OT: Any Masons here?

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:12 pm

I was recently initiated into the fraternity and so am wondering if there are any other Brothers here?

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:21 pm

DON'T KNOW ABOUT MASONS BUT I HAVE A BALL WATCH.....rimshot,
BA BA BA BOOM !!

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:28 pm

Brother Mike: I entered on 9/27/1989; passed on 11/291989; raised on 1/31/1990. Glad you have seen the light....

bfm · Post by **bfm** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:33 pm

friendship lodge, massachusetts lucky 13th district

Brendan

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:51 pm

Hello Brothers and comedians

I knew there had to be a few Brothers here. I met several last night at my gun club, including the husband of 1 of the women I work with. Guns and Free Masonry, what an American combination.

Paul Revere, Ben Franklin and George Washington to name just 3 Masons in the Revolution.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:14 pm

Got my letter of acceptance last week.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:18 pm

Mike, you've tossed out the bait, so I'll bite.

Why would someone wish to be a Mason?

My grandfather was a mason, but he never spoke to me about it.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:36 pm

I wanted to improve myself and give something back to my community. There ia lot to learn in Masonry and through it the outside world. One of the tenets of Masonry is "Making good men better"

Is he still alive? If so ask him about it. It's not a secret but there are some secrets in Masonry.

If you or anyone else is interested, just ask a Mason.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:41 pm

Tycer wrote:Got my letter of acceptance last week.

Good deal, when do you get initiated? Have you been interviewed already?

WV or at least my district doesn't send out a letter. I got a call from the W.M., Worshipful Master, asking when the committee could come by for a visit.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:44 pm

Initiation is tomorrow.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:48 pm

Mike,

Do you have to be sponsored? What is the process if one would be interested in becoming a Mason?

Thanks,
Steve

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:49 pm

homefront wrote:Mike, you've tossed out the bait, so I'll bite.

Why would someone wish to be a Mason?

My grandfather was a mason, but he never spoke to me about it.

The Masons try very hard to weed out the folks that are not of the highest integrity. All of the Masons I've known are outstanding human beings.

I joined because I want to be part of an international association of good guys. Most anywhere you travel, you can find help or friendship in the local Masons.

45-70- · Post by **45-70-** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:58 pm

If it is such a good organization, why all the secrecy? I think history would prove nothing good comes from secret groups. There is a mason building in the next town over. Its very elegant on the outside but what bothers me most is the upside down star within a circle built into the stonework. There are also no windows in this 2 story building. Really makes on wonder what goes on inside that they have to keep so secret about. You guys that belong wanna explain? I am not looking to pick a fight, just wondering. The teachings seem backwards. If you wanted to do good and attract other good people, why be secret about it?

Poohgyrr · Post by **Poohgyrr** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:24 pm

Mike and Tycer, I'm not the Master, but don't believe he will mind if I extend a Welcome from Tehama Lodge #3, Sacramento, Grand Lodge of Ca. Let me know if you ever travel here and we'll be happy to show you around or just say hello.

It might be interesting to attend other initiations, at your Lodge or others, when the opportunity comes up. Dittos for being Passed and Raised; it's a different view of the ceremony. I usually see something that I had not seen for a while, or had forgotten about.

I am amazed at how much good has been done by members of this fraternity over all the centuries, and at how many Brothers are out there, and here at Leverguns.

Welcome again.

Poohgyrr · Post by **Poohgyrr** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:54 pm

45-70- wrote:If it is such a good organization, why all the secrecy?

Some folks can explain things better than myself, and not to take away from the thread...

For what it's worth, our temple building was completed in 1918, in plain sight right downtown on J Street. Two big signs out front and one is lit. We are in the phone book, and have plenty of windows in our 5 or so stories. And yes, we have secrets, like everyone else (no, I will not share my family budget with you, and neither will Exxon) but we are not a secret group by any means. We even post our names and pictures in open mailings and the internet, openly participate in parades, and so on.

There are misunderstandings about us. I'd suggest a tour of our Shriner's Hospital (newest in North America last I heard) and the Scottish Rite's Children's Language Disorder Clinic. There are other quite a few other charities that we sponsor as well, and we support & promote public education for everyone (not just the privileged).

Also, I think every oppressive Government out there (right wing, left wing, and others) has suppressed us - some including prison and execution. Well, if they dislike us that much, maybe there is something good about us... Lots of good people, all over the world, are proud to wear the Mason's apron...

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:03 pm

Hello Brother and congrats! (You too Tycer!)
I hope for the best for both of you and your lodges.

Boone Lodge #314

Triggernosis · Post by **Triggernosis** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:06 pm

Yes, brother. Raised in 1987.
Lenoir Lodge #233
LaGrange, NC

Not active anymore though, due to other obligations (children).

Triggernosis · Post by **Triggernosis** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:12 pm

45-70- wrote:If it is such a good organization, why all the secrecy?

The majority of the "secrecy" is in nostalgic keeping with the secrecy that the master masons who built King Solomon's temple way back when had to undergo in order to keep imposter (deadbeat and uneducated) masons from being hired and performing their sub-standard work on the temple.

There's actually a whole lot of things a Mason can tell you that they don't even know that they are allowed to tell. The really secret things are certain things that would allow a non-Mason entrance into a lodge meeting.

crawdaddyjim · Post by **crawdaddyjim** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:08 pm

If you wish to judge an organization then look at the people that belong to said org. Judge a org. by its works. The Masonic lodges support "Angel Flight" and "The Shriners hospital". They do this without charging the parents of the sick or injured child anything. The Masons of the world work without need for agrandisement (sp) to alleviate many wrongs and to support those that have no one to help them. We don't toot our own horn. We keep our secrets secret.

A little fact. