your best 45 colt loads

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:34 pm

I loaded up fifty 45 colt loads with 8.4gn of unique before dinner....
and I am planning on loading another batch tomorrow....
whats your favorite load....

for the tenth time or so

BTW I am shooting a uberti 73 and beretta stampede

ouch..
Watching Coogans Bluff....and he just whack the bad guy with his winchester...
Good movie!

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:46 pm

I don't think I'm done, but so far I'm using 8.2 Unique, 255 gr RN in a 455 dia. as a load for my Uberti 1873 and my Beretta Stampedes and Laramie. So far so good. I want a load for both hunting and target shooting, not competition. I thought 9 gr Unique might be too much for my top break pistol and not needed for any.

Owen

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:53 pm

My best jacketed load is a 250 gr. Nosler JHP .451" W/ 7.9 gr. Unique.

My best lead load is a 255 gr. keith type SWC .452" W/ 7 gr. Unique.

The Uberti/Cimarron 5 1/2" 45 Colt of mine has a very tight bore & cylinder throats. Bore is .450", All throats are .4505"

Needless to say this piece is very accurate with either of the above listed loads.

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:37 pm

7.5 grains of RedDot pushing a Lee 255 RF (20:1 alloy sized to .452) with 1/2alox 1/2 lard lube out of my Bisley Vaquero. Throats are right at .452--I did them myself. Barrel is .451+. Blackhawk barrel and front sight because gunsmith messed up. I had wanted a dovetail front sight but he forgot to lock the quill on his mill and messed up the barrel so he thought. He should have called me because I would said cut the barrel to 4 3/4 instead of 5 1/2. He felt he needed to replace the 5.5" barrel since that's what I had. He made it right with me. Gave me some of the stuff at no charge I also had done like free spin pawl, and barrel gap set a minimum (about .002). Smaller cylinder gap has increased pressures so I've reduced my loads to compensate. He also re-polished the forcing cone to make sure it is 11 degrees. It shoots better than I can hold, but I can manage to hit a lick out to 100 yds when I'm having a good day.

Note about the lard. I can't say my lube mix makes that much difference. The lard is free after my wife is done cooking with it, and it lets me reduce the cost of alox somewhat. It's works so I ain't gonna stop.

rimrock

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:51 pm

My "BEST" loads? Well, first lets define "BEST". To me that is a load that performs as expected in multiple guns of the same cartridge. And will do so consistently.

So in no particular order:

Factory equivalent:
250gr Lyman 454190 or Remington 250gr factor over 8.0grs Unique or 7.1grs 231.

A little bit more:
250gr Speer SWC or Keith SWC over 8.5grs Unique

A bit more:
265gr Keith SWC over 9.0grs Unique

And my noisiest one:
265gr Keith SWC over 18.5grs 2400

Only jacketed load I ever found accurate enough to use:
250gr Hornady JHP, the original discontinued one, over 8.8grs of Unique

I try others for the fun of it and always come back to these.

Joe

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:38 pm

I have some loaded with 255 grain hard cast swc and 8 grains of Unique, same with 9 grains of Unique. I use them in my Colt SAA 5 1/2 inch and a 20 inch Rossi Hartford. My Colt is good out to 140 yards with 7.8 grains of Unique consistently that has been my load for well over 30 years.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:40 pm

My "best" loads for the 45 include 9 grs of unique , or 12 grs of bludot, or 18 grs of 2400 under a 250-260 gr semiwadcutter cast bullet.In your rifle you'll find the better preformance with the bludot and 2400 powders, than with the unique. You'll get a velocity gain with those powders somewhere from 200-250 fps over what a 7.5 in handgun barrel will give.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:32 pm

My most used all around load is a 250 gr. Keith over 9 gr. Unique.

I also use Win 296, Accurate #9, and Win 231 a bit, but I haven't settled on a favorite load for those three yet. The load with Unique is just so durned accurate and pleasant to shoot.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:47 am

Don McDowell wrote:My "best" loads for the 45 include 9 grs of unique , or 12 grs of bludot, or 18 grs of 2400 under a 250-260 gr semiwadcutter cast bullet.In your rifle you'll find the better preformance with the bludot and 2400 powders, than with the unique. You'll get a velocity gain with those powders somewhere from 200-250 fps over what a 7.5 in handgun
barrel will give.

