Magnificent Seven Steve McQueen Shotgun

[FatJackDurham]

Here is a question I keep forgetting to ask around here.

In the Magnificent Seven, as Steve McQueen and Yul Brenner are riding the herse out of town, McQueen cracks open his side-by-side shotgun and the shells "eject" out, flying away.

Now, I always make it an a point to play with the old shotguns, crack them open to see if they "eject" instead of "extract". I haven't found one.

Were/are there side by sides that have a strong ejector, or was it an option on older guns? All the break open side by side shot guns I have seen have a slow ejector that pushs the the shells up, but doesn't eject them.

Someone school me here....

[gamekeeper]

The English gun maker W Greener was making side by side shotguns with ejectors in 1880, as were other English gunmakers. By 1890 they were becoming common on top quality shotguns although non ejectors were still made.

[Griff]

^^ There's the answer from an expert...

[Ysabel Kid]

^^ There's the answer from an expert...

+1

Of course, it could just be a matter of Hollywood not paying close attention to firearms to make sure they are period correct. Think of all the old flicks of the Civil War where they are using Colt SAA's? Even John Wayne was guilty!

[rossim92]

^^ There's the answer from an expert...

+1

Of course, it could just be a matter of Hollywood not paying close attention to firearms to make sure they are period correct. Think of all the old flicks of the Civil War where they are using Colt SAA's? Even John Wayne was guilty!

You better believe it mister! or you're dead where you stand.

[gamekeeper]

Well I don't know about expert but I have been around a lot of English shotguns over the years.
In America The LeFever Arms Co NY were making side by side shotguns with automatic ejectors in the 1880s or 1890s, I have never had the pleasure of seeing a LeFever shotgun but I have worked on some beautiful Parkers, some of which were offered with ejectors back in the late 19th century.

[octagon]

GK were you pretty excited when auto ejectors first came out?

[Pete44ru]

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FWIW, every double gun that I know of, with the ejector (ILO extractor-only) option, will only eject fired shells, and not unfired ones - unlike many single-barreled specimens, which will automatically eject whatever's in the chamber (fired or not) when broken open.


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[gamekeeper]

GK were you pretty excited when auto ejectors first came out?

Yup but I ain't going to buy a gun with 'em till I'm sure they're not just a passing fad!...

[FatJackDurham]

My local gun store that has lots of old stuff had a hand full of old side by sides, but non of them ejected.

Now,if they only eject fired, that must mean the mechanism is somehow tied to the firing pin springs and such so that if the gun is still charged, the extracter spring stays bound.

Id like to see that mechanism. The only two active ejectors I have seen are the Trapdoor, which works on a coiled spring and plunger, and a cam. The other is the Rolling Block No. 5 which is a rotary gam and spring.

[Griff]

I looked up the answer to a similar question on the SASS Wire a few years back... and found the patent date for auto-ejectors was far earlier than I'd ever suspected. In the US it was patented by DM LeFever, who also patented the first self-cocking shotgun with internal hammers.

[gamekeeper]

My local gun store that has lots of old stuff had a hand full of old side by sides, but non of them ejected.

Now,if they only eject fired, that must mean the mechanism is somehow tied to the firing pin springs and such so that if the gun is still charged, the extracter spring stays bound.

Id like to see that mechanism. The only two active ejectors I have seen are the Trapdoor, which works on a coiled spring and plunger, and a cam. The other is the Rolling Block No. 5 which is a rotary gam and spring.

If you google Southgate Ejectors there is a full description by Hallowell & Co that explains it far better than I can.

[FatJackDurham]

Thanks, Gamekeeper. They only mention two types. I wonder if that means these could be custom added to guns after the fact, or if they guns had to be designed that way.

[gamekeeper]

Thanks, Gamekeeper. They only mention two types. I wonder if that means these could be custom added to guns after the fact, or if they guns had to be designed that way.

All the ejector guns I've seen were made that way, English gunmakers offer their guns as ejector or non ejector with the ejector guns costing significantly more. I guess it's possible to convert a non ejector to ejector but it would be expensive. I have seen ejectors converted to non ejecting because of continual problems with timing.
My personal choice is non ejector and double triggers, far less things to go wrong, I have seen too many single trigger ejectors spend more time on the bench than in the field.

[FatJackDurham]

How does a double barrel have just one trigger? Does it fire both at the same time? Or is it for external hammers, and it fires the barrel you have cocked?

[gamekeeper]

How does a double barrel have just one trigger? Does it fire both at the same time? Or is it for external hammers, and it fires the barrel you have cocked?

Most D/B shotguns made nowadays side by side or over and under have single triggers.

Better guns have selective triggers so you can chose which barrel you fire cheaper guns have non selective triggers.
Either way the the fact is that if your single trigger breaks you may not be able to fire either barrel, most D/B dangerous game rifles have double triggers, as you don't want to face a Bull Elephant with a finicky fashion item...
That said there are some reliable single triggers about now but I still don't want one.

[Griff]

How does a double barrel have just one trigger? Does it fire both at the same time? Or is it for external hammers, and it fires the barrel you have cocked?

Much the same as a semi-auto, trigger has a reset feature, switching back and forth between the strikers.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Many single trigger double barrel guns have an inertia block in them that rely on the recoil of the first shot to activate the second barrels connection with the trigger. No recoil, no second shot will fire.

[gamekeeper]

Many single trigger double barrel guns have an inertia block in them that rely on the recoil of the first shot to activate the second barrels connection with the trigger. No recoil, no second shot will fire.

My son tried some light loads in his O/U and no second shot! I reckon if double triggers were a new invention everyone would want 'em....

[Pete44ru]

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In the event of a misfire, or a too low-powered load, in the first barrel fired, any double gun with an inertal block trigger can be reset to the 2nd bbl simply by bumping the butt of the gun (usually on a tabletop or the ground).

Each barrel's selective ejectors are separately connected to the hammer for that barrel - when one or both hammers fall, a lever releases an ejector sear _or two), which activates the EJ spring ASAP the barrels are swung open.

Everything resets (one or both hammers & EJ's) when the gun is fully opened, then closed (cycled).


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[junkbug]

I have heard that before about the Browning style inertia style hammers. That is something I would feel very leary of doing with a loaded shotgun, unless desperate for my life.

I believe manual extractors were so popular in the black powder era, cost aside, was due to the ease of cleaning the bores. The extractor was often the only moving part in front of the hinge, and could be pulled out, when the barrels were removed from the receiver. Then boiling water, with perhaps a little soap, could be poured down the tubes, and the bores swabbed. The simplicity of it is still remarkable.

[firefuzz]

^^ There's the answer from an expert...

+1

Of course, it could just be a matter of Hollywood not paying close attention to firearms to make sure they are period correct. Think of all the old flicks of the Civil War where they are using Colt SAA's? Even John Wayne was guilty!

Or '92 Winchesters in 1866 era movies. At least he always carried a Winchester. LOL

[FatJackDurham]

man! I had no idea simple side by side shotguns could be so intricate or advanced!!! Thanks for all the engineering info. It's amazing! Now I want one again!

[Lastmohecken]

I have an 1890 Charles Lancaster English Best, side by side, that has auto ejectors and is also assisted opening. It's a wonderful masterpiece of engineering and far more refined then anything made in the states at that time. And while it's possible that McQueen's borrowed shotgun could have had ejectors, I would consider it unlikely, for the time and place. If it was my guess, Hollywood either put it in there on purpose for effect or by oversight, after all, it's rare that they got it right, where the guns came it, in the westerns of that era.

[rossim92]

Just watched an andy griffith show today that was made in 1961.. Him and his date were competing in a skeetshoot. They were using over/under shotgun that ejected them into my next room. not sure what brand and model it was.

[Tactical Lever]

How does a double barrel have just one trigger? Does it fire both at the same time? Or is it for external hammers, and it fires the barrel you have cocked?

Never saw an external hammer sxs with a single. Kind of defeats the purpose, in that a single trigger is a little faster for most people to use; though I used a double trigger pretty fast by accident once!

And ejectors are faster, but extractors are more positive. If the case is sticky, it can still be muscled out as an extractor is pushing it out via linkage, and not relying on a spring.

I like extractors, double triggers and hammers. Especially if I'm trusting it for dangerous work.

[gamekeeper]

According to Google, Steve McQueen used a 1878 Colt double hammer gun, I don't think they ever had ejectors, maybe Hollywood trickery? I will just have to watch the Magnificent Seven again.