Long Range Pistol Work

[JimT]

I know that there are quite a few of you on this Forum that have done long-range sixgunning. But we also have some newer folks on here so I thought I would start this out. It is aimed at those who have not yet tried shooting long distances. Looking at some videos on the internet it would seem that most consider 100 or 150 yards as "long range" ... but what I am referring to is 400 yards and further. I know that is hard to do for a lot of shooters simply because they do not live where it is possible. But .. it is possible if you visit Raton, New Mexico and The NRA Whittington Center. We shoot handguns there out to better than a thousand yards. Special handguns for that, of course. But I regularly shoot 300 to 500 yards with my old open-sight .44 Special sixgun.

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This teenage girl was shooting her Grandpa's pistol at a target over 1100 yards away.

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The target is in the "v" between the peaks on the right and left, under the white cloud.

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I grew up not knowing that handguns were only for short range shooting. It wasn't until I was in my middle teen years that I found out! When I was a kid I regularly watched my Dad shoot his old 1917 S&W .45 at distances to 400 yards. He had a standing bet with other shooters in the area that he could hit a target the size of a house door with at least 3 shots out of 5 at that distance. And it wasn't until I was in the US Army and went East of the Mississippi River that I understood that a lot of gun people did not think that could be done.

The issue was that I grew up in Eastern Washington State. It is an area with around 6 inches of rain a year. It is dry-land farming. And the soil is largely volcanic ash. When it has been plowed and a disc run through it, if you walk across it your footsteps sink in at least several inches. Like walking through flour. You can see a .22 Long Rifle bullet strike nearly a mile away. It is easy to “walk” your shots onto target at extremely long distances.

This is an aerial photo of part of my Grandpa's Ranch where I spent a lot of my boyhood. The house stood about where the metal tractor shed is.

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It is great country to do long-range work in!

When I was about 11 we moved to Arizona. The Sonoran Desert country is also great for long-range shooting. You can see your bullet strike and adjust your shots accordingly. And as I said, when I was shipped to Alabama I understood why quite a few people did not believe you could do accurate long-range pistol work. All that grass, brush, trees, weeds AND humidity! You were lucky to see a bullet strike at 25 yards.

This was my Long Range Pistol Range near Oracle, Arizona

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I had a 16” truck rim hanging on a tripod at 400 yards. From a sitting position with the gun held in two hands between my knees I often rang that truck rim with at least 3 out of 5 shots, using my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt and heavy handloads.

We shot various guns and loads there over the years. I had friends who were rifle shooters who came and shot. Some got discouraged. Others took the challenge and learned what they needed to do it. Not very many sixgunners spent time on it though a few did.

The key to shooting accurately at long range is to learn how to use the sights properly.

A standard sight picture looks something like this:

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In a standard sight picture this is a “6 o'clock hold” .. the sights centered, the target on top of the front sight.

A long-range sight picture looks something like this:

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The target is still on top of the front sight, but the rear sight is lowered (or you can say “the front sight is raised” .. same thing). With practice you learn how much front sight has to be above the rear to get the bullet “on” at that distance.

With practice (shooting lots of ammo) you will learn how much sight to hold up at extreme ranges and your first shot will be close if not on. It requires shooting in a place where you can safely shoot to long distances. And shooting a lot!

The reason for having the target on top of the front sight is this: If you are shooting at game, you want to keep the animal in sight at all times. If you raise the gun up over the animal you cannot see if it moves, turns, lays down or stands up and gives you “the finger”! To make a clean shot you need to keep it in view at all times.

If you are shooting targets, you want to be able to see where the miss went if you miss it. That will tell you where and how to hold for the next shot. After you practice this for awhile you will be amazed at how close your first shot will be and how often the first shot it on target.

You do not need a really high-powered gun to shoot long range. If you have never tried it, and if you are where you can see the bullets strike, a .22 rimfire can be used to shoot extremely long distances.

In it all, have fun and enjoy yourself. This is not something you need to stress about. It should be enjoyable and can be an excellent entertainment with family and friends.

[Bronco]

I cannot remember who it was I was reading about, maybe Elmer that they had several horizontal lines across the ramp of the front site for different distances! I can see how it would be used in your long range site picture. Hmmm, maybe a project might be coming up for my Redhawk ??