For god's sake, don't evan think about these loads in your guns. they are for Rugers only. 18 grs. of 2400 would likely kill you and everyone around you in a Uberti.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:24 am

Sir,
He wasn't asking about rifles , he asked about a Uberti pistol. 17 gr.under a 250 or 265 gr. bullet of 2400 would like kill him.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:50 am

Since my 1873 is used primarily for cowboy action shooting, my favorite loads are geared to that end.

6.5 grains of RedDot behind either 200 RFN or 225 grain TC boolits. Right about mid-range loads, light recoil and accuracy acceptable for out to 50 yards. 4.5 grains of Clays behind 160, 185 or 200 grain boolits are also great out of my handguns or my 1873 with the 160 or 200 grainers.

Gets kinda confusing when some folks refer to their pistols as 1873s... and others only use that to describe the rifle. Regardless, of whether the OP meant the rifle or the handgun, I figure they're both about the same in strength... and load for them accordingly. Punishing loads for the guns, the targets or for the shooter are not a requirement, and are, at least IMO, to be avoided for CAS purposes.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:29 am

Paul Jenkins wrote:
Don McDowell wrote:My "best" loads for the 45 include 9 grs of unique , or 12 grs of bludot, or 18 grs of 2400 under a 250-260 gr semiwadcutter cast bullet.In your rifle you'll find the better preformance with the bludot and 2400 powders, than with the unique. You'll get a velocity gain with those powders somewhere from 200-250 fps over what a 7.5 in handgun
barrel will give.
For god's sake, don't evan think about these loads in your guns. they are for Rugers only. 18 grs. of 2400 would likely kill you and everyone around you in a Uberti.

Bullspit son , you need to get yourself just a wee bit of real experience before you go to making stupid statements like that. You might want to actually look at some real reloading data and expand your horizons beyond the end of your nose.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:30 am

Paul Jenkins wrote:Sir,
He wasn't asking about rifles , he asked about a Uberti pistol. 17 gr.under a 250 or 265 gr. bullet of 2400 would like kill him.

You don't have a bit of clue do you?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:56 am

Don, You beat me to it.

As for the OP, he asked for our best loads, mentioned his and stated what he was shooting them in. He did not ask what our best loads for his type of guns were.

Joe

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:58 am

when I mentioned the uberti 73....i should have mentioned rifle...to be clear...
I use the same load in both pistol and rifle....
mostly for killing paper targets at 50 and 100 yards....
but
I was also thinking about a huntind load for porkers....with a JHP

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:39 am

Some confusion fer sure , but Uberti calls the rifle 1873 not '73. Dumb I know but lets be clear.

Owen

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:29 am

Rimfire I would urge you to look at trying some of the bludot loads, as much as I like unigue and as much accuracy and velocity as following Elmer Keith and Brian Pierces 2400 load recommendations, I'm finding more and more that I turn to bludot for the combination loads.
Alliants web data shows a max load of 12.9, but 12 grs has been shooting rather well, and will give hog killing velocity from the handgun and Brontosarous killing velocity from the longer barrel of the rifle.

Joe, great minds work alike don't they.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:55 am

Don McDowell wrote:
Paul Jenkins wrote:
Don McDowell wrote:My "best" loads for the 45 include 9 grs of unique , or 12 grs of bludot, or 18 grs of 2400 under a 250-260 gr semiwadcutter cast bullet.In your rifle you'll find the better preformance with the bludot and 2400 powders, than with the unique. You'll get a velocity gain with those powders somewhere from 200-250 fps over what a 7.5 in handgun
barrel will give.
For god's sake, don't evan think about these loads in your guns. they are for Rugers only. 18 grs. of 2400 would likely kill you and everyone around you in a Uberti.

Bullspit son , you need to get yourself just a wee bit of real experience before you go to making stupid statements like that. You might want to actually look at some real reloading data and expand your horizons beyond the end of your nose.

Bullspit ,
BTW I am shooting a uberti 73 and beretta stampede
I thinnk they are both pistols, Evan the 1873 rifle would not be SAFE with those loads. Way over 35000 PSI

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 am

I agree on the 2400... My most current Alliant manual lists 15.4 grains as max under a 250 grain boolit. My Lyman 49th Handbook doesn't list 2400 for any cast... just for jacketed rounds. Those'll be safe SAAMI loads, not the +P level for Ruger BH or the BH sized Vaquero and other stronger actions than the Colt SAA or toggle-link rifles.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:23 am

Linebaugh lists pressures of loads with a 260 gr cast and 19 grs of 2400 not reaching 25,000 cup.

