Gas Piston vs Springer

[Blaine]

Air rifles...Pro/Con... Go

[Rusty]

There's a FB group, "Airgun chat & BS." You might want join up. I just kind of sit back and watch the fun.

[AJMD429]

Shucks; I thought this was going to a fun rehash on AR-15 types...

My real reason for posting is so I can more easily follow this thread though, because it asks a question I also am interested in. I have my eye on one of those scuba-tank charged 44 caliber ones with 45 ACP ballistics.

[Tactical Lever]

Air rifles...Pro/Con... Go

Gas pistons do not fatigue, have a smoother shot cycle, and are quieter as a general rule.

For a con, I don't know. Harder to work on if that's your thing. I kind of like precharged pneumatics....

[PriseDeFer]

Pumping is a pain but a pumper is sure fine to shoot without that springer sensitivity to hold. Two pumps on the Benjiman 177 does for plinking, four for nasties.

[Old Ironsights]

PCPs & pumpers have been around longer than both, and are more effective in most cases.

I really, really want a modern Girandoni...

(some of the Air Force/Sam Yang/Hatsan PCPs come close... but in 1942...

Made in the 1940s during WW2, this gun doesn't look like a Girandoni, but examination shows that it clearly was built by someone familiar with the Girandoni repeating airgun system. Purchased in Europe, the story is that this gun was built somewhere in occupied Europe by a partisan bicycle maker during the Nazi occupation in WW2 . (Originally we suspected that the maker was in Austria but an Austrian friend pointed out that there really wasn't any resistance movement in Austria - most Austrians still considered Germany and Austria as a single unit, as it had been in the past, and actually welcomed the Nazi troops when they occupied the country, virtually without force.) The repeating magazine is spring fed and on the left side of the barrel, for the convenient use of a right handed shooter. The gun was charged with the accompanying bicycle type pump. Smoothbore, as would be expected, but firing a 11 3/4 mm lead ball (.464" caliber) (the very same caliber as the original Girandoni Austrian military repeating air rifles!), this would have been a fearsome weapon against sentries, drivers, military leaders, etc. at ranges up to perhaps 100 yards. To a freedom fighter, the lower discharge sound and the lack of flash or smoke would have been huge values. And it did not need powder, primers, or bullets - only easily cast lead or soft-metal balls! The builder surely drew his inspiration from a museum, or even just a book, which displayed a Girandoni system airgun. The excellent quality reflects the experience of a perfectionist bicycle maker with considerable time on his hands - consistent with such a craftsman in an occupied area.

Note that this gun has a spring fed magazine, rather than the gravity fed magazine of the original Girandoni military air rifle. While a gravity feed mechanism might be simpler, and even more dependable, the spring fed magazine has great advantages for the purposes of this gun. It is more suited for operation from a vehicle or firing slot where it would be impractical to tip up the rifle for loading and it allows firing with minimal motion at the firing point - very important to a sniper.

Why would a modern sniper want a functional version of an ancient airgun when automatic weapons were as close as the first German soldier that could be waylaid? The answer dramatically comes from the above notes and the fact that an American maker is now doing a small, but excellent, business supplying coalition troops in the near East with high power 9mm repeating PCP air rifles, complete with silencers and nightsights. Unlike a firearm, such a weapon, without sound, flash, or smoke, does not attract return fire - esp. in reduced light situations - the deadly projectile just seems to come from no-where!

Basic specs: A husky 12.2 lbs., 45" overall, glare-free, w/ almost camo anodized type finish.

[Blaine]

I also have an old Sheridan (when they were made by the original company) that I'm considering having the thing rebuilt with the good trigger, sights, and EZ pumping mechanism.

[Old No7]

Gas pistons do not fatigue, have a smoother shot cycle, and are quieter as a general rule.

Funny, I had always heard the same thing... But...

But recently, my neighbor brought me over his Gamo "Bone Collector Bull Whisper" gas-piston .177 pellet rifle to try. Maybe it needs to be broken in some more, but when shot side-by-side to my Gamo "Shadow 1000" springer .177, mine was much quieter and more accurate (for both of us). His was, I'll admit, a little smoother, but not as "smooth" as I'd expected.

The extra blast from his shots could have been due to the higher velocity rating (as his was rated at 1300 fps), but it sure wasn't "quieter" than mine. It was noticeable louder. He was surprised, and I was too, as I'd been looking to make the change/upgrade to one of the "quiet" gas piston air rifles soon -- but now, I won't have to!?! Guess I'll keep my old springer after all.

All this said, if you can somehow, I'd strongly suggest you try out a couple of each design (side-by-side if you can), as that evening sure was an eye-opener for me.

Also, be sure to see the recent post about getting the best accuracy out of an air rifles that TedH started, as there was some good info in there about holding them.

Tight groups.

Old No7

[CowboyTutt]

My Mendoza springer can be fairly loud too because it uses dieseling of the lubrication oil to get its high velocities. The pellet goes supersonic, thus the noise. Thinking you are seeing the same phenomenon with your friend's rifle as 1300 fps is even faster then what I am seeing. Regards, -Tutt

P.S. Nice question Blaine. If money were no object I would go pre-charged as well but you need to purchase a scuba tank and have a local dive shop to refill your tank.

[Old Ironsights]

...
P.S. Nice question Blaine. If money were no object I would go pre-charged as well but you need to purchase a scuba tank and have a local dive shop to refill your tank.

Actually, better is to make friends with your local RFD/VFD and see if you can "acquire" a couple of SCBA tanks that are out of hydro. Most Departments these days run 4500psi tanks and can recharge them at will...