[JimT]

I cannot remember who it was I was reading about, maybe Elmer that they had several horizontal lines across the ramp of the front site for different distances! I can see how it would be used in your long range site picture. Hmmm, maybe a project might be coming up for my Redhawk ??

My Linebaugh .45 has that ...

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[AJMD429]

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Definitely the problem for me would be the sights. Theoretically, the only 'issue' per se with a shorter barrel is that it may compromise 'sight radius', but that can often be overcome with ingenuity or technology. Otherwise, the maximum velocity for a given cartridge will be less with a handgun-length barrel, but accuracy isn't necessarily impaired by the lesser velocity (in fact NOT having to endure the turbulence of transitioning to sub-mach-one velocity may be a benefit).

So the only 'other' issue is "Can you hold the gun still enough for hits..???" - but clearly many folks have mastered that, and do well.

Bottom line - there isn't really anything 'fundamentally' preventing handguns from being used for long range shooting, other than our innate psychology and the inner voice that says "No way you can do that...!" The videos we see of folks using SBR's to hit at long distances prove that the barrel length per se is not prohibiting hits at several hundred yards with fairly ordinary handguns.

When I've tried long range shooting with a handgun, the biggest 'problem' is just like when I shoot long range with a rifle - the SIGHTS...!

I like pretty high magnification on all my guns when able/appropriate, because I just don't have good enough vision to see the stuff others seem to see. Friends will use a 4x scope at 300 yards to hit something as big as a soda can, and I literally cannot even SEE the soda can at that magnification; I'll want a 20x where they settle for a 4x. But..........if the sights are good enough to enable me to actually SEE the target, I'm pretty good at figuring the rest (holdover, windage, etc.).

The only handgun I really can manage with a magnifying optic is my Contender pistol, though, and to shoot it at all well, it really needs a 'rest' or better yet, a bipod, and at that point, it is really a 'handgun' or just a really short and light rifle...?

But I've developed a fondness for 'aperture' sights on HANDGUNS as well as rifles, and the 'aperture' can be an iron sight (I have a Williams aperture rear sight on a couple semiauto pistols, Ruger replacement blades for their six-shooter's rear sight that are 'ghost ring' apertures, and a few other improvised and hand-made setups like that. The front sights for those setups are either fiber-optic beads, fine 1/16" brass beads, or even hand-made front apertures made from a drilled-out and smoothed roll-pin). A non-magnifying 'red dot' sight seems to work well for long-range handgunning IF the view is clear and bright enough to see things without magnification, and the dot is tiny - or better yet, you sometimes have the option of substituting some kind of illuminated circle or other reticle versus just a dot (that might be too big or bright and obscure the target).

I think if the sight makers can keep improving irons, optics, and electronic sights with the goal in mind of helping handgunners do better long range shooting, we will see things improve dramatically.

[Griff]

I had the pleasure to shoot at a range in Orange County, CA, (for a while the site of the OC Sheriff's Dept range), and get to know the Range Master there, only by the name "Charlie". He had a manhole cover up the side of the hill @ 500 yards. It was a public range, and often shooters would complain about the daily fee. He'd bet them the price of admission that he could hit that gong with his old GI 1911. If he did hit, they'd pay & never bug him about the price again. I never saw him miss. We were discussing his unorthodox way of shutting up complainers and he told me that he could have me hitting that gong within 5 shots with my 63 cal. muzzle-loader and it's primitive sights. I'd only ever shot it at 50 & 100 yards. I hadn't complained about the price, but had shot against him with my 1911 for score @ 25 yards on a slow day. He was right and explained much the same thing. A hit on the 3rd shot. Sad to say, I never tried it with my 1911. Especially after he explained that with the short GI sights on a 1911 that method wouldn't work... he just knew what bush to aim at! A sad day when the range at Jeffrey Road got closed down. All of that area is now track homes. Gone is the El Toro Marine Air Station, Irvine Ranch Cattle headquarters, Jeffrey Road Range...

[Malamute]

Good fun.

I had read much Keith stuff when young and put it to use when I got to Az and had space to actually use it. 300 yards was the most I normally shot with pistol, in the Rockies I fell in with several longer distance shooters of carry guns, it was pretty common and accepted. One handed shooting was also fairly common, with some truly outstanding practitioners. I was inspired to shoot mostly one handed for most of the past 25 or so years, and mostly 200-300 yards. When shooting two handed or closer it seems like cheating. Similar for rifles, shooting mostly offhand, as its hardest, makes using a rest or kneeling seem like cheating. The 600 yard plate wasnt that difficult to hit with 4x in a bolt 308 with cheap surplus ammo.