Rafe Covington · Post by **Rafe Covington** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:57 am

300 gr cast bullet, 17.5 gr 2400 powder. Ruger BH and a 1873 Uberti.

Rafe

Driftwood Johnson · Post by **Driftwood Johnson** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:58 am

2.2CC of FFg Schuetzen under a 250 grain PRS 250 grain Big Lube bullet.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:53 am

[quoteBullspit ,
BTW I am shooting a uberti 73 and beretta stampede
I thinnk they are both pistols, Evan the 1873 rifle would not be SAFE with those loads. Way over 35000 PSI[/quote]

Sorry boy you're still wrong .

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:25 am

J Miller wrote:Don, You beat me to it.

As for the OP, he asked for our best loads, mentioned his and stated what he was shooting them in. He did not ask what our best loads for his type of guns were.

Joe

Joe & Don,
Why would he care about loads in guns he doesn't have. He specified a "73 uberti & a stampede, both pistols. Evan a 1873 Uberti rifle would be overloaded at 18 grs. of 2400/ 250 gr bullet. The 1873 rifle is still the old toggle locked bolt. Safety would dictate about 18000 PSI max in an '73 Uberti pistol or rifle. I have a Uberti '73 Cimmeron,pistol, A winchester '92, and a Ruger blackhawk. The Uberti '73 pistol would fail with 18 grs. of 2400 almost certainly.
I took the man at his word and answered for pistols. I'll go a step farther and say the 1873 rifle was not designed to handle pressure in the mid 20000PSI range.
Joe, I didn't see him asking for YOUR best loads in any pistol or rifle, but, in a Uberti ,or Beretta pistol...
Don , your arrogance is telling!!!

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:52 am

Paul your ignorance speaks volumes.
IF the 73 won't handle over 20K pressure how does your pea sized cobweb that keeps your ears on opposite sides of your head rationalize the thousands of those rifles chambered in 357 magnum? Ever read Winchesters account of what they did to try and uncork those nasty ol toggle link actions?
Now considering that Elmer Keith, John Linebaugh and Brian Pearce and others, have all used the 2400 load in COLTS and SMITH AND WESSONS, then it might be beyond your small world of reasoning to accept the fact that the Uberti would likely handle the load just fine. Especially considering that that Uberti also comes chambered in the 45 acp which operates from 21-23K cup..... But get down and do some research, maybe you can find someone with reading comprehension skills that can show you the data, and that load in a 45 colt will run out at about 20-21K....
You might also take into consideraiton that Alliants data says that 15.4 grs of 2400 keeps with a 250 gr lead bullet keeps the pressure under the 14000 cup spec'ld by saami for the 45 colt, that the extra 2.5 grs is likely to fall somewhere around 20K or less, and way way way below the 35K you keep screaming about, hell son the maximum loads in a 454 casul don't hardly make that much with 2400,,,,
BESIDES you igoramous butt, the question was "what are your best 45 colt loads". I gave my answer based on 40 some odd years of using and loading for the cartridge in a variety of different guns.. So now boy it's up to you to deal with it.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:09 am

Don,
I was only trying to be responsible to a new shooter. Your anal response's I don't think appropriate. The Perusers of this forum can decide .

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:15 am

Paul your full of stuff, if you were in fact so concerned about a new shooter, (pssst don't look now but the op is anything but a new shooter) then WHY dinkus have you not offered or jumped down the throat of a couple of other loads posted in this thread?????????
You and I have been around here for a long long time, we got history, and it ain't good.....

