Heavy "444" bullets

[AJMD429]

I have wondered what number should go in this blank spot...

For .510" bullets, up to 700 grain is available
For .458" bullets, up to 600 grain is available
For .446" bullets, up to 500 grain is available
For .430" bullets, up to ___ grain is available
For .410" bullets, up to 450 grain is available
For .375" bullets, up to 360 grain is available

If you extrapolate, in the .430" category, there SHOULD be bullets available between 450 and 500 grains, which would vastly improve the possibilities of the .444 Marlin cartridge.

The biggest I've seen, however is 300 grain. Is there a reason? If a 1/20" twist can stabilize a 600 grain .458" bullet, a 1/20" twist should stabilize bullets well past 400 grains in the .430" diameter. The case size of the .444 seems big enough to hold enough powder to push such a slug downrange reasonably quickly.

I know that a 450 grain .430" bullet at maybe 1600-1700 fps wouldn't be much different/better than a 450 grain .458" bullet at similar velocity, but since the pointy-cartridge folks have their "short," "ultra-short," and "really, really short" ultra-magnums , I guess I want to play the "do it with another cartridge" game too!

[Blaine]

Grizz is loading and shooting a CP (I think) 405gr in his RedHawk........It's not so much not being able to go big, but most .429 based arms are not built to handle the size (length) of the ammo with that long of a bullet...and you already mentioned the twist.....

[Old Savage]

I think you would start to use up too much powder space to stay under 2.55" OAL.

[LET-CA]

The Lyman 429650 mould will drop bullets out at 330 grains, but as noted above, you have to seat them deeply in a 444 case to maintain the maximum length for reliable feeding in a levergun.

[Old Savage]

To my view a 300 gr is optimum for a 444 in a lever gun. If you want more bullet weight jump to a 45-70 and then 400 is nice but heavier is available from the specialty loaders but expensive.

[WCF3030]

Maybe this guy could set you up.
http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/
Although I don't see 44 cal listed.

[k8bor]

Beartooth has a 405 grainer for sale on its website.

[Hobie]

There are heavy .44 bullets (depending on specific diameter) but the .444 requires 1. a crimping point at a certain point to maintain COL (OldSavage is right) and 2. MOST .444 rifles have the old 1-38 twist. Some folks report that these will stabilize 325 gr. but many have problems with bullets over 300 gr.

It seems to me that the original concept for the .444 was to use the .30-06 case head, add a rim and produce a modern express cartridge. The .429" bore gave the companies involved certain production economies.

With a barrel having an appropriate twist rate and properly designed bullets of the same weight the .444 should have a slight edge in external and terminal ballistics over the .45-70.

[Glen]

Alpha LaFranck makes some heavyweight .430" spitzers that I have shot out of my .444 Marlin Contender and they shot just fine, showing that the 1 in 20" twist will stabilize these long bullets just fine. The heaviest I shot was 375 grains. Being spitzers, they are not suitable for the Marlin levergun, but these are the heaviest .430" diameter bullets that I know of.

[Idiot]

If you extrapolate, in the .430" category, there SHOULD be bullets available between 450 and 500 grains, which would vastly improve the possibilities of the .444 Marlin cartridge.

I'm not sure how a slow moving 450 grain bullet would improve the effectiveness of the 444 Marlin when compared to a fast moving 300 grain hard cast flap point bullet. There is a point where too much weight becomes a velocity liability and the result is poor trajectory and poor penetration. If you push an appropriate 300 grain bullet at a decent velocity it will completely penetrate just about anything in North America. And I'm not sure the animal being skewered will know the diameter difference .029" makes (444M v 45/70G).

I'd rather move up in cartridge size, say to a 45/70G, if I need mental and gut assurance that the game animal I hunt and the situation I hunt in requires a bullet with more weight.

I suggest you add in that empty line 300 grains.

[AJMD429]

I suggest you add in that empty line 300 grains.

Yeah, and if I ever get a .444, that's likely what I'll do, if nothing else because it will be easier to get hold of 300 grain bullets. It does seem funny though that the bullets for .430 are so unusually light vs. the nearby diameter ones.

I'll bet it is a commie plot to render all the .444's nothing but powder wasting varmint-guns, so we'll all go out and get .45-70's.

Of course the best idea is to get both!

[k8bor]

Beartooth shows a 405 gr. bullet handloaded at over 1850 fps with a 22" barrel and RL-7. No slouch there.

FYI - Buffalo Bore lists a .45-70 - 430 gr. LBT @ 1,925 fps for one of their penetrator loads for game up to 2,500 lbs.

I'd be willing to bet there's very little difference in terminal field performance between the two.

Bad dudes, both of 'em. You pick.

[Harry O]

I don't have a .444 so you can take or leave what I am going to say. I have always read that the Marlin .444 cannot take over 300gr because of the rifling twist. It is too slow to handle heavier bullets.

I have a 45-70 with a slower than normal "express" rifling twist, about the same as the .444. It handles 300gr bullets beautifully. 405gr bullets are marginal. 500gr bullets keyhole.

[k8bor]

All the .444's now have the faster twist with the ballard rifling. Mine is about 5 years old with the faster twist.

I don't know exactly when they dropped the micro-groove.

[dawei]

All the .444's now have the faster twist with the ballard rifling. Mine is about 5 years old with the faster twist.

I don't know exactly when they dropped the micro-groove.

1999

[k8bor]

There you go, everything in the last 9 years will send 405 grainers down range accurately.

Thank you dawei.

[AJMD429]

Beartooth shows a 405 gr. bullet handloaded at over 1850 fps with a 22" barrel and RL-7. No slouch there.

Is the comment on their website about fine in "neck-turned" .444 cases due to the thicker case wall impinging on the bullet or causing bulged cases?

[k8bor]

Good point.

I can't answer that. I often wonder because in the articles I have read about loading that particular bullet, none of them even mention neck turning the cases. It seems that if that were the case, the situation would get more attention than it does.

I think I'll email Marshall and ask him.