I only tried the 24" 600 yard plate once, I happened to have a g-19 in hand, and someone with a scope to spot and call shots. In 10 rds i managed to hit it once. Might be easier after getting the range sorted out. I did in fact cheat and kneel using two hands.

Most people can be coached into making hits very quickly once the sighting is understood. 22s are great for general practice at distance so long as the ground shows hits.

[Pat C]

Jim , how do know where hits are at that distance. Video camera near by target? Only handgun Ive ever owned I would attempt it would have been my 35 Remington 14" TC contender with 7 x scope.

[JimT]

We had no video cameras in the 1960's when I started long distance handgunning. Like the people in the early days, you watched where your bullet hit and adjusted. My Great-Uncle shot a bandit off a buggy at better than 400 yards using his old 30-30. The buggy was moving across in front of him at the time, down in a valley. He held on them and saw how far behind the bullet hit. Then he started shooting holding in front of them. It took him 5 or 6 shots but he got on them.

On my grandpa's Ranch there were some old vehicles that had been stripped and left on the hills from 200 yards out to near 400. We would shoot at those. If your shot was too high it went over and if too low it went under. You can easily see a .22 Long Rifle strike at those distances. If you hit it you heard it.

On my Long Range in Arizona it was the same. You could see if you were high, low, left or right. If you hit the truck rim you heard it and saw the rims swing.

[AmBraCol]

Long range can be relative. I like to stretch out the Baikal IZH46M to 50 meters, although it's been quite a while since I did that. Years ago I got a group of about an inch at that distance, doubt I could equal that today. I was holding just about the entire barrel up in the rear sight and placing the front sight on the top of the cardboard backer on the 50 meter range. The pellets grouped on the bottom right corner and barely penetrated the first layer of the corrugated cardboard. Wish I had a pick of that group. It was an absolutely still day, not a bit of breeze at all. Here in Coffee Country we get too much rain usually to allow for spotting shots way out yonder, but there's one pond on the gun club property I like to use for plinking with the Crosman 2240. I can get over 100 yards and easily spot the impacts around the lily pads. Seeing where you're hitting is crucial to the ability to hit what you're aiming at! Looking forward to getting back out to the Whittington one of these years.

[Pat C]

I guess it has to be a very dusty bare dirt climate to see bullet report. Even with a spotter it would be a challenge. I guess with some figuring keep stepping back to track trajectory.

[JimT]

I guess it has to be a very dusty bare dirt climate to see bullet report. Even with a spotter it would be a challenge. I guess with some figuring keep stepping back to track trajectory.

In Eastern Washington when growing wheat - oats - barley - etc. the use of the ground is rotated. It is dry-land farming. So crops are grown one year. Then the stubble is plowed under, a disc run over it and it sits for a year. Called "fallow" ground. The soil is volcanic ash and when you walk across fallow ground it is like walking through flour. Your feet sink into it. A .22 Long Rifle bullet at 400 yards is easy to see with the naked eye. It will produce a large dust cloud more than 3 feet high .. often twice that. Shooting my old 1886 .45-70 with 400 gr. bullets, you could easily see the bullet strikes at a half mile.

In the photo of my Grandpa's ranch in the original post above, I would shoot from about where the metal tractor shed is toward the dark bluffs that are about a 45 degree left upper, and could easily call the hits, when it was fallow like the ground at the bottom of the photo.

[AmBraCol]

Empty, plowed, fallow fields are great for walking shots onto a target. Up in NW CO one year we were invited out to a family's place. We ended up on the deck, shooting out at random weeds in an empty field. It was the first time I got to try my 3" Taurus 44 spl past "normal" ranges. Once I got the sight picture dialed in to my brain I had no trouble keeping shots on a tumbleweed growing out around 250-300 yards or so. Not the same soil as the north west corner of the country, but dry and dusty is dry and dusty and makes for great shooting opportunities as long as there's a safe direction and a decent landscape feature to aim at. I shoot a lot of paper/cardboard here simply because it's the only way to track projectile impacts. Green and muddy just doesn't cut it for light calibers.