OT: Gripping single actions.

[J Miller]

I read posts by folks who can't seam to learn how to shoot single action revolvers on a regular basis. Most of them are used to autos and or DA revolvers so they really don't know how.
But some just like humongous ugly grips on what is otherwise a slim trim and well thought out design and seam to go out of their way to ugly up their guns.

I've been shooting single action revolvers for 40+ years now and I prefer the Colt shape and size. I have no trouble with them at all.
I was thinking of watching the John Wayne movie "THE WAR WAGON" when I noticed the picture on the front of the CD.

Gripping SA JW and KD web.JPG

The image on the cover was reversed so I flipped it back to correctly view it.
We know that John Wayne had huge hands and in this pic you can see that Kirk Douglas apparently did too. Yet both of them have all their fingers on the grip. Neither is using the pinky under hold.
Yes I know they were firing blanks but I'd be willing to bet both of them were fairly proficient with this type of gun and live ammo. And I'd also be willing to bet neither of them had Pachmayrs or Hogue rubber baby buggy bumpers on their's either.

At any rate I thought this pic with these two holding their SAs would be of interest.

Joe

[AJMD429]

With the Ruger single-action grips, there is simply no WAY I could use them without the "pinky under" hold; that's why I want larger grips.

I don't like that "fill in behind the trigger guard" thing, either, that some of the after-market grips have; it just puts your hand even lower, and if there was room for all your fingers on the grips, they get slid down enough there probably isn't once you use those kinds of grips.

I just like the idea of regular "plowhandle" single-action grips - only BIG enough that you can use all your fingers, and thick enough in the middle under the palm that your PALM bears some of the recoil, instead of your middle-finger knuckle vs. the rear of the trigger-guard.

I'm hoping to get a Bisley grip for my Super Blackhawk to test and compare soon. I got to hold one the other day in a store, and at least I could get ALL my fingers around it . . .

[Malamute]

For just plain feel I like the standard size grips on Rugers or Colts, tho for heavy loads, a longer grip frame does help some, especially if you shoot one handed. The most comfortable SA grip for me that was longer is the Freedom Arms grips. I traced a pair of grips from one and modified a super Blackhawk grip frame to match it. Havent put it on a gun yet, I want to get some decent grip panels for it first. I really really dont like the factory grips on any Ruger I've ever seen. Besides all the square edges, and poor fit to the frame, I just don't care for the way they look.

Part of my little finger and heel of my hand hang over a little, but I've never put the little finger underneath.

The Bisley grips frames have always felt odd to me, never warmed up to them. Had several guns with them, but got rid of them quickly.

I also never cared for the oversize aftermarket grips, or the rubber ones.

[Jeff H]

I am not a big guy and don't have big paws either, so I have always gotten along with the Ruger XR3 or XR3-RED just fine.
My OM SBH wore a stainless Old Army grip frame, even when shooting 310 LEEs and my OM .45 Colt sported the XR3-RED.
I have had four Ruger Bisleys (2 SBHs, 1 ,44 mag old Vaquero and the new .44 Special) and there's just too much real estate there for me - I didn't seem to ever grip them the same way twice and was always looking for the "right spot." Same for the SBH grip.
I can get all my fingers on the standard grip, the only exception being that I replaced the skinny plastic grips on my FT .44 Special with some slightly fuller wood from Cary Chapman.

[J Miller]

AJMD,

I just read the other day that Bill Jordan actually used 1860 Colt grips on his Colt SAAs because they were longer. He had bear sized paws.

Have you ever considered the Ruger Hunter type grip frame? It's basically the SBH dragoon frame but with a rounded trigger guard. Gives you a standard type grip, but with a longer area to hang on to.

Jeff,
There is a world of difference between the XR3 and XR3-RED grips. They look the same to a lot of folks, but there is one blatant difference. There is almost a 1/4" more distance between the handle of the grip and the back of the trigger guard. I've had fits with that grip design because I can't seem to grip it in a consistent manner.
I find myself using my trigger finger as additional support as I hold the gun.
To me this additional space moves the gun forward and throws the balance way off.
I've gone to the expense of retro fitting all my Old Model Ruger SAs to the original XR3 grip frame.
Once I did that my accuracy increased significantly.

Another thing is the trigger finger. If your putting the bullets constantly to the left and you're right handed, (or visa versa) you've got too much finger on the trigger.
What has worked for me, and I've read many other comments by others as well, is to center of the first pad on the trigger, no more. Then pull the trigger straight back.