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:23 am

Don,
I'll rest , You rant

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:40 am

RIHMFIRE wrote:when I mentioned the uberti 73....i should have mentioned rifle...to be clear...
I use the same load in both pistol and rifle....
mostly for killing paper targets at 50 and 100 yards....
but
I was also thinking about a huntind load for porkers....with a JHP

Paul, I ain't got a dog in this squabble of you and Don's, but here the OP makes it clear that the loads will be shot out of a '73 rifle as well as a Stampede revolver. All of the loads I've seen here on this thread would be fine to shoot out of either. Elmer Keith spent a lot of years fooling with old Colts and such, and I tend to think he knows of what he speaks. If it's good enough for Elmer, it's probably good enough for me

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:55 am

It seems I have misunderstood By a long shot the question asked. If I have answered inappropriaely, I appolozie. I will be VERY careful To reply again

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:50 am

Paul Jenkins wrote:It seems I have misunderstood By a long shot the question asked. If I have answered inappropriaely, I appolozie. I will be VERY careful To reply again

One fourth of the posts made in this thread by you , you still have not addressed the original question, only proceeded with your very selective righteous indignation,,,,, Speaks volumes....

Still think rimfire would do very well to work around the bludot load for both guns, practically the same velocity of the 2400 load, yet burns cleaner, and gives equal to better accuracy from my guns. I would not be surprised to see that bludot load hurl a 250 gr bullet from a rifle barrel at 1200 fps +-.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:16 pm

A Colt SAA made for smokeless powder will not fail with 18.5grs of 2400 and 260gr bullet. If it would Elmer Keith would not have used that load in his pre-war guns.
Modern Colts, Ubertis and other brand replicas are made of better steel than the old Colts and are in no danger of KABOOMING with that load.

FYI: Quick Load shows 18.5grs of 2400 behind a 265gr Keith SWC fired in a 4 3/4" Uberti SA as producing around 1040FPS* at just under 19,899PSI.
That is not even SAAMI spec .45 ACP ammo which these guns are also chambered for.
9.0grs of Unique with the same bullet produces 921FPS* @ 16,961PSI.

*There is a calculable velocity loss due to the barrel cylinder gap not factored in by the Quick Load program. I do not know that figure off the top of my head.

For the rifles; Quick Load shows the 18.5 gr /2400 /265gr Keith load as producing 1,501FPS @ 19,899 PSI from a 20" rifle.
The 9.0grs Unique load produces 1,235FPS @ 16,944PSI.
Although at the top end for a 73 rifle, these loads will not KABOOM it.

As for the OP's use of numbers 73 for the rifle, that is common usage. Both the Colt SAA and the 1873 Winchesters were technically 1873s, but in normal use the numbers 73 refer to the Winchester rifle.

Constantly claiming certain loads will blow a gun up when this just is not true is akin to the fanatic preachers claiming the world is coming to an end on 12-12-12 or what ever. Then when it don't happen they say "Oppps , maybe it's next year." Just a scare tactic that is not appreciated.

Joe

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:46 pm

10.5 grs. Unique, CCI primer & #454424 Lyman 260 gr. bullet: oven heat treated. Clocks about 1050fps. This load will shoot through a big mullie end to end & sail away down the valley. I use this utility/all around load in my Ruger Blackhawk. (Since I already have a .45 Colt, I don't need another!). It will work just fine in Colts & clones. Linebaugh & his wife have used it for decades & so have I.

Ruger Only!!! 27.5grs. H110 behind the same bullet clocks about 1500fps., in my pistoL ONLY! DON'T USE THIS IN A WEAK COLT OR IT'S CLONES.

Disclaim any usage in any other revolver than my own.

LB

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:52 pm

Gents?
When I first logged into this board 10 yrs ago,I asked about the Uberti '73 pistol & rifle and was told by most users then to use nothing hotter than a factory load. Evan Uberti said that!. Guess you all know more than the manufacturer. I know I won't come here for RELIABLE INFO again.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:10 pm

Paul Jenkins wrote:Gents?
When I first logged into this board 10 yrs ago,I asked about the Uberti '73 pistol & rifle and was told by most users then to use nothing hotter than a factory load. Evan Uberti said that!. Guess you all know more than the manufacturer. I know I won't come here for RELIABLE INFO again.

goodbye..soolong...syonara...

LB

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:09 pm

No dog in this fight (I only fight for Ron Paul...

), but:

Everyone should 'verify' ANY load as being within reasonable limits based on FACTORY loading data, so I don't blame those for posting their 'best' loads when asked for them, vs. only loads for a given pressure level.

It is courteous to specify the gun your 'best' load is being used in, to give the reader an idea of what your goals/results were.

When a forum member asks for 'load data', on ANY forum, they'd better take the above into account.

Again, always make sure the load someone else recommends is published, or close to published levels, before using it, unless you're willing to take some risk.

