looking to buy an M1 CARBINE..

[4t5]

Does anyone have a new one from kahr(auto ordanance),are they any good?, or should I get an older gun,nothing collectable just a shooter?

[InTheWoods]

Both are ok, but the majority of folks that post input on this issue indicate going with a GI carbine is the best way to go. You not only get a good rifle, but you have the advantage owning a real piece of history. You are also assured of a continuous supply of parts, should you ever need them.

I have an IBM GI carbine that I bought from the CMP a couple of years ago. It is in great condition and makes a great 'farm gun' for around here. Its performance parallels at warmly loaded 32-20, making it suitable for most any problem one mine have around a homestead. Not only that, they are a blast to shoot!

[gak]

Both are ok, but the majority of folks that post imput on this issue indicate going with a GI carbine is the best way to go. You not only get a good rifle, but you have the advantage owning a real piece of history. You are also assured of a continuous supply of parts, should you ever need them.

I have an IBM GI carbine that I bought from the CMP a couple of years ago. It is in great condition and makes a great 'farm gun' for around here. Its performance parallels at warmly loaded 32-20, making it suitable for most any problem one mine have around a homestead. Not only that, they are a blast to shoot!

+1 I think you'll be happy either way. I don't have personal experience with the A0/Kahrs other than observation that some of the early birch ones were less impressive. Otherwise, have heard stories either way...some with great success others not so much.

My Inland GI--has been completely reliable for 67 years--48 or so of them shooting by me. Don't get to shoot it as much as I used to, but no reason to think it'll let me down next time out or called upon. Again can't speak for the Kahr, but if getting a GI, try to keep with GI mags--preferably 15 rounders (some 30s don't feed quite as reliably...also depending to a degree on whether your gun has a post war/Korean War M2-refit catch). I've got a few of the new Korean 15's that are said to finally be as good as the GIs--we'll see.

[BenT]

I have a Iver Johnson post war one that looked like it spent most of it's time in the closet. Shoots great and only paid $250 for it two years ago.

[tomtex]

Why don't they build them in hand gun chambering?

[junkbug]

I remember conversions to 9mm winchester magnum, or whatever that shorl lived round was called. Very little demand. .357? Rimmed More effort than its worth. Other Rimless handgun cartridges are just to big for what is a narrow action. Not viable. Iver Johnson made a factory wildcat in 5.7mm carbine, a necked down .30 carbine case in .223 cal. Not many sold.

Whether original or new production, the original cartridge is the only one that reliably sells. And even new ones in that cartridge have teething problem.

I really like the M-1 Carbine, and will consider a Kahr if I ever have the money. The truth is that it is a complex design that has to be executed "Just Right" or it will not be reliable. Truly a testement to 1940's USA industrial know how.

[6pt-sika]

I have two of the refitted WWII ones that have been in our family for 50 years now I believe . I think our total cost for the pair was something like $35 shipped .

I've never messed with any of the commercially made ones so i cannot make a comment on them . But our two mil surp ones do very nicely on paper . The one my maternal grnadfather left me was his favourite turket gun with FMJ's .

Inside 50 yards he could put it where he wanted it and the FMJ's would shot right thru with no meat damage but a still dead bird

[olyinaz]

We have two GI carbines and they just work. You can get new stock sets for them if the one yours has looks too bad to take but I like 'em beat up and salty. I've heard nothing bad about the new Kahr-made Auto Ordinance M1 Carbines other than shock at the price and at the range people seem to love 'em when rarely someone is shooting one.

The only Garand action in pistol caliber that I know of is the Ruger Deerfield Carbine. It looks like a beefed up M1.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_deerfield.htm

Something to bear in mind is that an old, pencil barrel Mini 14 is almost as light and handy as an M1 Carbine. If you trim the barrel to 16" on one of those older guns it IS as light and handy as an M1 Carbine and the older models can even be found in 6.8mm SPC and 7.62x39 if you hunt around a bit

Hard to beat a plain old GI M1 however.

Best,
Oly

[veeman]

Why don't they build them in hand gun chambering?