Love your Fire Guys, and get a little love in return...

[Blaine]

...
P.S. Nice question Blaine. If money were no object I would go pre-charged as well but you need to purchase a scuba tank and have a local dive shop to refill your tank.

Actually, better is to make friends with your local RFD/VFD and see if you can "acquire" a couple of SCBA tanks that are out of hydro. Most Departments these days run 4500psi tanks and can recharge them at will...

Love your Fire Guys, and get a little love in return...

In my mind's eye, I'm not dragging a tank around in the back of a 4WD....I'm grabbing it for a silent impromptu shot off the porch in a community that forbids outside shooting on the property...I nailed that coon a few months back with the little Crossman 760 and BB. We have coyotes coming thru every so often.

Actually, my model 72 with it's long barrel and CB longs is prolly quieter than the average airgun...

[elmo123]

I have a 5mm Sheridan that i replaced the seals in and installed a Williams receiver sight on and it shoots pretty good. I bought a new "Springer" a few years back and could not get used to the spring slamming forward when I pulled the trigger. I ended up giving it to my brother. Other than the fact that you have to pump it several times to fire it versus once for the Springer type I like the Sheridan better.

[BAGTIC]

Problem with gas pistons is that pressure will gradually diminish from peak right after pumping up.

[jnyork]

Here you go, http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... ody&c=AIAR

[Tactical Lever]

Gas pistons do not fatigue, have a smoother shot cycle, and are quieter as a general rule.

Funny, I had always heard the same thing... But...

But recently, my neighbor brought me over his Gamo "Bone Collector Bull Whisper" gas-piston .177 pellet rifle to try. Maybe it needs to be broken in some more, but when shot side-by-side to my Gamo "Shadow 1000" springer .177, mine was much quieter and more accurate (for both of us). His was, I'll admit, a little smoother, but not as "smooth" as I'd expected.

The extra blast from his shots could have been due to the higher velocity rating (as his was rated at 1300 fps), but it sure wasn't "quieter" than mine. It was noticeable louder. He was surprised, and I was too, as I'd been looking to make the change/upgrade to one of the "quiet" gas piston air rifles soon -- but now, I won't have to!?! Guess I'll keep my old springer after all.

All this said, if you can somehow, I'd strongly suggest you try out a couple of each design (side-by-side if you can), as that evening sure was an eye-opener for me.

Also, be sure to see the recent post about getting the best accuracy out of an air rifles that TedH started, as there was some good info in there about holding them.

Tight groups.


Old No7

What Tutt said. I tend to agree with his assessment of the supersonic pellet. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but given the same velocity the gas ram will probably be a little quieter.

I had a "big" .25 caliber springer, and tried the artillery hold. And I have to admit, I did not have much success. Purely my fault, but I did not see much advantage to mastering a springer, so I sold it. It was not very loud, and fired heavy pellets at a decent, but not earth shattering speed. Almost a CB cap power wise!

In it's stead I purchased a Benjamin discovery with pump, as a package. Much easier to scope and shoot with.

[Marvin S]

I gave up on spring guns a year ago and bought a Marauder PCP and sure aint looking back. It would be nice if Sharp or someone would bring the Sharp Innova back or a good quality multi pump. Lewis and Clark had PCP guns on their journey.

[Griff]

Shucks; I thought this was going to a fun rehash on AR-15 types...

+1. Just like there's no shortage of .22s at my place, since I don't have a .22 to shoot, I don't need any... I don't have an air rifle... but still wonder about the relative merits...

[Tactical Lever]

I gave up on spring guns a year ago and bought a Marauder PCP and sure aint looking back. It would be nice if Sharp or someone would bring the Sharp Innova back or a good quality multi pump. Lewis and Clark had PCP guns on their journey.

I remember reading about the Sharp Innova, never seen one in "person" though. Air rifles around where I lived were mostly relegated to a toy or beginner gun for youngsters.

I almost bought the Benjamin Sheridan 392 before I decided on the Discovery. I still may add one to my collection. Almost an honest 700 fps with a lead .22 pellet puts it in magnum territory, or at least respectable. I wanted a scope, though, and it sounded a little tougher to mount and a little more work to get one to shoot nice. But still an appealing little gun. I think that's probably the closest thing out there to the Innova right now, and for a reasonable price.

[octagon]

Andy, a friend has got several of the large caliber Quackenbush air rifles and says there is an air compressor that will fill em, but it is high dollar. He is getting into the air guns heavily, due to the fact that he goes back country in a Polaris all over the states and they are legal (air guns) just about everywhere. I think his latest is a .458

[Marvin S]

Andy, a friend has got several of the large caliber Quackenbush air rifles and says there is an air compressor that will fill em, but it is high dollar. He is getting into the air guns heavily, due to the fact that he goes back country in a Polaris all over the states and they are legal (air guns) just about everywhere. I think his latest is a .458

Shoe box air compressors can be had to fill them. The hand pump really aint to bad unless you going to shoot abunch. Im going to buy a tank and use nitrogen that I can fill at work to 4k psi.

[JB]

I have both. My issue with the gas piston is that we don't really know how long the cheap ones (I mean all the Chinese, Spanish, Russian, etc.) will last. Springs can break, but a good one should last for years and they aren't that expensive or hard to replace. I'm guessing a replacement gas piston for my cheap Benjamin Trail may cost as much as the rifle did. You can buy a quality German spring gun far cheaper than a quality Theoban gas piston gun.

[PriseDeFer]

My Chinese underlever steel spring springer, yes that one, is something like 30 years old. Still deadly.