Finally, we needn't get in a huff about these things and start questioning each other's manhood or intelligence. None of us are stupid wimps. Hopefully, if one of us is making an unsafe recommendation or about to do something stupid, the others will warn us, without needing to start hurling insults.

I'll shut up now.

P.S. - Vote for Ronnie...

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:46 am

When I first discovered this forum I tried alot of the "power" loads for the Colt in a modern 94 rifle. including Pacos top-end loads. pretty hot stuff.that being said when I got My Uberti Sporting rifle I could see no sense to push it at all and wanted to duplicate the original 44-40 load in the .45 Colt. I ordered some 200gr bullets from Desparado and shot them over 13gr of Hodgdon HS6. out of the Uberti 24" barrel it averaged 1350fps,out of My Ruger Bisley Blackhawk 1025fps. this load is from Hodgdon and is below 14,000 cup.good shooter.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:49 am

I'm shooting 35 grains Goex FF under a 200 grain lead bullet with standard large pistol primer. Chronos at 720 fps out of my 1873 Uberti revolver with 4 5/8 inch barrel. Nice accurate load.

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:06 am

My Colt SAA 3rd generation likes the loads below.

260g SWC sized 453 driven by 8.5g Unique - accurate as all hell.
250g RNFP sized 452 driven by 7.8g Universal - again extremely accurate.
For a nice light plinking fun load then 200g RNFP sized 452 driven by 6.8g of 231.

Winchester brass and Win large pistol primers.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:59 pm

Ya know, folks...
THE main reason that I stay here instead of visiting other sites is because of the variety of information AND opinions, without the flaming.

I acknowledge that I'm not the moderator; but we could do without the nasty direct attacks on one's character or mental faculties if there is disagreement; flaming cheapens this forum for all of the rest of us. I, for one, have had to swallow "stuff" for 38 years as a cop, and I've had all I care to take. Let's keep it civil.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:12 pm

Paul Jenkins wrote:Gents?
When I first logged into this board 10 yrs ago,I asked about the Uberti '73 pistol & rifle and was told by most users then to use nothing hotter than a factory load. Evan Uberti said that!. Guess you all know more than the manufacturer. I know I won't come here for RELIABLE INFO again.

The manufacturers are just covering themselves because there are a lot of ignorant people out there. They don't want someone to think it's ok to shoot full house loads out of these guns. Saves the gun company lots of headaches and lawsuits when someone sticks a full power .44 mag load in a SAA and blows it up. The manufacturer can then say, "We recommended only the use of factory power loads in our firearms."

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:30 pm

Some folks here may be quite interested to take a look at the 45 colt data contained in the Lyman 48th edition reloading handbook. More specifically there maybe some here who might be quite surprised by the 2400 data using the hornady 250 gr bullet.....
But then again ,, maybe not..

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:28 pm

shooter wrote:
Paul Jenkins wrote:Gents?
When I first logged into this board 10 yrs ago,I asked about the Uberti '73 pistol & rifle and was told by most users then to use nothing hotter than a factory load. Ev(e)n Uberti said that!. Guess you all know more than the manufacturer. I know I won't come here for RELIABLE INFO again.
The manufacturers are just covering themselves because there are a lot of ignorant people out there. They don't want someone to think it's ok to shoot full house loads out of these guns. Saves the gun company lots of headaches and lawsuits when someone sticks a full power .44 mag load in a SAA and blows it up. The manufacturer can then say, "We recommended only the use of factory power loads in our firearms."

Yes, but that doesn't mean that we SHOULD go out and test the limits of any particular firearm. Guns, like other machined or manufactured products have a "life"... Over which you should expect continued, reliable service. Whatever the "planned obsolecense" is for my Colt SAAs might be, I plan on them giving me more than that! Just because my Camaro has a demonstrated top end of 145mph, doesn't mean that doin' so for extended periods would have given me the nearly 200,000 miles that it has. Just because I can run ammo in my revolver up to 14,000psi, doesn't mean it won't have detrimental effects, "down the road", so to speak!

JohndeFresno wrote:Ya know, folks...
THE main reason that I stay here instead of visiting other sites is because of the variety of information AND opinions, without the flaming.
I acknowledge that I'm not the moderator; but we could do without the nasty direct attacks on one's character or mental faculties if there is disagreement; flaming cheapens this forum for all of the rest of us. I, for one, have had to swallow "stuff" for 38 years as a cop, and I've had all I care to take. Let's keep it civil.

