Gun Safeties? Liability?

[Old Savage]

If you alter the safety on a rifle are you opening yourself up to more liability if you or another person has and accident with it resulting in injury to another person?

[JimT]

This is America. Anything is Possible.

[Leverluver]

Pretty much guaranteed. If you alter it, make sure that you can put it back to original or have it buried with you in the same box. Even after your demise, they can come after your estate.

I got rid of the rebound hammer but also have the parts to go back.

[J Miller]

In my "opinion" you've got a 50/50 chance of getting reamed no matter what. If the accident is grossly negligent I think the prosecutors on the one hand and the civil lawyers on the other hand will take you to the pea patch regardless of weather the safety was there or not.

Like JimT said, anything can happen.

Those of us, myself included, must realize that when we remove or alter safeties, we are taking our own lives in our own hands and that no one is going to be in our corner. In other words, we are on our own.

I suppose we should either leave the safeties alone, or just confine ourselves to those rifles made prior to the introduction of the safeties. That is why I will state my opinions, and I will relate what I have done, but I do not tell or suggest to others to do these things. I leave that decision up to them.

Now, as for others using my guns, I learned a lesson at the gun range a couple years ago. PEOPLE ARE STUPID, do not assume or trust that they know anything about guns just because they are at the gun range shooting. I find out what people know about guns like mine before I let them shoot them.
It's called CYA.

AS USUAL> JMHO.

Joe[

[Mike-in-WV]

If you alter the safety or trigger you are asking for trouble no matter how you look at it if you were to shoot someone by accident or in self defense.
If the prosecutor is anti gun nut he will look for every possible way to nail you and the same for the lawyer of the person or persons suing you.
They will hammer to the jury or Judge how you made that weapon unsafe by purposely altering the weapon without regards to the consequences or safety to others . If you had an accidental shooting and all safety measures are still in place and met by you, they would have little to argue about. If you shot someone in self defense with a legal and factory operational weapon they would have little to bitch about if all other laws were adhered to.
The safety on these newer Winchesters and Marlins don't bother me at all. I have several bolt action rifles and shotguns and all of them have safeties and alway have from the day I bought them new many, many, years ago.The safety on them never bothered me either so there is no reason to let my Trapper safety bother me.
There is a simple solution to what I feel is a small problem blown all out of proportion....Don't buy guns with safety's you don't like or just get used to them and quit nit picking Mike

[donw]

i would say you have a 99% percent chance of being liable if you change, alter, modify or eliminate any factory safety device installed when you take delivery of the firearm. (from a licensed FFL dealer, that is; i'm assuming the firearms are purchased thru a licensed dealer)

as stated, anti-gun prosecutors will go to ANY length to prosecute. i believe that they would twist, disort and mislead if they thought they could get away with it. IMO, that's why i choose to use FACTORY standard loaded ammo and a FACTORY 'tuned' firearm for my 'self-defense' firearms.

[Swampman]

An excellent point. I don't think I'll alter mine after all.

[Lastmohecken]

The problems with the leverguns is so many of us have cut our teeth on older guns without safetys, that it is very common and anoying to get a click, when you need a boom.

But whoever said, just don't buy a gun with a safety, has a good point. That is pretty much what I have done. I look for the older guns, and I will pay more for the older guns. If everyone voted with their checkbook, the gun companines would think twice before adding safetys. but too many people knuckle under and continue to purchase the new guns regardless of how many safetys get added.

I would not however, remove a safety on a gun carried or kept strictly for self defense, and that is one place were maybe it makes sense. But if you have a crossbolt safety on your trapper for self defense, you better darned well be thinking about it, because if it goes click instead of boom, it might cost you more then money, it might cost you your life in the wrong siduation. It also could cost you your life if it goes click instead of boom, in the rare event that you were carrying one for bear defense, and got surprised at close range.

[jbm1968]

I have alot of thoughts on this subject but you all hit them all

I have not "modified" any of my levers on a permanent basis. I have used the small O ring to disable my Marlin 45-70 when it was on "Bear" Duty but not otherwise. In the past, My first Combat Commander had the grip safety pinned (by me) but I went back and undid that modification.

Vote with your wallets!

[ccw9mm]

This is America. Anything is Possible.

And in southern Calif. it's almost assured, if anything goes wrong. I'm sure it would be taken as prima facie evidence you intended the bad things to have happened.

[donw]

incidently, the 1894c i purchased from a 'big 5' sporting goods store has an excellent trigger. in fact it's nearly a "hair" trigger. i would not modify it and i can live with the cross bar safety.

[GANJIRO]

My new Trapper with old hammer will be buried, wait a minute i'm being cremated and dumped in Kailua Bay, I guess my Trapper gets dumped too.

[Mike D.]

Far too late to warn me.

[Charles]

If you alter the safety on a rifle are you opening yourself up to more liability if you or another person has and accident with it resulting in injury to another person?

The answer to your question is "yes" and "no". If you modify a safety and an an AD occures, you are more likely to be sued. However, the Plantiff will have to prove to the judge or jury, the AD was a NG due to the modification. In legal terms, the safety modification was the "proximate cause" of the discharge and injury.

You asked if you could experience "more" libility. If you mean by that a greater amount of money the answer is "no". There is a slim chance the plantiff would argue the safety modification was "gross negligence". Gross negligence is such a degree of negligence to be "tantamount" to being wilful. If gross negligence could be proved, the damages could be much more.

The bottom line is the modification of a factory safety is risky business. There is no risk as long as nobody gets shot, but let somebody get shot and you will wish you had not done it.

That said... I am sitting here with a Browning Hi-Power beside the computor that has had the magazine disconnect safety removed. I am comfortable with that, as it would take a AD/ND with the magazine removed for me to have problems. That is a risk worth taking..for me!

The removal of the magazine disconnect safety in the Hi-Power improves the trigger pull to a marked degree. I would not remove the cross bolt safety on Marlin leverguns as some do, for purely cosmetic reasons. There is not enough to be gained to be worth the risk.

Your gun, your life, your money, your choice!

[J Miller]

Your gun, your life, your money, your choice!

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

Joe

[Lastmohecken]

Well, personally I think the risk is low, very low anyway, because I am not going to shoot anyone by accident with my modifed trapper, because I use my brain when I use my guns.

The way I see it, I risk a lot more, every time I crawl into a automobile, to head done the road, and espacally if I decide to ride my Harley, so the removal of a cross bolt safety, on a Winchester, when the ones that came before it, got by without one for the first hundred years, is a non issue for me. Risk is part of life.