Glock hunting

[mikld]

I saw a Glock show on TV last night. Haven't made up my mind 'bout it yet, not being a hunter. This guy was shooting groundhogs, from a pickup, with a Glock in 45 ACP. Showed some good hits at a reported 45 -50 yards. No problem with that. Nutria were next and ranges looked like less than 25 yards and all rodents died on the spot. Then they were shooting "swamp deer" and out of the 4 or 5 hits shown, none went down, but ran off like an arrow shot deer. Then a feller was shooting White Tail with a 10mm Glock. A couple went down DRT and a couple ran off. I don't question the hunters' ethichs or shooting abilities, just wanted to share and get some thoughts and feedback and opinions...

[Old Ironsights]

I question using a .45acp for deer except in urgent circumstances as the range/trajectory/penetration is NOT equal to a .357.

The 10mm is equivalent to a .357 and that IS a legal, generally accepted handgun cartridge for deer in many states.

Shot placement is everything.

[Pisgah]

Legalities of various jurisdictions aside, I have shot probably a dozen whitetails with a 1911 and a 1917 S&W in .45 ACP. I can say that I consider the .45 perfectly adequate on small-bodied deer with well-placed shots at ranges that are reasonable. In my case, no shot has been taken at any deer over about 40 yards, and bullets have included 230 gr. Hydrashoks, Winchester 230 gr. JHPs and cast 255 gr. semiwadcutters loaded in Auto Rim cases. Probably half of the JHP bullets did not go all the way through, but expanded and were found under the hide on the far side; the semiwadcutters have all been full pass-throughs. No deer has gone over 50 yards after the hit, with the majority either falling where they stood or taking no more than a few faltering steps.

Anyone who says the .45 ACP won't work simply has not tried them, or hasn't made an accurate shot, IMO. "Paper" performance is irrelevant in this case.

It is ironic to me that I know some who feel a standard .45 Colt load is fine for deer, but a good .45 ACP is not. Being familiar with both, I feel that in practical application there is not a whole heckuva lot of difference except that, being marginally faster, the .45 Colt may give a few more yards. Some of the same folks think a .30-30 in a 20" carbine is worthless beyond 100 yards, but that in a 14" Contender it is just dandy out to 200.

[L_Kilkenny]

.45acp and 10mm viability aside, just cause a deer runs off doesn't mean it wasn't an adequate cartridge or shot IMO. Seen a dang lot of shotguned deer run a piece with good solid heart/lung shots and while I've never used a high powered rifle I've seen plenty of video where the same thing happens even with cartridges like a 7mm mag. YMMV.

LK

[Mescalero]

Why is it that you have never used a high powered rifle?
Geographic location?

[L_Kilkenny]

Ya, Iowa is a slug gun state although it does have a special January "antlerless only" rifle season in the southern part of the state. Tried it a couple times, once with a 94 (only saw a buck) and the other time I was just helping some buddies and only carried my Security Six. Already had my freezer full and really didn't care if I got another one that year. Been wanting to do a rifle trip to Nebraska or Missouri but things haven't worked out yet.

LK

[Mescalero]

I remember driving across Iowa when I was in college, it seemed to me that place would lend itself to some really long shots, so I am surprised by the slug gun thing.

[K1500]

If a 45 ACP is not adequate for a deer, it is not adequate for self-defense either. Aside from a psychological stop, a large man is more stoutly constructed than a deer. No one has said this on this thread, but I get a kick out of guys that decry the .45 ACP for deer in one thread, yet defend the 9mm as 'just as good' as the .45 ACP for self-defense in another. For the record, my vote is the 10mm is better than both for everything.

[L_Kilkenny]

I remember driving across Iowa when I was in college, it seemed to me that place would lend itself to some really long shots, so I am surprised by the slug gun thing.

With coyote, fox and varmints long shots around here (northern 1/2 of Iowa) are generally the name of the game. Hence my preference to a bolt action rifle in lieu of a lever action. But southern Iowa has some good cover. Never the less, 90% of our deer are generally dispersed on about 10% of the land come hunting season. The open ground with limited cover is also one of the reasons they allow party hunting (deer drives). Not my preference but it's the name of the game here.

LK

[COSteve]

If a 45 ACP is not adequate for a deer, it is not adequate for self-defense either. Aside from a psychological stop, a large man is more stoutly constructed than a deer. No one has said this on this thread, but I get a kick out of guys that decry the .45 ACP for deer in one thread, yet defend the 9mm as 'just as good' as the .45 ACP for self-defense in another. For the record, my vote is the 10mm is better than both for everything.

+1

[Blaine]

I shot grouse with my G36 a couple years.....the FMJs made a nice clean hole thru them and didn't tear up meat. My highly acclaimed Seattle Phone Book Test (Pat Pend) sez a .45, at what would be your range to make a good shot, would be just find and dandy for smallish deer.

This Buff. Bore flat nose FMJ out penetrates regular FMJ by a factor of two or better....When I start loading for this caliber, these are the bullets I'll be looking for.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... etail&p=69

I have not seen this tested, but what a azz whooper this would be for deer, or about anything. Flat nosed, 255gr, hardcast:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=214

It's not your dad's .45acp anymore

[Canuck Bob]

I once used a 45 Colt Auto on groundhogs but quite real fast. Those fat bowling ball slugs skipped across a furrowed field for hundreds of yards. It taught me about ricochets. Until then my awareness rended to stop at the target. As far as deer are concerned I never considered it. Give me a 30-30 rifle any day.