A very big +1

As I stated on page one of this thread, I also feel that 18+ grains of 2400 is excessive for either a SAA action or a toggle-link rifle. However, I have reviewed the information in more of my manuals... and I must adjust my finding, I found the highest recommended loading for 2400 in a 4-¾" Colt SAA in the Hornady 3rd Edition:
200gr SWC @ 17.2 for 1,000fps
260gr JHP @ 16.4 for 950fps

I'm not above experimentation... but not when it's MY Colts that we're talking about. Hornady lists their loadings in 50fps increments... from which I'd deduce that to gain another 50fps, they feel pressures would become excessive... In addition, while I might experiment with my loads, I NEVER recommend those same loads or even loading practices (where my procedure varies from standard conventions), to others... especially in a public forum. Personally, I think it's somewhat irresponsible to make recommendations that one can't substantiate with the backup of printed references. Even then, I believe that one should include the admonishment to ONLY work up to the loads listed from some point well below the maximum...

We should also all remember that each of our guns are individuals... in fact, in your revolvers, are all of its' chambers of identical dimensions? I suspect there will be minute differentations from one chamber to the next. Both chamber dimensions as well as bore diameters vary from one example to the next. And we all know that chamber and bore dimensions bear a tremendous impact on pressures. Both of my 45Colt SAAs have groove diameters of .4515 (at least that's the size of the slug I pushed thru). My throats are all .452 after throating in both guns. Frankly, I've never slugged the bore of either of my Uberti rifles (an 1873 & Henry), so I can't tell you what they are; however, I can tell ya their chambers are quite a bit more generous than those of my Colts.

Now, do I think that the 18+ grains of 2400 with a 250 or 255 grain bullet will make my guns fly apart? No. But, I do wonder just how long it will take for a steady diet of those to shake things loose.

And, FWIW, the tests than have been referred to, were on the 1876 action, not the 1873. The 1876 is a bit more robust, even if it is still a toggle-link. And BP has a different characteristic than smokeless in both its' pressure spike and burn rate.

Again, those are just my opinions, YMMV.

Don McDowell wrote:Some folks here may be quite interested to take a look at the 45 colt data contained in the Lyman 48th edition reloading handbook. More specifically there maybe some here who might be quite surprised by the 2400 data using the hornady 250 gr bullet.....
But then again ,, maybe not..

Don, I don't have a copy of the 48th, but the 49th lists the 240JHC grain @ 17grains for 997fps and a 250JHP @ 16.5 grains as the heaviest loads and bullets for that powder.

Also, those charge weights and bullets are noted as being tested in a "Universal Receiver" and a "Ruger Blackhawk" with a 7-½" barrel. Since no CUP reading is listed by those loads, I'm left to assume they were tested in the Ruger.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:21 pm

Griff those loads are out of the standard 45 colt data, not the Ruger/t/c stuff,keep going towards the back of the book, you'll find stuff there that'll get your attention in short order..
Point is 18 grs of 2400 has been around a long long time.
Thread topic was "your best 45 colt loads"
I gave mine.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:52 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Griff those loads are out of the standard 45 colt data, not the Ruger/t/c stuff,keep going towards the back of the book, you'll find stuff there that'll get your attention in short order..
Point is 18 grs of 2400 has been around a long long time.
Thread topic was "your best 45 colt loads"
I gave mine.

Aye, that's the section I was reading, (pg 390). Apparently they've down-sized their recommendations... again!

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:09 pm

Griff wrote:...Aye, that's the section I was reading, (pg 390). Apparently they've down-sized their recommendations... again!

...changes in propellants?...

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:53 pm

Griff wrote:Yes, but that doesn't mean that we SHOULD go out and test the limits of any particular firearm. Guns, like other machined or manufactured products have a "life"... Over which you should expect continued, reliable service. Whatever the "planned obsolecense" is for my Colt SAAs might be, I plan on them giving me more than that! Just because my Camaro has a demonstrated top end of 145mph, doesn't mean that doin' so for extended periods would have given me the nearly 200,000 miles that it has. Just because I can run ammo in my revolver up to 14,000psi, doesn't mean it won't have detrimental effects, "down the road", so to speak!