Joe

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I've been shooting single actions for over 40 years too. And I learned a long time ago that if I did not want to get my knuckle whacked by the trigger guard in recoil, I had better leave a little bit of space between the rear of the trigger guard and the knuckle of my middle finger.

I dunno how much the Duke or Kirk Douglas actually fired single actions, it's a posed picture anyway, but I guarantee you that if they held them that way, with their fingers all crammed up next to the trigger guard, and they were firing real Black Powder loads, they were gonna get their knuckles whacked.

I can shoot Black Powder 45 Colt loads all day long because I curl my pinky under the grip. Without all 4 fingers crammed onto the grip, it allows me to shift down a little bit, leaving about 1/4" of space between the trigger guard and my knuckle.

Holding on to the grip with just my thumb and two fingers is plenty. The guns ain't jumped out of my hand yet, and I shoot them a lot, with heavy recoiling full house Black Powder loads.

[Pete44ru]

FWIW, and IMO, shooters used to slab-sided autos and/or DA revolvers become "concerned" or dismayed when a SA revolver rotates up/back under recoil - LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO !

I've always let my SA's pivot/rotate on my third finger's base - and have never had fingers bruised, even by Super BlackHawk's with full-charge loads. (I can't say as much for my eardrums, though )

The light-recoiler's, like .22's, are harder to manipulate because they have less power/ and ergo, rotation.

The rotation "should" put the down/fired hammer under the thumb, ready to speedily cock for the next shot - a decided advantage, when needed.
The little finger under the gripframe simply adds leverage to the cocking effort - adding emphasis to the term "throwing down" on someone/something.

.

[Griff]

What Driftwood & Pete said. Plus, and it's a real biggie for that follow up shot, with only two fingers actually gripping the gun, the gun rolls upward on recoil allowing me to get my thumb in position and as the gun falls back horizontal due to barrel weight, I can either put my thumb in front of the hammer and let the momemtum cock it; or just lower it slowly to a point where I can aim with my thumb in position to cock it.

[Old Ironsights]

What Driftwood & Pete said. Plus, and it's a real biggie for that follow up shot, with only two fingers actually gripping the gun, the gun rolls upward on recoil allowing me to get my thumb in position and as the gun falls back horizontal due to barrel weight, I can either put my thumb in front of the hammer and let the momemtum cock it; or just lower it slowly to a point where I can aim with my thumb in position to cock it...

Triple Dittos.

That's how I used to shoot my FA .454 with my 350/31 gr "Polar Bear" loads... much to the surprise of all who watched .

Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom

Loose grip, let the gun "roll", take the secondary recoil on the elbow pivot, thumb the hammer on the down-recovery.

Boy, do I miss that gun...

[COSteve]

Griff, either that guy has tiny hands or the grip on that pistol is huge! Look at the space between his little finger and the bottom of the grip!

[M. M. Wright]

I shoot almost full-house black powder 44-40 loads for SASS and use the pinky under the grip frame. Don't have big hands. Sometimes shoot gunfighter (one in each hand) and the roll-up for the thumb cock before the next shot is handy.
You used to find a 1st gen Colt with the army grip frame on it once in a while but I think collectors have changed most of these back to standard (navy) grip frames. I own several 1st gen Colts and am amazed at the difference in grip frames from year to year.

M. M.

[RSY]

it's a posed picture anyway...

That, and it's highly possible that a good chunk of it is actually a painting/drawing.

[J Miller]

it's a posed picture anyway...

That, and it's highly possible that a good chunk of it is actually a painting/drawing.

It's actually taken from the scene where JW and KD kill the bad guys in the street of Lonedado (sp). Most likely is a painting or a heavily photo shopped picture.
Next time you watch the movie slo mo it at this point and you'll see.

As for getting my knuckles bashed when gripping a SA high and tight I don't. Usually when I'm gripping low with the pinky under is when I get clobbered. It all depends though on which gun I'm shooting and what loads.
As I said above I have the XR3 grips on my OM BH .45 and I still shoot the 300gr + heavy loads from it. With much less discomfort than when I shoot the XR3-RED grips the gun came with.
I think it was Skeeter that said the XR3-RED just gives the trigger guard a run at your knuckles. Who ever said that, I agree with them.

Joe

[AJMD429]

For just plain feel I like the standard size grips on Rugers or Colts, tho for heavy loads, a longer grip frame does help some, especially if you shoot one handed. The most comfortable SA grip for me that was longer is the Freedom Arms grips. I traced a pair of grips from one and modified a super Blackhawk grip frame to match it.

If you can post a scan of the tracings, that would be interesting to compare the two.

Have you ever considered the Ruger Hunter type grip frame? It's basically the SBH dragoon frame but with a rounded trigger guard. Gives you a standard type grip, but with a longer area to hang on to.

I thought the "Hunter" was basically a Bisley grip; I'll have to look at the Ruger website again...

There is a world of difference between the XR3 and XR3-RED grips. . . I've gone to the expense of retro fitting all my Old Model Ruger SAs to the original XR3 grip frame.

Maybe since I have longer fingers you could send me those unused XR3's...

Another thing is the trigger finger. If your putting the bullets constantly to the left and you're right handed, (or visa versa) you've got too much finger on the trigger.
What has worked for me, and I've read many other comments by others as well, is to center of the first pad on the trigger, no more. Then pull the trigger straight back.

When I use the ordinary "Super Blackhawk" frame (I think it was actually an XR3), the trigger meets my finger behind the first crease (i.e. in the middle of the three finger sections). That's why I made those 'custom' grips when I was a kid, to shift my hand rearward, and to enlarge the grip diameter.

I've always let my SA's pivot/rotate on my third finger's base - and have never had fingers bruised, even by Super BlackHawk's with full-charge loads.

I do let the gun 'go up' - only braking the rise enough to make it stop when the barrel is pointing about straight up. The problem is for me that the grips are so skinny that there is not enough pressure/contact between the palm and the grip-hump to start the 'flip' upwards until the gun has moved rearward and rapped my knuckles firest. When I fatten-up the grip in back it helps avoid that.


IT SOUNDS LIKE MOST OF US HAVE SUCH DIFFERENT HAND DIMENSIONS that the gun companies should simply offer "small, medium, and large" grips, perhaps with spacers allowing alteration in length-of-pull.

All that attention paid to length-of-pull with rifles and shotguns for 13-1/2" vs. 14-1/2" seems funny when you think that just a bit of change in elbow flexion easily corrects that, whereas if a person's index finger is 5" vs 4", that isn't something adjusting the stance or grasp can really compensate for.

It sounds like the folks who have hands that 'fit' whatever SA revolver they learn to shoot with become 'addicted' to the form and fit and fun of the SA revolver, and the other folks have to either just put up with pain or poor fit, or do some fiddling to get something that works for them.

I got the Ruger Bisley grip panels today from vintagegungrips.com, but the frame will take another month most likely.

What I really would like is a conventional 'angle' grip that is 'rearward' like the XR3, but fuller in size like the Freedom Arms, and longer like the Bisley. . . maybe I'll get me a forge, and start making my own custom grip frames.

[Jeff H]

......There is a world of difference between the XR3 and XR3-RED grips. They look the same to a lot of folks, but there is one blatant difference........Joe

I don't mean to imply they are the same, but I do try to avoid some of the debates over which of the two is "better," because while I have owned both, and both at the same time, I have gotten along with either just fine. Either works for me because neither is as long or "tall" as the SBHs and Bisley-types. So, my "grouping" of the two is really based on that aspect alone and not meant to blurr the differences for anyone who doesn't already know. I honestly don't even prefer one over the other, just as long as it's not one of the much bigger (though different in many other ways as well) SBH or Bisley.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I curl my pinky under the grip regardless of whether I am shooting Colts, Uberti Cattlemen, Ruger Blackhawks, Ruger (old model) Vaqueros, or New Vaqueros. All the grips are a bit different in shape, but I shoot them all the same way.

HOWEVER.........when shooting my Remington 1858 C&B revolvers with conversion cylinders and full house 45 Colt Black Powder loads, I will admit that the guns are uncomfortable to shoot. I have not nailed down yet exactly what is different, but something is. Because of this, I don't change my grip, but I do limit my shooting with those revolvers to 45 Schofield cartridges with lighter bullets and considerably less powder in them. That makes them comfortable for me to shoot.

When shooting my Pietta 1860 Colt Army replicas C&B, I'm not sure what I do. The 1860 Army grip is about 1/4" longer than the standard SAA grip. I think I do cram my entire hand onto the grips with them. If I curl my pinky under it is hard to reach the hammer spur. However, shooting a 44 caliber round ball in front of about 30 grains of FFg the recoil is so light that there is no problem with knuckle bashing. They don't recoil any more than a mild 38.

[kimwcook]

My pinky goes under my grips when shooting my Colt SAA's. Now my FA 83 and Ruger Bisley get all my fingers on the grip because they're big enough I can do that.

[Old Ironsights]

Here's how I've always done it. If I close my eyes and grab a single action this is how it always comes out.

I have long fingers but average size hands.