OT: What hoops do YOU have to jump through?

[AmBraCol]

As mentioned in the link up in the stickies, http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=31407, some of the guys are taking an interest in helping us to improve the defensive situation down here. I've been checking with the Army store as to what's available and what papers are necessary. A Hatsan pump shotgun with pistol grip can be had for somewhere around $2,100 US (depending on exchange) and a Baikal single shot shotgun can be had for around $1,000. The paperwork required goes from a certificate from a certified testing outfit that states I'm physically and mentally able to handle a firearm to copies of my bank statements and a letter from my accountant certifying source and amount of income. My membership in the Shooting and Hunting federation should do as a replacement for a certificate of a firearms handling course. And there's a few other things as well that escape my attention.

A couple weeks back one of the guys at the gun club told me about a man in Bogotá who is an authorized Beretta importer. He's the only guy in the country who can import Beretta shotguns (no pistols, rifles or carbines, only sporting arms - shotguns) An e-mail was dispatched. Two weeks later, nothing. Today I sent a "Hello?" type note, with the former e-mail attached. Apparently my former e-mail got stashed under a stack of holiday e-mail or who knows what. Anyway, he fired an answer back, and included the attached Power Point Presentation http://www.paulmoreland.com/share/beretta.ppsx listing models and prices. Yowza! I knew they wouldn't be cheap, but {gasp, cough, choke} talk about salty prices! No word on paperwork required other than "choose the model and we'll send you the info to fill out"...

Shooting sports are DEFINITELY an elitist activity down here. Defense is the main object, but the ability to head out with some of the guys to bust birds or clays on occasion would make for a welcome break from the usual routine. And they will come for the sporting weapons last, which is why the Berettas sounded better than the defense only pistol gripped riot guns. Time will tell what we end up doing.

[Hobie]

Salty prices indeed!

[gamekeeper]

Wow and I thought we had it bad in the UK.

[JerryB]

My prayers that it will work out for you Paul. It kinda makes me think about the stuff in our safe that never gets used.

[AJMD429]

Any one of a dozen stores within a 30 minute drive will have a Mossberg 500 pump 12 gauge for around $200 or so. Fill out the federal "it's-not-really-registration" form, and take it home right now, unless your telephone background-check fails.

Lots of 'liberals' really HATE Indiana. . .

[waz]

The clowns down here have run out of locally supplied hoops for us to jump through and are now importing them.

This is for manually repeating longarms (except PA stotguns)
*Genuine reason must be established (personal protection is not a genuine reason). Either written permission from a property owner or club membership (4 shoots per year minimum).
*Certified safety course must be undertaken and passed.
*For each firearm purchase - a Permit to Acquire form must be completed (with a reason as to why any other previously owned firearm will not be sufficient). The Authorising Officer can decline a PTA for no reason eg .338LM are no longer being authorised in South Australia.
*Regular, random inspections of storage facilities. (there is a whole different set of laws relating to how they must be stored)

Hand guns must be used for competition but there are conditions (>120mm barrel, <10 shot mags, <.40cal). You can get >.45cal exemption if you shoot the comp for this.
Semi-autos and PA shotguns are basically banned ....it's complicated.

Criminals have exemption status from all these requirements.

Waz

[AJMD429]

Unfortunately, about 30% of the population around here is of the 'statist' type, and would just LOVE those kinds of restrictions to be enacted here in the U.S., and another 60% are too 'involved' in televised sports, trips to the shopping mall, or Entertainment Tonight, to have a clue what it is all about, or even care about it if they understood it.

That leaves about 10% of us who are theoretically "pro-gun", however, only about one per cent of us do much of anything politically, so about 1/1000th of the population here is protecting the freedom of the rest...

[Paladin]

For normal firearms we fill out a form at time of purchase and after a phone call to the FBI center to check our background we walk out with them. For machine guns and silencers we have to fill out two forms, two fingerprint cards, get the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for the area you live in saying it is legal, send them into ATF with $200 for the transfer tax, and wait for the background check before we pick them up. Same for Destructive Devices like Hand Grenades, rockets, and explosive rounds for the big guns.