Ruger makes the 30 Carbine round in the Blackhawk, with a 7 1/2" barrel. I have one, my very 1st pistol. Whith factory rounds the muzzle blast is excessive and very loud. With handloads it can be made to be a really nice shooter.

[veeman]

There also was a auto loading pistol made, the AutoMag, if I remember the name right. That one was full of problems and didn't last long tho.

[Old Time Hunter]

Bought two GI WWII issued M1 carbines at a yard sale back in '78 for $20 (for both), one was made by a sewing machine company(Singer?) and the other by Winchester. Both work flawlessly, great 'yote guns.

[damienph]

Mine is an Inland. It has the later bayonet lug attachment and adjustable sights.

I also have a scoped Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. Honestly both are loud.. I do agree with others that the Blackhawk is louder than some and has noticeable muzzle flash but I think that it makes a fun varmint gun and a very effective Coyote gun. I shoot 90gr XTPs in my Blackhawk, while I've only used my Carbine for plinking; shooting cans and rocks.

I've also fired an older Iver Johnson with the metal ventilated handguard. It shot ok and I would buy one if it was priced right.

One more thing about the Blackhawk muzzle flash. it is very entertaining at dusk and impressive in the dark but in daylight it isn't really an issue, even with my 1.25-4x28 scope. As for the noise, I ALWAYS wear ear protection when shooting either of these.

Sort of like my ported 444P Outfitter, doesn't bother me in the least.

[Streetstar]

my local fun store has a pile of GI carbines ........... you guys make them sound like fun, -- Madman's thread on using small carbines for home defense immediately made me think of that rack of old carbines too -- i need to get my mind out of the gutter and finish building my darn house

[JB]

I have a few military issue carbines in my collection and they're fun to play with at the range. Up until recently I had a Johnson M1 carbine in 5.7 Spitfire, the 30 Carbine round necked down to 22. That was a neat little rifle that just never lived up to it's potential.

[Rusty]

One warning to offer would be to stay away from any carbine made by Universal. At first glance they look like a commercial version of a G.I. carbine but almost none of the parts will interchange with a G.I. carbine. Sometimes even G.I. mags won't work properly in a Universal. I like a lot of the M-2 parts on mine if possible. The bolt and mag catch come to mind right off, but then it's been about 35 years since I've fooled with them.
To me it was always like a semi auto .32-20. Good luck.

[6pt-sika]

I looked at the reciepts last night from when my father and grandfather ordered the pair of M1 Carbines from the NRA in 1964 . They cost $17.50 plus $2.50 shipping and handling each !

So the two in my safe cost $40 total !

[Sixgun]

I have a Iver Johnson post war one that looked like it spent most of it's time in the closet. Shoots great and only paid $250 for it two years ago.

For a low cost shooter, the above is the way to go. With beat up originals bringing $500 and nice ones going for 6-10, an Iver Johnson or Universal can be had for $300 or a bit more. These guns are almost always in nice shootable shape. Targetmaster has one right now for $350 and it looks new.----------Sixgun

[COSteve]

I have a '43 National Postal Meter in 'Rock River Arsenal Rebuild' condition (looks just like it came out of the crate from RRA when I opened it 38 years ago) with a high wood stock that I'd love to shoot, however, I see examples of NPMs in conditions much less pristine than mine selling today for $1,200 and up.

I've got the components and equipment to reload thousands of rounds of 30 Carbine but am afraid to shoot them in mine because it's so valuable. That's why I'm considering a AO to use as a shooter. I see that Bud's has them in stock for $653 delivered today. I'll have to think about that really hard.

[gak]

COSteve, I've got an Inland like that only it was NIB when my father (B-29 pilot) found it in a junkyard on Guam. He brought it back on his plane at war's end and they told him he could keep it. We shot it quite a bit over the years but it's still in 90%+ condtion. I took over its stewardship 40 or so years ago, and especially in more recent years I've been feeling the same as you and shoot it much less these days. A number of years ago I picked up a second Inland in decent condition--a rare re-import in such shape, whose arsenal labeling was so tiny I didn't even see it (also under the barrel vs side so further helped it go unnoticed). In any event, it's 95% Inland--also fairly rare to make it through refits, arsenals etc and "stay together"--and has been a gem to shoot and not "feel bad about." So, yes, I encourage you to either pick up the A0 or even one of the re-imports. You can find an occasional diamond in the usual rough!