I agree 100%. I wasn't advocating testing the limits of a gun, and sorry if I came across that way. I've come across several older load manuals that have a much higher max load than the current manuals do. I don't know the reasoning for this other than the manuals are also trying to cover themselves just to be safe.

I wouldn't advocate feeding a Colt or reproduction a steady diet of above factory loads. You're absolutely right that they will shoot themselves loose over time with higher pressures. I don't even like shooting really hot loads all the time in my Rugers. I will practice a little with hotter loads and use them for hunting, but usually stick with a medium load for the majority of my practice.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:16 pm

I have the impression from reloading my 45-70 that 2400 is faster than it once was. 25 gr of 2400 with a 400 gr Speer 1475 fps. That load was at one time listed as a Cowboy load at 1250.

Old data for the 45 Colt and 2400:
Lyman 46th - from a 7 1/2" barrel - 15.2 grains for 696 fps - 17.5 grains for 814 fps.

Now:
Alliant now shows 15 grains producing 826 fps from a 5 1/2" barrel.

THAT LOOKS LIKE A CHANGE IN THE PROPELLANT TO ME.

So - what Elmer once used - good enough for Elmer good enough for me no longer holds water. Just to mean that the pressures his loads produced then are likely not to produce the same pressures now if we compare the data available at different time. I don't think it being from different guns could produce the differences here. Partly as they favor the older loads not the newer ones.

So - now if someone will chronograph 18 or 18.5 grs of 2400 with a 250 grain jacketed bullet ????? We can know what that produces and compare with pressures necessary to produce that velocity.

I, as usual, am with Griff.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:32 pm

OS, you probably have a point there. I was not aware of the reduced charge with an increase of velocity with some of the powders. The loads I have noticed that have changed have both lowered the charge and the velocity.

jager3 · Post by **jager3** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:00 pm

I can't keep my tongue on this issue, because like many of you I have asked various "experts" what is a good working "max" for the .45 Colt. Most of the time I hear from those that "warn me" to remain under 14,000psi (some, 14,000CUP, which according t my NRA "Handbook" equates to 15,900CUP) or my "Stampede" will literally "blow into little pieces taking my "pinkies" with it. While I appreciate the "cautious approach", I get the feeling that the person that is repeating the cautionary information is more "legally convinced" than "ballistically informed" (Now please do not think I am denigrating anyone on this forum who are sincerely concerned for my physical well being, because I fully understand the reason for being cautious where 139 year old revolvers and rifles may be in use!) I know that unless you own a .45 Colt in a Ruger Black Hawk, Dan Wesson, Freedom Arms, Thompson Contender, etc. you should not use the "high pressure data".) I just know that from my loading black power guns, shotguns, pistols, and rifles over the years there is a lot of "territory" between 14,000psi and 25,000 to 30,000psi that reloading manuals list for specific brands of firearms. (The 45/70 is another cartridge with "multiple personalities".) Even though steels and manufacturer technology has changed a great deal in 139 years it seems like we are asked to ignore any manufacturing and design improvements while really trying to convince ourselves that the "First Generation" Colt was the strongest the design would ever be "housed" in a revolver of this caliber of similar size! It is gratifying to read people like P. O. Ackley who actually experimented with actions to determine where the design strengths were in comparison with what "engineers" hypothesize were there limits. It is also enlightening to read in Ken Waters, "Pet Loads" regarding his categories of I, II, and III "strength" levels of SAA revolvers. Brian Pearce goes further to write about the "never, never" territory of pressures for the New Vequaro that is less than the "big Rugers" but more than the much quoted 14,000psi. He has writen other articles that lists loads for "clones" that is a "grain" or so more than what "manuals" show with specific cast bullets.

It is your "site" that is more "progressive" (as much as I hate that word) regarding the .45 Colt than other sites, that allows discussion about loads that may slightly exceed the often quoted maximum and the possibility that the .45 Colt may emerge beyond its black powder limitations. I have read one of your "posters" (forgot the name) who stated that the .45 Colt brass tends to create more "blow back" in a chamber on a "low powered" load rather than a "max power" load (assuming 14,000psi again) where the chamber is not "sealed" and allows gases to blow past the case because cases are designed thicker and stronger. This information is useful and cannot be found on most forums because if the suggestion even hints of using over the maximum 14,000psi a "father figure" steps in an warns of a possible exceeding manufacturer specs, to be followed up be 5 or 6 more "posters" getting on the "band wagon" and belittling the "newbie" that would suggest such an "unsafe" practice (Saints preserve us!). After you have been warned off from pursuing reloading information on a "wonderful" cartridge that has far more utility than just punching holes, one usually either abandons the forum, the cartridge, or both and moves on to more modern designs where "pinkies" really are at risk (like pushing 60,000psi in a .454 handgun that may be of poor design).