[Blaine]

Have money, pass phone check, have WA carry permit, and walk out same day with anything that is legal, and everything except the usual No-Nos are legal here in Washington. I can strap the new handgun on my belt and open wear it home, if I choose. Washington is a bit liberal, but not as bad as many, many places.

[Mike D.]

Down here in "Commie-pornya" we have the dreaded 10 day waiting/cooling off period. I only buy C&R firearms for which there in no wait, no tax, nada. Guns are routinely sent to my home or ranch offices. No problem in that respect, but I despise the worthless joke of a 10 day hosing.

[pwl44m]

Buy the Gun, fill out paper work, answer a bunch of questions- first answer is Yes ( is the gun being purchased for You ) then about 10 No's and the last one is left blank. Pay $25 for a background check and wait 10-24 hour periods. If You buy the Gun at 2:00 pm on any given day, then 10 days later at 2:00 pm U can pick it up, not until. That is a real crime stopper. I sold a friend a 45 auto 10 days ago somewhere around Noon. He was in the store when they opened this morning at 11:oo am, 4 hours early. He had to leave and go back when it was time. They make U wait 10 days for a cooling off period and get U fired up again at the last minute.
Anyhow that is our hoops. BTW if buying a handgun U have to have something to prove U live at that address ie car registration, Utility bill. anything with Your Name and address as it appears on Your Drivers License. Oh if it is a handgun U have to buy a lock and if a long gun U have to certify that U have a Gun Safe that meets the States standards. I think I covered it all.

[pwl44m]

Hey Mike D did U go to the Yuba City Gun Show ?

[Mike D.]

Negative, Perry. I finally got word that the rice was harvested and the field flooded for hunting, so that's where the last several days were mostly spent. Ducks and geese rule until the end of January. Hopefully, the old '97 and 3"model 12 Winchesters work as they always have. Steel shot has no effect on modified chokes.

[stretch]

Here in Maine it's like Blaine says it is in Washington.

Fill out the Fed "not a registration form", pass the telephone
background check, hand over the dosh, and ya can wear it
home - as long as you're not stopping at the Post Office,
picking your kid up from school, or going to the Federal
building in town.

-Stretch

[AmBraCol]

Some interesting input from different points of the globe. Interesting in that Down Under you can't use "self defense" as a "reasonable justification". Here it's about the ONLY justification, and if you can make the case strong enough you can even qualify for full auto such as the CZ 75 select fire or the CZ Scorpio or an Uzi - IF you can make the case AND come up with the $$$.

I posted this as it is something too many folks in the US don't stop to think about - for all its faults and problems, our system up there is not too bad when compared with the idiocy in most other parts of the globe. AND there has been progress on many fronts. My first store bought pistol, purchased as soon as I turned 21, required a "Permit to Purchase" from the county sheriff in MO where I lived at the time. Three business days later I could pick up the permit, go to the store and pick up the pistol. That idiocy is now history in MO. Carrying a loaded weapon in the car was verboten back then. It is now acceptable for anyone over 25, even if you do not have a carry license. We are still a long way from the intent of the Second Amendment - but many battles HAVE been won over the past few decades. Let's keep up the good fight.

Meanwhile, I'm down here and the situation is getting tougher by the year. It's been three years since they prohibited the transfer of legal firearms between individuals. There are a lot of hoops one can jump through to transfer a "sporting weapon" between members of the shooting federation, but I know no one who has managed to do so. Firearms through the Army stores are limited to self defense type only. And, as shown above, the only sporting weapons authorized for import are expensive and the process of importation is long.

It's interesting to hear what all goes on in other parts of the world. Thanks for sharing, guys!

[Malamute]

Wyoming, where even the liberals have guns.


No kidding.

Pay the nice gun store person, they make the call, usually about 3-5 minutes, if you're a good boy or girl you get to walk out the door. No fee for the check. I guess they can do a computer version of the check that's even faster. If you have a carry permit, you don't have to do the call in or computer in check.

