357 maximum

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groschen1936
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357 maximum

Post by groschen1936 »

I've searched the internet without finding definitive answers. A friend has suggested my neophyte inquiry might find assistance here:

Has anyone ever manufactured a lever gun for the 357 maximum cartridge? Or is it possible that a suitable gunsmith could modify an existing 357 magnum lever rifle for 357 maximum use?

Some have indicated that all standard manufactured 357 magnum lever actions are too "short" to accommodate the maximum length; others have told me some discontinued rifles should be convertible.

As a neophyte how does one find a knowledgable gunsmith?
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Old Ironsights »

groschen1936 wrote:I've searched the internet without finding definitive answers. A friend has suggested my neophyte inquiry might find assistance here:

Has anyone ever manufactured a lever gun for the 357 maximum cartridge? Or is it possible that a suitable gunsmith could modify an existing 357 magnum lever rifle for 357 maximum use?

Some have indicated that all standard manufactured 357 magnum lever actions are too "short" to accommodate the maximum length; others have told me some discontinued rifles should be convertible.

As a neophyte how does one find a knowledgable gunsmith?
Tycer is the man to ask, but essentially...

Has anyone ever manufactured a lever gun for the 357 maximum cartridge? NO.

Or is it possible that a suitable gunsmith could modify an existing 357 magnum ever rifle for 357 maximum use? NO... unless it's a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336 based frame.

Some have indicated that all standard manufactured 357 magnum lever actions are too "short" to accommodate the maximum length; They are right.

others have told me some discontinued rifles should be convertible. None that I'm aware of.

Tycer has a Win 94 in 360 Dan Wesson which is slightly shorter than the .357 Max...
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by pwl44m »

Caint answer Ur ? but I can welcome You to the forum. So without further adiou "Welcome"
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Chris83716 »

The least amount of trouble would be to buy a 35 Remmington and be done with it. I know its not the answer you want, but it gets you to the same place.

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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Old Ironsights »

Chris83716 wrote:The least amount of trouble would be to buy a 35 Remmington and be done with it. I know its not the answer you want, but it gets you to the same place.

Chris
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Oh... and Howdy :oops: :mrgreen:
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by JerryB »

Welcome, stick around and join the fun.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Nath »

Old Ironsights wrote:
groschen1936 wrote:I've searched the internet without finding definitive answers. A friend has suggested my neophyte inquiry might find assistance here:

Has anyone ever manufactured a lever gun for the 357 maximum cartridge? Or is it possible that a suitable gunsmith could modify an existing 357 magnum lever rifle for 357 maximum use?

Some have indicated that all standard manufactured 357 magnum lever actions are too "short" to accommodate the maximum length; others have told me some discontinued rifles should be convertible.

As a neophyte how does one find a knowledgable gunsmith?
Tycer is the man to ask, but essentially...

Has anyone ever manufactured a lever gun for the 357 maximum cartridge? NO.

Or is it possible that a suitable gunsmith could modify an existing 357 magnum ever rifle for 357 maximum use? NO... unless it's a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336 based frame.

Some have indicated that all standard manufactured 357 magnum lever actions are too "short" to accommodate the maximum length; They are right.

others have told me some discontinued rifles should be convertible. None that I'm aware of.

Tycer has a Win 94 in 360 Dan Wesson which is slightly shorter than the .357 Max...
And 86er!

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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Hobie »

Sincerely,

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Re: 357 maximum

Post by AJMD429 »

If you have to use a long-action gun to create a .357 Maximum, then the other easier way to get the .358" bullet going that fast, is just to use a .35 Remington chambered 'factory' levergun.

If you want a short-action levergun with similar ballistics, consider:

.44 Mag necked to .357" (.357/44 Bain & Davis and other 'wildcats') - fairly easy to make by rebarreling a .44 Mag 1894.

