bad experience with .45-70

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:51 am

If you are getting blowback around a case on a black powder load in the .45-70, you are doing something seriously wrong. I have never seen this happen in any rifle.

The black powder usually is sufficient to seal the chamber very well.

I have seen this phenominon with .45 Colt modern brass fired with black in a levergun, but it just does not work that way with the .45-70.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:52 am

Scott Young wrote:well my theory is the projectiles are at fault. the leverlution with testimony of several men who know their stuff was an abysmal failure. it didn't penetrate when it hit bone or hard muscle. this is indisputable as the proof was visible to all. the second incident, was the hollow point. this bullet has a cavity that i could swim in. heck i may just install a diving board and prepare for some summer fun. i am sure this bullet was a failure. i will put them to the test and write it up if any is interested.

now as for the future of this round. i am planing on using a 400-500 grain lead bullet. the jury is still out on the black powder, but ScottT has put an itch in me from all the posts about kate. i have found it fascinating to learn more about bp cartridges. i know i will at least have some bp rounds. i am also planing on using this rifle as a starter for my son. i have a .35 remington that i loaded some soft loads using the 158 lead bullets. they are sitting on top of a smidgen of powder, and have enough speed to pass through a deer at 75 yards. the beauty of it is they don't kick. i am planning doing the same with the .45-70. i will work up some loads using soft lead bullets on the heavy side and push them fast enough to kill, but slow enough not to kick you like a mule. i am sorta hoping i will get my .35 back cause my son has claimed it as his own. he just turned eight and has claimed my .22 mag, .35 remington, and my .410. isn't life great when your kids lay claim to your passions.

now a question for ScottT. have you ever used bp substitutes? the only way i can get bp is through the mail. i will be ordering some soon, but in the mean time i have several pounds of triple 7 fff.

I tried Pyrodex one time and was quite disappointed with it. I have never used any other black powder substitute. I like the real thing just fine.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:48 pm

Good ole interesting reading this, Give me Jerry's patched ball over the 30 carbine any day but I'm sure if I had to use the carbine I could make it work

My sidexside 12g on pyro does get a little soot on the breech face but it's no trouble. A damp patch and then olive oil soon sorts it. Alot of folk miss out alot when they are in denial about B powder

I was part of two teams of guns last week end shooting game birds and I was the only feller using pyro loads and the gun and I were the center of attention some what

Dear ScottT have you ever tried in Miss Kate a pure lead 525grn? Would it work with good lube at your speeds and say a greased cookie?
Nath.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:58 pm

I've never understood why anyone would use hollow point ammo on something they want to eat. I forbade my kids from using hp ammo on game. Fine for destroying varmits you won't eat, or for social occasions where you want shallow massive wounds. But I don't see the application for food. If it's ever the exactly right choice for something you want to eat, I'm curious when that is..,

Grizz

L.F.Combs · Post by **L.F.Combs** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:48 pm

How sure are you of the distance? I had a porblem like this with some reloads I made using Speer hollow points. If you used them within 35 yards the bullets would splatter almost, but out at 100 + yards fine. I reduced the charge a little, and it improved. The Hornady ammo runs at about 2050 fps at muzzle. I have never been a real fan of tipped bullets like this, but I have used the .30-30 Hornady leverevolutions and they work good. I have never used them in my .45-70. I may try htem to see what I get. One good bullet for the .45-70 is the partitions.

omgb · Post by **omgb** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:54 pm

I've used Pyrodex with uneven results. The accuracy was not as good as with pure BP but the fouling does not build up and it does clean best with warm water just like BP. If were all I had, I'd use it but otherwise, no, I prefer BP.

Triple 7 was an interesting test. The velocity and pressure were much greater than BP. I could easily get an additional 200 fps maybe even 300 fps using a full load of T7. Clean up was with water alone and it worked well. There was no initial fouling to note but ..... a ring of white crud gradually built up in the throat. Never enought to interfere with loading but it was there none the less. Since it costs as much as smokeless and since Pyro and BP it is corrosive to the bore ( They say it isn't but it is, just ask those who have used it a while) I see no reason from my end to keep on using it.

For my 45-90 I use 6 gr. of RL7 topped with about 78 grains of GOEX cartridge (depending on the bullet). I get no fouling build up, good velocity, mild pressure and excellent accuracy. it's perfect for my needs.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:21 pm

Maybe it's a Hornady thing.

The only bullet I've ever had "fail" was a very early 130-gr. SST out of my .270 WCF that vaporized inside a doe at about 100 yards. Maybe Hornady should leave the polymer tips to Nosler.

When in doubt: Real bullets don't wear plastic tips!

scott

SR James · Post by **SR James** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:26 pm

In the past two years my hunting partner and I have taken 4 deer with 45-70s loaded with black powder and one with a .45-75 loaded with 777. Bullets were 385gr cast RN (2 deer), Lyman Gould 300gr cast HP (2 deer) and a Sierra 300gr JHP. All were one shot kills. All but one were dropped where they stood, the other one was shot through the heart and did the typical 50yd mad dash before dropping.

And I'll second Scott T's statement that a proper bp load doesn't deposit a lot of fouling in the action.

Hey, Scott, I see you know Bill Bagwell.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:29 pm

sometimes an animal just won't die. there are acconts on record of one shot stops on kodiak bear from a .22lr. a missionary in africa shot a lion with a .22 savage hi-power arounnd the turn of the century. innuit eskimos shot walruses and polar bears with .222 rem. i've seen small doe doe run maybe 100yds. after a solid hit from a .338 win mag. witnessed a large buck shot with a .36 pistol , at at stepped off 86yrds., drop as if the world was jerked out from under it. what does my ramblings mean? how do i know?