Open carry is OK, other than the usual places like post offices, courthouses, bars (that may have changed) and federal buildings. It isnt done a lot in towns, but doesnt raise much attention when done. Out of town open carry is fairly common if out walking/hiking/hunting/fishing or whatever. I carry a sixgun and rifle when out in the hills, it doesnt seem to raise much attention the few times I've run into anyone. There's concealed carry permits, tho there's also been some movement towards not needing a permit. Some people get them simply because they don't have to do the background check when they buy a gun.

As I understand it, Montana is the same in most regards, tho if you are out of a city, town mining camp etc, you can carry concealed without a permit if you're engaged in a legitimate outdoor activity like,......hiking, walking your dog, fishing, or whatever. Never ever heard of anyone getting in trouble for carrying concealed without a permit out in the hills, the guidelines are pretty wide open, the main thing is being out of a town.

[RIHMFIRE]

the only thing i cant buy is a class 3 weapon....fullauto..
and i aint interested in them anyway...fun to shoot but to many $$$ to feed them..
I like the sporting, hunting and cowboy stuff...
otherwise I can buy and have just about anything..
and no waiting period for me...
I got a cwp

[gamekeeper]

Here in Nanny State Briton you have to apply to the police for two certificates one for shotguns and one for firearms, that is if you want both.
Shotgun certificates are easy to get compared to firearm certificates. You have to have a sound reason for owning any type of gun and self defense is NOT an option.
We have to have references from two people to prove we are not nutters and the police can check our medical records too.
If you are lucky enough to get a firearm certificate each firearm has to be listed and applied for, you just can't decide you need another 30/30 and pop out and buy one, you have to ask the police and wait maybe 8 weeks for a reply. If you already have a 30/30 you will need a very good reason for wanting another one.
As for handguns, cap n ball OK, anything else, well even I haven't the patience to try for one, it would be easier for me to buy nuclear weapons!!

[olyinaz]

Criminals have exemption status from all these requirements.

Exactly. The only thing that gives me any peace is reading the Bible to remind myself that local government has been a clown act since time immemorial.

Arizona politics are a farce but gun owners do speak loudly and carry a heavy baton here. Full auto and short barreled rifles are common and seem to be "shall issue" rather than "if we feel like it" - I don't know of anyone who has been denied, everything else is unquestionably shall issue, instant background checks - no fee, FFL transfers for internet buying are $15-25 with lots of choices, open carry is allowed but frowned upon in-town because concealed carry is also allowed without a permit (no Texas BBQ history here and most city folk view open carry as some sort of ego trip), CCW permits (which give you a few more rights than standard concealed carry laws) are shall issue, gun shop on every corner, prices good, no ammo shortage, etc. etc.

The only good thing about the buffoonery going on down in Mexico is that it has driven Arizona politics to the right. Works for me!!

Oly

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Here in Texas, if a buyer has a CHL (texas permits are called Concealed Handgun License) the only requirement is the 4473. The FBI NIC's call-in isn't required.

A little known fact that most folks aren't aware of is the 4473 does not go to the ATF. It stays in the dealers files until he retires or closes his gun business.

[AJMD429]

A little known fact that most folks aren't aware of is the 4473 does not go to the ATF. It stays in the dealers files until he retires or closes his gun business.

I think a couple of years ago though, the ATF was habitually going to dealers and copying ALL their 4473's, under some "public safety" or "anti-terrorism" guise, and when dealers objected, they were threatened with "an audit from hell".

When confronted with the fact that it was illegal to collect the information in that fashion, I believe the ATF extended the middle finger to the courts, and they backed down.

I don't know if such collection and retention of information is still going on, but I wouldn't be surprised...

[txpete]

Here in Texas, if a buyer has a CHL (texas permits are called Concealed Handgun License) the only requirement is the 4473. The FBI NIC's call-in isn't required.

A little known fact that most folks aren't aware of is the 4473 does not go to the ATF. It stays in the dealers files until he retires or closes his gun business.

+1 TEXAS gotta love it.
I shoot more military rifles than anything else.I go to the gun show buy what I want and head out the door.its rare that I buy from a dealer.