.357 DanWesson and other similar wildcats - not quite so long but longer than regular .357's and capable of hotter loads (.357 Max operates at way higher pressures, so important the cases can't fit in a 'regular' .357 Mag).

It does seem like it would be a cool levergun cartridge, though, sort of a scaled-down .444 Marlin... 8)
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Tycer »

Welcome!

With the 35 Remington already cornering the market on that velocity with no mods needed in an already smooth great tube-fed lever action, there is no "need" for a 357 Max lever. The Win BB 94 356 is a further step up if speed is what you desire.

The amount of money, time and effort and the increased lever throw places a 357 Maximum lever gun so far down my list that it will never happen for me.

The 360 Dan Wesson requires very little effort to run smoothly in a Win 94. Lengthen the groove in the cartridge guide channels where the rim passes through and perhaps kiss the leade with a finish reamer if the chamber is a bit tight for cast bullets. That's it you're done. Couple hundred extra fps with little cost. You don't really even need 360 brass, just use Mag brass and seat your bullets out farther. The heavy ones are plenty long to get good seating in the brass. 360 Dan Wesson brass is thicker and stronger and only Starline made it. You can not cut Max brass back because the Max brass gets real thick real fast. I suppose you could cut it back and then thin by inside neck turning...yuk.

The 35 Remington is a great round. The 357 Magnum really shines in a 16" barrel too. 180s move on out there for a great deer round within distance limitations that keep it a bit shy of the 35 Rem.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by stretch »

Like Chris, Doc, and Tycer said - you've already got the 35 Remington - which is
a terrific round.

Still, the 357 Maximum in a levergun is an interesting concept. I'm sure
it could be done by an enterprising 'smith, but it WOULD be a job. Happily
spending someone else's money, I say make one and report back! :twisted:

Get a 35 Remington - it will do all that the 357 Maximim will do and more. 8)

-Stretch
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by pwl44m »

I believe the question was "does anyone make a Levergun for the 357 Maximum"
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by AJMD429 »

Tycer wrote:With the 35 Remington already cornering the market on that velocity with no mods needed in an already smooth great tube-fed lever action, there is no "need" for a 357 Max lever.
Yeah, but. . . :wink:

An 1894 or '92 is quite a bit handier than a 336 or '94, and for a given length magazine tube more rounds can be had.

It reminds me of the .454 Casull - that round doesn't really do much the .45-70 can't duplicate with even a 'moderate' load, but the Rossi 92's with 16" barrels are more compact than a normal .45-70 levergun. Granted, you can shorten the latter into a 'Guide Gun' or even shorter, and you could do the same for a .35 Remington in a .336 action, but still . . . the shorter lever-throw, higher magazine-capacity, and overall 'handiness' favor the 'pistol' cartridge leverguns for SOME purposes.
The amount of money, time and effort and the increased lever throw places a 357 Maximum lever gun so far down my list that it will never happen for me.
. . . now what kind of attitude is that. . . I thought the whole purpose of a 'hobby' was to turn it into an obsession, and see how much time and money and effort could be wasted, er I mean 'invested' in it. . . :lol:
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Tycer »

The Casull is way shorter than the Max and ~the same OAL as the 360 DW and the Casull chambered Rossi are finicky about OAL with cast bullets. A huge part of my love for the 92 and 86 J M Browning designs is they cycle like buttah and why would I want a cartridge that messes with buttah? Don't fool with mother nature.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Tycer »

pwl44m wrote:I believe the question was "does anyone make a Levergun for the 357 Maximum"
Perry
Yes it was and Old Ironsights answered it completely. We couldn't just let the thread die with one reply now could we? :wink:
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by AJMD429 »

Tycer wrote:Yes it was and Old Ironsights answered it completely. We couldn't just let the thread die with one reply now could we? :wink:
:lol: :lol:

You're right about the Casull being closer to the DW than the Max in length, and although my Rossi .454 so far (haven't shot it that much :oops: ) feeds fine, any time you 'push' a design past its original functions, you're straying into potentially unreliable and/or dangerous places. . .

. . . but that's half the fun, isn't it. . . ? :wink: :o

I've always thought it would be cool if there was a 'just slightly scaled up' short-receiver levergun for those extra-long or extra-hot cartridges.

That DRC that looks kind of like a Marlin 336 mated with a Winchester BigBore 94, IS available in .454 Casull (and .475 Linebaugh), and no doubt could handle the pressures of either of those .357 hotties (DW or Max), though I'm not sure about the length of the Max - it's kind of like the .375 Win or .444 Marlin - r e a l l y LONG... But then again, that DRC levergun probably isn't compact like the 1894 or '92, which is really what the fundamental issue is (hence the 'just get a 336 or '92 in .35 Remington' comments).
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by pwl44m »

Tycer wrote:
pwl44m wrote:I believe the question was "does anyone make a Levergun for the 357 Maximum"
Perry
Yes it was and Old Ironsights answered it completely. We couldn't just let the thread die with one reply now could we? :wink:

No !! I suppose not.
I almost bought a Ruger when they first came out, kinda wish I had.
I wonder if the OP has been sold on anything else, but My guess is He wants a Maxi. It would be interresting.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Rusty »

The easiest way to get a long gun in .357 Max is in a Handi Rifle and there is plenty written about them in the Max.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by groschen1936 »

Thanks to everyone for beginning my education about lever guns! :D

Remember as an ignorant beginner I was not asking what the best lever gun might be but whether all my 357 Maximum cartridges and reloading equipment that I had since buying my Dan Wesson handgun from Dan himself could be used in a suitable lever gun? I'm still unclear if a competent gunsmith could modify some existing lever gun or even how to determine whether a gunsmith is actually competent to advise me correctly or how to find him! I live in Massachusetts where custom gunsmiths are not common!
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Hobie »

groschen1936 wrote:Thanks to everyone for beginning my education about lever guns! :D

Remember as an ignorant beginner I was not asking what the best lever gun might be but whether all my 357 Maximum cartridges and reloading equipment that I had since buying my Dan Wesson handgun from Dan himself could be used in a suitable lever gun? I'm still unclear if a competent gunsmith could modify some existing lever gun or even how to determine whether a gunsmith is actually competent to advise me correctly or how to find him! I live in Massachusetts where custom gunsmiths are not common!
Well, if you need an outlet for that .357 Maximum stuff...

You didn't mention that you're in MA. Would you mind sharing, generally, whereabouts? I've some distant relations all across the state but my GOOD friend and his wife live in Springfield. Was up Hancock and Stockbridge way at the end of June.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by bgmkithaca »

I have not seen a 357 max levergun but, I have a Marlin 336 that is chambered in 375 Supermag. This round is about the same thing as a 357 Max except for bore diameter. I did it some years back when Indiana got new deer hunting regulations. The conversion was not troublesome at all other than a rebarrel and chamber job , it feeds with no modifications whatever needed.
It gives more than adequate performance on white tail's if you don't try too long a shot with it.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Hobie »

Did you go with the .375 Supermag rather than the .375 Winchester due to case length restrictions?
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by bgmkithaca »

Yes, it was an easy one to fill the bill with. Since the rules have changed again effective this fall I have came up with another case based on the 444 marlin necked to .375 at 1.8 inches long. It too feeds with no problems but is more work to make. It works out to about the same as a heavy loaded 38-55 in a Marlin 336.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by AJMD429 »

bgmkithaca wrote:Since the rules have changed again effective this fall I have came up with another case based on the 444 marlin necked to .375 at 1.8 inches long.
Do you have a link to the new Indiana rules...? I usually just use a .44 Mag out of a levergun, but would be interested to see the new cartridge restrictions.

Addenda - NEVER MIND - I found it - http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw ... y_2012.pdf

Looks like "Maximum cartridge length has been extended to 1.8 inches. This means the cartridges like the .460 S&W and .50 Beowulf may be used."

Hmmmm. . . that's interesting, and I would like to consider taking advantage of it just to get some practical use out of the Beowulf, but. . . does this look like a 'deer rifle'. . . ? :shock: ? :shock: ? :shock: ?
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by Griff »

AJMD429 wrote:<snip> but. . . does this look like a 'deer rifle'. . . ? :shock: ? :shock: ? :shock: ?
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Jim Zumbo USED to think not... but, I bet he's re-thunk that! :twisted:
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by awp101 »

AJMD429 wrote: Hmmmm. . . that's interesting, and I would like to consider taking advantage of it just to get some practical use out of the Beowulf, but. . . does this look like a 'deer rifle'. . . ? :shock: ? :shock: ? :shock: ?
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It does if it's posed across a dead deer... :twisted:
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by awp101 »

bgmkithaca wrote:I have not seen a 357 max levergun but, I have a Marlin 336 that is chambered in 375 Supermag.
Wasn't the Supermag offered in either the Dan Wesson or Great Western revolvers? Didn't GW have the .357 Atomic, etc?
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by bgmkithaca »

I have not seen the .357 atomic but know of the .375 atomic-it is a i.4 in. version of the .375 supermag (1.61 in.) .
I can't say that Iv'e heard about the Great Western but Dan Wesson revolvers are available in .375 , .414 , and .445 supermag
currently but I read somewhere that Dan Wesson is now made by Charles Daly however I have not researched it to find out for sure. I am not a big handgun fan so don't pay a great deal of attention to them but some of the calibers are pretty surprising
in rifle barrel lengths.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by AJMD429 »

Lots of these 'oddball' wildcats and so on can be found on "AmmoGuide.com".

Lots of reloading data (factory and 'user') is also there, along with some really good search/sort tools.

In fact, I just searched their database using the Indiana DNR criteria for legal rifle cartridges, and found 55 legal deer cartridges for rifles in Indiana. That is a link, but I think you'd have to be a member of AmmoGuide.com to see it (I can't test it because I can't figure out how to go to the site and not automatically be logged on since I'm a member). It lists 606 cartridges matching the "legal for handguns" criteria, but since the list includes 7mm Remington Magnum and .338 Lapua, and I don't have any handguns chambered for those (I do know a guy with an 14" Encore pistol in 7mm Rem Mag :shock: ), the "rifle" list is more informative.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by 44shooter »

For me, a Max levergun would only be desirable if it would cycle Mags and possibly Specials as well. I don't think it is possible due to OAL differences. So if you want to shoot Max, Mag, and Specials; it is best to get a single shot.

I agree that a 35 Rem is way more practical than a dedicated 357 Max lever-action. For that matter, so is 44, 45, 356, 444, 38-55, 375, 338MX, etc.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by groschen1936 »

bgmkithaca wrote:I have not seen a 357 max levergun but, I have a Marlin 336 that is chambered in 375 Supermag. This round is about the same thing as a 357 Max except for bore diameter. I did it some years back when Indiana got new deer hunting regulations. The conversion was not troublesome at all other than a rebarrel and chamber job , it feeds with no modifications whatever needed.
It gives more than adequate performance on white tail's if you don't try too long a shot with it.
According to my Sierra manual the two Super Mag cartridges (the 357 & the 375) are within 0.005 inches of one another in length. In addition they claim the 357 200 grain flat point has better sectional density and ballistic coefficient which gives it an edge in downrange performance when compared to the 375 200 grain bullet.

I'd be most appreciative if you could refer me to the gunsmith who modified your Marlin 336.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by AJMD429 »

By the way, if you haven't been WELCOMED to the forum, consider it done. For your third post, according to the counter on the top of the thread, it generated quite a bit of good discussion...!

Sorry if some of us (me included) veered off into the
  • 'should you get a .357 Max levergun' topic,
instead of the
  • 'can you get a .357 Max levergun' topic...
:oops:
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by bgmkithaca »

groschen1936 wrote:
bgmkithaca wrote:I have not seen a 357 max levergun but, I have a Marlin 336 that is chambered in 375 Supermag. This round is about the same thing as a 357 Max except for bore diameter. I did it some years back when Indiana got new deer hunting regulations. The conversion was not troublesome at all other than a rebarrel and chamber job , it feeds with no modifications whatever needed.
It gives more than adequate performance on white tail's if you don't try too long a shot with it.
According to my Sierra manual the two Super Mag cartridges (the 357 & the 375) are within 0.005 inches of one another in length. In addition they claim the 357 200 grain flat point has better sectional density and ballistic coefficient which gives it an edge in downrange performance when compared to the 375 200 grain bullet.

I'd be most appreciative if you could refer me to the gunsmith who modified your Marlin 336.

I am the one that did the conversion to .375 supermag. I am a home gunsmith of sorts for fun, it keeps me off the street as my wife says. I did not find the 200 grain bullets to my liking and use 220 grain instead and yes you are right- the 35 caliber
does have better sd than the 375 with a 200 grain in both cases. I also use cast bullets from a custom mold of my design.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by bgmkithaca »

groschen1936 wrote:
bgmkithaca wrote:I have not seen a 357 max levergun but, I have a Marlin 336 that is chambered in 375 Supermag. This round is about the same thing as a 357 Max except for bore diameter. I did it some years back when Indiana got new deer hunting regulations. The conversion was not troublesome at all other than a rebarrel and chamber job , it feeds with no modifications whatever needed.
It gives more than adequate performance on white tail's if you don't try too long a shot with it.
According to my Sierra manual the two Super Mag cartridges (the 357 & the 375) are within 0.005 inches of one another in length. In addition they claim the 357 200 grain flat point has better sectional density and ballistic coefficient which gives it an edge in downrange performance when compared to the 375 200 grain bullet.

I'd be most appreciative if you could refer me to the gunsmith who modified your Marlin 336.

groschen1936:
Check your PM, I have sent you one.
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by groschen1936 »

If a Marlin 336 is a candidate for a successful rebarrel and chamber job in order to use 357 Maximum/Supermag cartridges. can anyone suggest a competent gunsmith?
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Re: 357 maximum

Post by elmo123 »

I have a 94 Trapper in 357 Magnum that I rechambered to 357 Maximum. I bought a new carrier and internal parts and fitted them to feed a loaded 357 Maximum. It would not feed 38 Specials so I reinstalled the original parts and shoot the Maximums by loading them one at a time. The chronograph results show it is identical to the 35 Remington. It shoots pretty good. There is a lot of muzzle flash with the Maximum.

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Re: 357 maximum

Post by BAGTIC »

1. The .357 Atomic was just a .357 loaded to higher than standard pressures.

1. Model 92 and Marlin 1894 in .357 will handle the pressure of .357 Maximum easily.

3. I had a Marlin 1894 converted years ago.. It was not really successful and it required lengthening the lever swing making operation a little awkward. Also it has to be operated briskly. No trying to gently slip load a new round. NO PROBLEMS WITH PRESSURE. These guns are also offered in .44 Magnum which puts a lot more strain on them that the .357 Maximum. I also have an H&R .357 Maximum (factory chambered) and a Ruger No. 1 (rechambered). Singleshots are the way to go as cartidge length is no obstacle nor are spitzer bullets. I like the .357 caliber as it can also be used with lightweight bullets for plinking and smaller animals for which a larger caliber like .44 is overkill. I have both and each has its place but the .357 is a more verstile all around gun at least around here where we don't have anything bigger than whitetails.

4. There is always the option of the .35-30/30 wildcat oif you can manage a barrel swap. .358 bullets shoot fine in ".357 barrels"
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