Campfire reloading-Pics

[perry owens]

Had a monster casting session over the holidays and while clearing up I came upon this Ideal combination tool in 38-40.

I bought it when I got my Winchester 1873 but had forgotten all about it. Don't how old it is but the patent date is 1884. Apart from the decapper plug being missing, as usual, it seemed to be in working order so I thought I would try some old-time reloading.

Front to back: bullet sizer die, primer tool, decapper/bullet seater/crimper, mould.

Buffalo chips not being common on the grasslands of southern England, I settled on charcoal for my lead smelting, using a cast iron lead pot and a ladle made from an old spoon. Bullets cast at 0.404 diameter with an average weight of 167.4grains and a standard deviation of 0.14 grains. I hand lubed them with mutton tallow and passed them through the sizer die. They came out at .401

Here they are on the left, compared to the 187 grain Big-Lube bullets that are the normal fodder for my1873 - it has a pitted bore that fouls up with BP in about 3 shots but it shoots really well with a Big-Lube on top of 35 grains of 777.
The mould halves do not fit too well so there is a flash on the side of the bullet thats easy to get off. More serious was some slight damage to the edges of the mould that caused rough edges to the base of the bullet, which I thought might lead to gas cutting.Also I found that the pin that pushes the bullet through the sizer die makes a small off-center dimple in the base of the bullet - not conducive to good accuracy.

I used Starline cases, fireformed in my 1873. I flared the case mouth on the outside taper of the seater die, added 35grains of FFFG from a dipper, slipped it into the seater die and squeezed the handles shut. The result was not half bad although the crimp was very light and could not be increased as far as I could see.

Here they are ready to go, with my standard Big-Lube load in the background.

Went off to the range this morning. Temperature 30F, wind gusting to 20mph, 3in of old snow on the ground.
Much as I would like to report a happy ending it was not to be...........

The first shot went where I expected but from then on it was all downhill. With Big-Lubes and 777 my old 1873 shoots 1.5 - 2in groups at 50 metres but then those rounds are loaded on a Rockchucker using RCBS dies and a factory crimp die, also weighed charges and batched bullets. Maybe I was expecting too much for a 120 year old gun and tool?
Not to worry though, I have a similar tool for my 40-65 Winchester 1886 so will give that a go when the weather improves.
Perry Owens

[Old Savage]

Impressive.

[RIHMFIRE]

love those old guns.....
great post....

[kimwcook]

Good show. Really appreciated that. Seems like your tool has seen better days (tighter dimensions). Can't wait for the second one.

[Nath]

Thats really impressive Perry, thanks for sharing that.
I feel it was a success really when considering the tool. It would of still put a rabbit in the pot for you (or other)

Nath.

[JReed]

I dont know with the wind being as you say and the fact that you are using a new load I would say not to bad. I think you could can fine tune that load and have it shoot well. Perhaps a grease cookie or card wad will shrink that group up for ya.

[WCF3030]

Perhaps a grease cookie or card wad will shrink that group up for ya.

What JReed said.
I'm not a BPCR shooter by any means but I would certainly give a cookie a try before moving on.

[Nath]

Looking at the targ again it is saying something about how succesive shots have walked, means something but I'm not sure what hmmmm!

Nath.

[TedH]

I certainly wouldn't be disappointed with that group. Yes, there is room for improvement but that's not bad for your first try with the old tools. A little experimenting is in order I think.

[DBW]

As a newbie levergunner gaining interest in reloading, I'm intriqued by the process of loading with simple tools (though I'm still looking at more modern techniques). With that preface, here are my dumb newbie questions:

1 - can this be done in .30-30?
2 - are these tools available in this modern era?
3 - if yes to either above, where can I obtain these tools?

Thanks for posting this Perry.

[perry owens]

Dutch,
The modern equivalent is the Lyman 310 tool. You can get it in 30-30 from Buffalo Arms and many others
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1780.html
They are not quite the same as the old tools as they use detachable dies but they work really well. I don't think you can get one with an integral bullet mould though.
Old reloading tools are still quite common and not overly expensive. They make a neat accessory for an old gun.
Perry Owens

[DBW]

Thanks Perry. That link gives me a starting point.

edit: ordered the 310 Handles and .30-30 dies

[Malamute]

I would make a couple suggestions for the next batch.


Have you slugged the bore of the rifle to see what the exact groove diameter is?

Try not sizing the bullets, and see if that helps, also, how hard is the lead alloy? With black, it should be fairly soft. The factory rounds from back in the day used swaged lead bullets, very soft.


I believe Elmer Keith wrote of the sizing hole in the Ideal tools rarely being round.

[perry owens]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I use wads, scrubbers and grease cookies in all my other black powder rifles but for this experiment I did not want to use anything that might not be available to the average farmer or ranchhand of the 1880s. I may try to tidy the mould up a bit or at least use a card wad to protect the bullet base.
Malamute - I have not slugged the bore but the rifle performs well with modern .401 bullets. I used pure lead for casting but I will try unsized bullets as you suggest.
Perry Owens

[rjohns94]

PO, I really enjoyed that post. I have two tools like that, 45-70 and .357, I haven't tried either. You have motivated me to try.

[Griff]

Perry,
Really great to see ya posting again. It appears you made it thru the delay in getting yer shooting irons and equipment from the impound. Although it would be almost criminal to alter that tool, is the misalignment due to wear on the pivot? Maybe a bushing would tighten up the tool and allow a smooth bullet outta the mold and help with any issues alignment of the tool halves.

Once again, good to see ya, and kudos for attempting to bring the old tool to life.

[O.S.O.K.]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing that. Perhaps a load with the Tiple 7 will do better? Maybe with a vegetable fiber wad between charge and bullet? I bet if you worked on it a bit, you could make it shoot as well as the other...

[Sixgun]

Perry, neat story. Thanks for sharing. I too, have the exact loading tool you have in the same caliber. I cast bullets up with it and when I'm feeling nostalgic, I shoot them in a Colt Lightning. ------------Sixgun

[KirkD]

Perry, that was very good reading. I especially congratulate you for doing your casting at a campfire. I imagine it is a bit more challenging to keep the melt temperature at the right level.

[PaperPatch]

Excellent range report!!!

That looks like a 4 inch group at 50 meters, with a stray I'd disregard.
I would not feel safe; hiding behind that target!

That you cast those bullets Perry, in the old world method with original tooling...is true craftmanship.

Superb!!!