Because of some of you on this forum, I feel more at ease being able to discuss loads for the .45 Colt and have gotten more information out of your discussions about your experiences, having the feeling that most of you have owned as many "manuals" as I (well over three dozen over the last 40 years). It was here that I found out the Italian's use CIP standards rather than SAAMI (US) standard, which at least tells me that Uberti was using loads of (approximately) 16,000psi for their "toggle link" actions and 1873 pistols rather than our "sacred" 14,000psi SAAMI spec! Brian Pearce upped the "anti" to 20,000psi in one of his articles for the 1873 rifle; yet, no manual or manufacturer has "stuck their neck out" to create a new "category" for European made rifles and pistols. We .45 Colt "users" depend on the legal description tagged by the "black powder purist" to justify our "anemic" loads that comply with 1873 specs while taking for granted that it was not possible to overload with black powder and what they used always complied with 14,000psi or less. It's no wonder that companies had to produce new calibers if they were to promote higher velocities, even if there was little difference in the diameter of the bullet or powder capacity of the brass. U.S. calibers seldom developed beyond their SAAMI specs even when brass strength, bullet concentricity, powder burn rates, or primer improvements have been made. Thus, we in the U.S. have been treated to 37,000psi 8X57JS ammo while our European cousins use 50,000+ "improved" loads, 33,000psi .35 Remington loads, as not to blow up a 1930's Remington pump 14 1/2 while "housing" it in a Marlin capably of 44,000psi, etc. My point is I believe the discussion of loading the .45 Colt is for the "advanced" loader and shooter who understands the premise of what criteria the manufactures bases the low 14,000psi criteria. (Would Ruger cover your Blackhawk if it blew up with a load not exceeding 25,000psi listed in an "approved" handbook? Probably not!) This forum addresses many possible loads for the .45 Colt that most will not even discuss and I for one express my appreciation for that "learned" discussion even if some may get their "hackles up" or feel their expertise is in question; it is not by this humble correspondent. ( I have no interest in "Hot roding" my Stampede or 1873 rifle for that extra 50fps; however, if my most accurate load is 1gr more of 2400 or SR4759 to achieve that accuracy, or seal the chamber, I would like to use the load knowing the rifle or pistol can handle the load because it was tested for at least 2,000psi more than 14,000psi SAAMI and someone else has used the load with complete satisfaction. After all, Uberti does make a .45 Colt/.45ACP "convertible" and it is stress for at least 18,000psi. It's a shame that manuals cannot close the "gap", even if manufactures feel they must use the "factory loads only" criteria for their guns. For those that believe that 14,000psi is the beginning and end of the discussion for anything but "Big, oversized" revolver and pistols and your advise for me is the line that, "if you want more power get a .44mag (not my caliber)" I have no "truck" with your opinion. However, I would just warn you to not go too far the other direction with pressure much less than 14,000psi or you may stick a bullet in your bore. I just prayerfully hope you'll be able to tell us just how strong you gun is after you put another round behind the first!

(I've actually seen this done, and not with a .45 Colt!)

Just for clarification, I sold my "big" ruger Blackhawk right after I got my Stampede because I was afraid I would accidently mix my Ruger loads with my new gun. I have enjoyed the .45 much more than I ever did because of using it in the 700 to 1000fps range (7 1/2" BBL) and loads that are "pleasant to shoot". Sorry for the long post, but I feel the .45 Colt has another 139 years ahead of it if we look at it as a thoroughly capable of competing in the 21 century! It not only was the "magnum" of its day, it is one of the most capable cartridges of this day that is more comfortable to shoot in a pistol than a .357 and will leave a bigger hole going in than a .43 caliber anything! I am grateful for whatever useful information that you all provide. Oh, my best loads to date are: 10.5gr/AA5 and 8.7gr/Unique with a 253gr cast bullet (255RF Lee) with a CCI 300 primer and Starline cases.