1892 44-40 jacketed HP loads

[mickbr]

Wondering if Brian Austin might still frequent these forums or if anyone else would know. Load data to duplicate the old 44-40 hi power loads which I recall was with 200grsin bullets. I recall Brian I think saying the originals could still be loaded with jacketed but not sure if there was a proviso for being after a certain year of manufacture. Would 2400 powder fit the bill?

[Bryan Austin]

Wondering if Brian Austin might still frequent these forums or if anyone else would know.

I am here!

Load data to duplicate the old 44-40 hi power loads which I recall was with 200grsin bullets.

technically they were not "high power" loads, just High Velocity loads. That may sound moot, but there was a big difference in terminology back then. The High Power loads had to do with high pressures (special steel barrels), while High Velocity loads were still "Low Pressure" loads...although not suitable for weak action rifles nor for use in revolvers.

I recall Brian I think saying the originals could still be loaded with jacketed but not sure if there was a proviso for being after a certain year of manufacture.

There was never any literature from Winchester about not using such H.V. loads....specifically made for the 92'....in older 92's. The H.V. loads were introduced in 1903, ten years after the first 92'. Winchester called the first HV loads "Model 92' Specials".

1909 10-9 HV a.png

Would 2400 powder fit the bill?

Winchester's Cartridge Engineering Department's load data shows that the 44-40 High Velocity loads had a service pressure of 18,000cup and created velocities of 1,564fps. When I pressure tested replicated loads using original Sharpshooter smokeless powder, the results were shocking... 19.6gr of Sharpshooter powder, and a 200gr .4255" Winchester JSP bullet, produced 1,568fps and 15,583psi (18,420cup). That result solidified my pressure testing accuracy.

Replicating such loads is tricky for several reasons...PRESSURE is number one....with velocity being a fixed byproduct...meaning YOU CAN NOT LOAD THE 44-40 BASED ON VELOCITY!

• 1. Bullet Diameter and design - The Control - .4255" JSP bullets being used in original bores that could be as small as .4225".... (.003").
  2. Bore diameter - see above
  3. powder burn rate - slower burning rifle powders were used, not faster burning pistol powders (2400 is a slower burning rifle powder)

Lyman's 51st manual shows some pressures exceeding Winchester's 18,000cup.

Lyman's 49th lists pressures up to 19,600cup with a 200gr Speer #4425 JHP @ 1,638fps with 20gr of 2400
Lyman's 51st lists pressures up to 19,600cup with a 200gr Speer #4427 JHP @ 1,638fps with 20gr of 2400. I highly doubt they retested this load using the new bullet.
My test results - 20gr of 2400, using a 200 JHP Speer #4425 resulted in a velocity of 1,672 @ 15,618 psi (18,461cup)

No other powders, Unique nor IMR-4227 created replicated velocities over 1,282 fps and 1,485 fps under 19,600cup pressures. (...meaning YOU CAN NOT LOAD THE 44-40 BASED ON VELOCITY!)

Results using lead bullets (427098) used only fast burning pistol powders of which I highly discourage using.

• Red Dot/1,290/21,900
  Green Dot/1,340/19,300
  Unique/1,410/19,700

THUS, 2400 would probably best replicates Winchester's original 1,564fps, Model 92 High Velocity loads using jacketed bullets .003 larger than the bore diameter.