[COSteve]

Well guys, I guess we're going to find out about how well a NIB Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine is 'cause after looking all over the internet for a decent used M1, either GI or Iver Johnson, I realized that a new Auto Ordnance from Bud's at $651 delivered was actually my cheapest option so, this morning I placed my order for one.

I also ordered a mag pouch from KeepShooting.com that fits on the stock and looks to be a duplicate of the original one I have on my M1 Carbine, plus an OD sling and oiler and a Type II rear sight from Brownells.com because I'm not fond of either the look or the performance of the original flip rear sight it comes with.

My wife actually told me to do it once she found out how much my absolutely pristine 1943 NPM M1 Carbine with an original high wood stock is worth ($1,200+) cause she knows that my son lusts for it as a collector unit once he gets is hands on my whole collection when I'm gone.

She said, rightly I might add, that it makes more sense to get a new shooter than risk my original because I've already got almost 5,000rds of components plus a toolhead for my 650 setup with dies to reload for it and the whole family loves to shoot the carbine (me, my wife, my son, and even my daughter who's sort of a shooter and sort of not depending upon what day it is).

So, after it gets here, I'll swap out the rear sight, add the sling, oiler, and mag pouch, and then take it to the range with all my current 15rd and 30rd mags as well as the 15rd mag that comes with it and wring the sucker out. I'll be sure to write up how it shoots, its accuracy (minute of coffee cup , minute of man , or minute of mountain ) and whether it has any function issues.

If it does, I'm sure I can figure a way to sort them out .................. I hope .

I'll keep you all posted.

[gak]

COSteve, good for you. Looking forward to the reports! Birch or gen-u-wine walnut? For awhile anyway AO/Kahr offered both. Early ones were a bit dry looking/feeling, haven't seen lately. You may be in for an oiling session. With a bit of honest wear, probably won't be able to tell much difference from a GI!

[COSteve]

This one has a gen-u-wine walnut stock and yes, I plan on applying some good oil or maybe some grease I use on the M1 Garand and M14 to help break it in. I've got some full charge loaded ammo I'll use to help break it in as I'm assuming that it will be a bit stiff at first. I just hope that it feeds and extracts well as I can stone anything that needs it to function smoothly.

[rimrock]

I had no desire for an M-1 Carbine until I shot one. It's on the list. Just a sweet handling rifle mainly for fun!!!

rimrock

[gak]

I'm finally getting around to the HBO series "The Pacific" after having it a year--just never found good quality "consecutive" time to give it a worthy viewing. Anyway, LOTS of carbine--and Thompson and Garand action in it. So far haven't seen too many film accuracy glitches on the firearms. The Thompsons start out as 1928A1s (including some drum mags very early on)--correctly with no carbines or for awhile Garands either in '42--transitioning to the M1 Thompson series later. (No Johnsons though!) Hanks and Spielberg both said to be "buffs," so it's nice to see reasonable attention to detail. The carbines actually sound pretty much like they do--maybe applied or enhanced in the edit room but at least not just powered down like cowboy movie guns of old. I was also wondering if they bought up a bunch of AOs as most carbines--at least so far--have been the early war/period-correct flip-peeps. OTOH, the prop folks probably still have a bunch of 'em in stock. (Most of those historically in movies have been bayo and adjustable sight refits...which led me to think AO/Kahr.)

[O.S.O.K.]

Hmmm, I replied to this before but the post is gone... weird - happens sometime. Maybe I hit preview instead of submit... or maybe I inadvertantly cussed? I don't know...

I will add my +1 to getting a genuine US military M1 carbine.

I have a Saginaw and love it. And yeah, it has history.