[tman]

I knew of old, old timers who hunted bear and stood watch at the tent opening,with 45 acp's. Perhaps the game was less bullet proof back then. MAYBE, they knew how to shoot

[Pete44ru]

Glock ............. Noooo, thanks - no plastic/fantastic for me.

Since my fixer called this AM to say that my ship had come in, I picked up my new/ordered .45 this aft:



That it was issued with 2 mags was nice: that it was also issued with a bushing wrench was a pleasant surprise. .

.

[Old Ironsights]

I'm thinking that if I ordered another NIB .45 it might be the Ruger...

But still.

Do I believe the .45 (in a non specialized handgun like a Casull) is plenty of gun for a Whitetail at 25yds? You betcha.

But all other things being equal, IMO the 10mm is a BETTER cartridge to use out of the same frame.

(someone mentioned the psychological effect of being shot, human vs. animal... THAT is EXACTLY why IMO the 10mm/.357/hot .45colt beats the Cowboy Colt/.ACP/Auto-Rim vs. Game...)

[tman]

10mm or 45acp. At close range, is there really enough difference to matter? Both are considered inadequate by the gun writer crowd for large game. Between the 2, you are splitting hairs.

[madman4570]

I think say for a 50 yds (woods gun) the 10mm --180 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,350fps/M.E. 728 ft. lbs.) will do if need be.
Providing good shot placement.

[MrMurphy]

Friend I used to know used a Glock 20 (10mm) on many large hogs (up to the 250lb range) and some deer until his wife bought him a .454 Casull.

[Redhawk45]

The Glock 20 10mm takes some getting used to if you cut your teeth on a 1911. Having said this, the same three principles apply: precision, penetration and performance of the bullet. One gun writer who advocates scoped single shot pistols advocates nothing less than three inch groups at the deer and nothing less than 500 ft lbs of energy. Horse pucky! Subject to local game laws any centerfire from 357 Mag, 45 Auto, etc will work well. Practical field positions need emphasis. Benching comes first for zeroing but needs to be left behind during practice for for hunting. Self defense bullets need to be restricted to behind the shoulder heart-lung shots. Moderately tough, heavy bullets give a better range of shot options. The soft point, partitions and A Frames come to mind. My choice for the 10mm would include 200 grain XTP Hornady or Winchester 175 grain Silvertip.

[AJMD429]

Ya, Iowa is a slug gun state although it does have a special January "antlerless only" rifle season in the southern part of the state.

For awhile, in Indiana, you could hunt with only shotgun or handgun or muzzleloader, and

a 44 Mag rifle was considered 'marginal if not inadequate in power' but a 410 shotgun was legal if using a slug (ballistics like a light blackpowder load of 32-20)

a 44 Mag rifle was illegal because it 'carried to far' but a 7mm Mag Encore pistol was legal

a 44 cal bullet saboted and shot at 2000 fps from a muzzleloader was legal
a 44 cal bullet saboted and shot at 1800 fps from a shotgun was legal
a 44 cal bullet plain and shot at 1200 fps from a handgun was legal, but
a 44 cal bullet plain and shot at 1800 fps from a levergun was illegal

(the 'authorities' never could make up their mind whether it was 'inadequate' or 'carried too far...' )

Finally, logic prevailed and "pistol caliber rifles" were allowed.

[eric65]

Ya, Iowa is a slug gun state although it does have a special January "antlerless only" rifle season in the southern part of the state.

For awhile, in Indiana, you could hunt with only shotgun or handgun or muzzleloader, and

a 44 Mag rifle was considered 'marginal if not inadequate in power' but a 410 shotgun was legal if using a slug (ballistics like a light blackpowder load of 32-20)

a 44 Mag rifle was illegal because it 'carried to far' but a 7mm Mag Encore pistol was legal

a 44 cal bullet saboted and shot at 2000 fps from a muzzleloader was legal
a 44 cal bullet saboted and shot at 1800 fps from a shotgun was legal
a 44 cal bullet plain and shot at 1200 fps from a handgun was legal, but
a 44 cal bullet plain and shot at 1800 fps from a levergun was illegal

(the 'authorities' never could make up their mind whether it was 'inadequate' or 'carried too far...' )

Finally, logic prevailed and "pistol caliber rifles" were allowed.

Rumor has it that we will be able to use 30-30 rifles in the near future

[Streetstar]

Ya, Iowa is a slug gun state although it does have a special January "antlerless only" rifle season in the southern part of the state.

For awhile, in Indiana, you could hunt with only shotgun or handgun or muzzleloader, and

a 44 Mag rifle was considered 'marginal if not inadequate in power' but a 410 shotgun was legal if using a slug (ballistics like a light blackpowder load of 32-20)

a 44 Mag rifle was illegal because it 'carried to far' but a 7mm Mag Encore pistol was legal

a 44 cal bullet saboted and shot at 2000 fps from a muzzleloader was legal
a 44 cal bullet saboted and shot at 1800 fps from a shotgun was legal
a 44 cal bullet plain and shot at 1200 fps from a handgun was legal, but
a 44 cal bullet plain and shot at 1800 fps from a levergun was illegal

(the 'authorities' never could make up their mind whether it was 'inadequate' or 'carried too far...' )

Finally, logic prevailed and "pistol caliber rifles" were allowed.

Rumor has it that we will be able to use 30-30 rifles in the near future

Wow ! that is like using a laser cannon with fortified beryllium fuel !