110 year old Winchester 1892 issues..???

[rbertalotto]

Hi folks,

Maybe you can help....

Yesterday I picked up a Winchester 1892 in 38-40 for $400. The gun is in rough shape but I think I can save it. All the parts are there and it functions fine. There is a sliver of wood missing from the forend. The butt stock is in great shape.

I took it completely apart and put everything into the ultrasonic cleaner. Can't believe the "mud" that was in the water after cleaning! Put it all back together and it is quite smooth functioning.

The bore is pretty proud and quite pitted. A .401 bullet will enter the muzzle with no force for about 3/4" and then it is engraved with rifling nicely. The chamber is pitted. Haven't been able to shoot it yet. It might need a reline...We'll see.

The issue I'm having is feeding....If I load ten rounds it will feed the first 9 fine, but it will not feed the last round. It doesn't come up far enough to enter the chamber. The tip of the bullet hits the lip of the chamber.

I have a modern 1892 (Japan) that I can compare the action sequence to. The only thing I see different with the old gun is the elevator tends to drop down about a 1/32" when the lever is pulled back to push a cartridge into the chamber. The Mirkou 1892 the elevator stays right up top. On the old gun this seems to be because of wear on the inside of the receiver where the spring loaded plunger on the elevator contacts and should hold it in place.

The barrel on the Mirkou has quite a load ramp cut into the bottom of the chamber, the old rifle has zero load ramp.

And lastly, it will extract all rounds, but it only ejects about 70% of the time. The extractor looks like it is doing it's job, but 30% of the time the cartridge disconnects from the extractor before the case is totally out of the chamber, and then it simply lies on top of the next round and jams up the works.

I love messing with these old guns. I've brought back to life a 1873 and an 1886 and a 1894 Take Down and a Marlin 1889 and a Marlin 1893...All were pretty much "basket cases" and now are being used to shoot Cowboy Action and for hunting.

But this 1892 has me really scratching my head!

[Pete44ru]

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Roy, I'm no great expert, but it sounds like the extractor tip's out of sorts, and the lifter stop spring's tired.

I would remove the extractor from the bolt & take a magnified look at the tip/hook - it should be straight across & have a sharp edge.
If it can't be reworked with a file and/or stone, then perhaps a new extractor's indicated ($33 @ Numrich).

There's a good pic of the extractor's business end on the Numrich site, which should be able to give you a good comparison with the one in the rifle.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CBwQ9QEwAQ




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[Griff]

The feeding issue you've figured out... the carrier needs to stay up there, either the left guide is worn, or the spring behind the detent ball is broken. The extractor is probably a worn or bent. But, either way, not getting enough of a grip on the rim.

[FatJackDurham]

I wonder why only the last one fails to load? Does the shape of the rim of the cartridge push up under the lifter when there is still something in the magazine still?Or if the pressure against that little thing that blocks the next round from following in helps the lifter rise? If its consistantly the final round fails to load, I wonder if there is something else contributing as well?

[rbertalotto]

Does the shape of the rim of the cartridge push up under the lifter when there is still something in the magazine still?

This is hard to see, but I bet dollars to donuts that you are correct. I bet this is exactly what is happening. But I'm not sure how I'm going to fix it. I'm not sure how to get that lifter to stay up where it needs to be.

My extractor is simply an "L" shaped end. It does not look like the picture above.

I'm going to order a new extractor anyways. Cheap money and it should improve things. I think I'll use the dremel and create a small feeding ramp on the bottom of the barrel also.

Thanks for all the help.

[Sixgun]

Not meaning to sound pessimistic but when guns get that worn out, we'll, they are worn out. The holes where pins ride through get elongated, camming surfaces have several thou. taken off, (under the bolt)
springs get tired, and , past owners making changes to get it to work really messes with the geometry and timing issues. Good luck------6

[Griff]

Like Sixgun sez, check the pivolt holes in the carrier and the ends of the screws that it pivots on, plue again, check that detent hole on the carrier, especially before you go to making irrepairable changes to the chamber. A carrier or left hand guide is much easierto either fix or replace.

[CaptainFinn]

Also, since youve already done the stripdown and cleaning, maybe a complete spring replacement is in order. Magazine spring could be weak, as could the ejector spring ( I know, on new guns the ejector spring is usually hell-for-stout and benefits from reduction.).

[rbertalotto]

I just ordered all the springs because at 110 years old I know I'd be losing my "spring"....

I also ordered a barrel liner and a new extractor.

I'll bore out this barrel and put the liner in like I did with my 1873......

www.rvbprecision.com

I just fixes a huge chip missing out of the forend. I'll take pictures tomorrow. The fix turned out quite well!

I'll get this ol' gal running perfect...I love a challenge. My 1873 was in much worse condition when I got it now it runs so well I use it in Cowboy Action Shooting with black powder cartridges. It roars!

[rbertalotto]

I took the old girl out to the range at lunchtime today.......All the bullets except one went through the target sideways!....But I kinda knew that would happen. The 38-40 liner from Brownells is on its way....It's strange that the gun ejected all the rounds.......but still wouldn't feed the last cartridge.

Here are a few pictures:







You can see where I had to fix the forend here:


A huge chunk was missing so I sanded out a wedge shape and cut a piece of walnut I had laying around...Super-Glued it in place....sanded to shape....and stained with Minwax Gun Stock Red stain.....Not bad!

Many more pictures here:
http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/thi ... t-go-bang/

www.rvbprecision.com

[Sixgun]

Hey! Not bad looking at all. I was expecting it to look like some guns that have sat in a barn for 100 years. Nothing turns me off more than heavy rust. ----6

[rbertalotto]

Yup...She cleaned up real well...Wish I had taken some "before" pictures...