Buy the real deal. You can use Korean mags, shoot serbian ammo and shoot at targets printed in China but get a real carbine

[COSteve]

Buy the real deal. You can use Korean mags, shoot serbian ammo and shoot at targets printed in China but get a real carbine

Unless you've already got a real GI M1 Carbine that you want to keep pristine and you just want a shooter to knock around with. Then I say buy whatever you can get the best deal on for the condition it's in. With the high prices for the heavily worn GI models you see today, it's tough to not look at a brand new Auto Ordnance at $650 and think, "For a shooter this might be the better choice." That's what I did and I'll let you all know if I chose wisely when mine gets here and I've run it at the range a few times.

[O.S.O.K.]

I am looking forward to the pics and range report!

I thought you could get a milsurp one for $650... have they gone up again?

ETA: no, not really - here's an auction from gunbroker for a nice saginaw currently at $605... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =270602744 and another http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =270071316 I think if you aren't worried about getting a "collectible" manufacturer, you can still find vg condition milsurp ones for $650...

I took a look at the Auto Ordinance ones on auction (new) too - they are very nice looking...

[dsmith512]

I purchased one of the Kahr/AO M1 carbines a couple of years ago. For the most part I love it, but I have encountered some issues. One always get good magazines. I tried some ProMag and they failed to feed and extract reliably. I bought some from Kahr/AO and have had no issues with them.
I also had an issue with lite primer strikes, especially with Aguila ammo. Oddly enough the best ammo mine shoots is that cheap steel cased Wolf ammo. The only way I have been able to over come the lite primer strikes is to keep it frequently oiled and greased. But because of this I would not bet my life with it in a defensive situation.

Oh and if you want to replace the original WWII rear sight with the more advanced adjustable WWII sight, be prepare to build some tooling to push it out of the dove tail. A heavy locktite was applied to the original. I beat, pounded, and nearly tossed it against the wall before I said forget it and just went and built some tooling.

[olyinaz]

I have a Iver Johnson post war one that looked like it spent most of it's time in the closet. Shoots great and only paid $250 for it two years ago.

For a low cost shooter, the above is the way to go. With beat up originals bringing $500 and nice ones going for 6-10, an Iver Johnson or Universal can be had for $300 or a bit more. These guns are almost always in nice shootable shape. Targetmaster has one right now for $350 and it looks new.----------Sixgun

It's been claimed that Universals are more prone to firing out of battery (with the lugs not completely engaged) and that they routinely will not pass a GI armorer's safety check. I don't know, I've never owned one as I don't like them vs. real M1 Carbines due to their cheap stamped parts and poor build quality, but I will say that these reports completely swore me off Universal's. My kid's safety is too precious to risk on one of those hunks of junk.

A good web site: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/index.html

Oly

[COSteve]

I picked my AO M1 Carbine up today. It came configured as a WWII version with the flip sights, no bayo lug, and push button safety. The overall look and fit was decent and the stock is a good, solid piece of walnut. It's got a bit of extra gap at the rear of the receiver but nothing out of the ordinary so all in all I'm really pleased. I swapped out the rear sight for a Type 3 because I prefer it to the flip version, installed the sling and oiler along with the stock mag pouch, lubed it up, and hand cycled it a bunch to loosen it up.

Even though the wind was blowing and gusting about 20 mph and it was in the mid 20's, I still headed for the range to break it in and do a function check (my excuse for just going out and having fun). There was a lot of snow so I didn't put up targets to shoot for groups but rather just had fun with it on our steel plates. It shot pretty well at 100yds breaking in and the 5" steel at 100yds was doable at times even with my old eyes. However, as I said it was too cold to really check out the accuracy.

However, it appears to be about a 2"-3" at 100yd shooter so I'm well pleased with it's performance. All in all I've now got an M1 Carbine that I'm not concerned with shooting and my pristine '43 NPM GI version is officially retired. I'll post pictures later but from a foot away, it looks just like a GI model.

[Mescalero]

I have two, one in .30 Carbine, one 5.7mm Johnson.
The johnson is a hoot to shoot.