winchester 94 questions

[sgtgrinche]

i have a winchester 94 30-30 that is spiting the cases and the primers are popping. I have taken this to my local gun shop he thinks we should put a new barrel on it or re chamber it to maybe a 32 special. he doesnt know what options i have he going to check with a gunsmith in pittsburgh that works on levers. I was wondering if any of you guys have some ideas of what i could do with it and what i would need to change to make it a differant caliper i dont know what internals if any would need changed. I,m not doing it myself a proffesional is doing it but i would like some idea what needs done so i dont get boned.

[JReed]

Is this with factory ammo?
And what does your chamber look like? Is it grossly out of round or something.

[Tycer]

Sounds like a headspace issue.

One of the guys with more smithing backgrounds will be along.

Fixing the headspace on a Win 94 is not that big an issue unless the receiver has stretched.

Going to 32 Special will not fix your problem, it is a 30-30 necked up to 32 caliber.

[sgtgrinche]

jeremy it is with factory ammo a far as the chamber is concerned he said it looked alright he said he thought i might be a head space issue, thanks tycer i wasnt sure if going to a 32 would work if i needed it re chamberd also if i needed a new barrel i thought maybe go to 32 because i have 3 30-30s

[Griff]

...i have a winchester 94 30-30 that is spiting the cases and the primers are popping...

By which, I must assume you mean "splitting" and that primers are backing out. Sounds like very excessive headspace. At the very least your guy should check the headspace, for it could be that either setting the barrel back a ¼ turn or so, or replacing the locking lug, could do the trick.
To reset the barrel means that you actually turn the barrel back in a full turn, trim the breech end & recut the extraction groove to ensure your sights line up. The other option is to replace the locking lug with a "thicker" one. This means you'd have to know that your chamber dimensions are correct, and that you've experienced no frame stretch. Frame stretch is not common, but not unheard of either. 1st I'd have a chamber cast done, this will tell you if the chamber is dimensioned correctly and if simply re-barreling the rifle will correct the condition.

Do you know the history of the rifle? If not, you may want to send it off to someone you trust in the building of a levergun.

One thing I've always wanted, but have never seen is a set of dimensioned drawings for the Winchester 94. maybe someone on the forum knows where they're available from. I would think they would be mandatory for a gunsmith that works on them all the time.

May I suggest you contact Mike Hunter @ Hunter Restorations to discuss your problem. He's a member of this forum and I believe fully qualified to handle such a job. I might know my way around a 94, but I certainly ain't qualified to fix problem children.

[sgtgrinche]

yes griff i ment splitting i do not know the history of this rifle i picked it up at the gun shop for $150.00 a coulple of years ago i dont have alot of money right now to spend on this its kind of a project and with a new baby on the way the CFO WILL NOT RELEASE THE FOUNDS . My gun shop doesnt have the right tools to do the head space so he's sending it out to a man he trusts forgot the name but he is in pittsburgh pa close to me. if i had bigger profit sharing i could send it out to hunters it looks like he oes fine work but my teenager eats to much maybe when the kids a grown i can treat it to a new make over

[Abilene]

When Winchester shut down I bought a beater 94 that when I fired it the case necks would split. Primers stayed put . I removed the barrel and sent it to Jesse Oucumpaugh(spelling) and had it rebored to 38-55. I got my barrels back last week, so I put 'em together, and the old girl feeds awfully slick, fired cases look good I could not be happier. Fireformed 65 cases and only lost 3. Worked for me. Wisner's has thicker breech blocks if ya need one. Abilene

[wm]

Uh....I may be demonstrating my ignorance here but if it is a bad headspace issue could you remove the barrel, take a thread or two off it and rechamber it to 30 WCF Ackley Improved and screw the barrel back onto the receiver?

A buddy did this with a bolt action mauser with a bad 35 Whelen chamber. Solved the problem in that case.

Wm

[tman]

if you can, please let me know the smith in pittsburgh who specialises in levers,as i live close. thank u, tman

[sgtgrinche]

tman when i find out his name i will let you know

[Griff]

Uh....I may be demonstrating my ignorance here but if it is a bad headspace issue could you remove the barrel, take a thread or two off it and rechamber it to 30 WCF Ackley Improved and screw the barrel back onto the receiver?
A buddy did this with a bolt action mauser with a bad 35 Whelen chamber. Solved the problem in that case.
Wm

It might even not need changing the chambering to fix. Since a Winchester 94's headspace is regulated by the locking lug, most often a thicker lug will "cure" the problem. The chamber could be oversized and that will require more drastic measures such as setting the barrel back and rechambering.

[sgtgrinche]

griff i think your right locking lug. gun shop guy says its .040 out of tolerance. hopefully he right now im in the process redoing the wood that takes the patience of paul and i am learning hopefully it will turn out ok

[Malamute]

I think a great many 94's are technically out of spec for headspace, but they rarely cause any trouble other than primers backing out a little, (which does no real harm). Splitting cases is a problem. What do you mean by "popping primers", piercing them, or are they falling out, or just backing out a little?


The oversize locking bolts I've seen are .015" oversize at the largest, if I recall correctly, so that alone won't deal with the headspace issue, tho it may get it back close enough to quit splitting cases.

If it's a barrel problem effecting headspace, a replacement barrel may be cheapest. They can be had for $30 or $40 sometimes, and the last one I paid to have changed was $15 labor, if I stripped and reassembled the gun (last one I changed was free, the guy just let me use his tools, it isn't rocket science). Some gunsmiths charge large amounts of money to do very simple work. It may not be cost effective to have the work done on this gun unless it's a good condition pre-64 and worth the effort. Gun parts Co had barrels last I looked at their catalog, and they often come up at gun shows in parts piles.


I had a post-64 that never shot well, turned out it had an oversize bore. I rebarreled it to 38-55. No other action work was required other than the barrel replacement.

[Griff]

Malamute,
You're right as far as I know, but... if Sgt. Grinche's is under-sized that .015 plus std., could bring the headspace back in spec. There are a couple of other tricks, but they require a guy with good knowledge of hard-facing and building up metal... A good cam or crankshaft guy knows what I'm talkin' about.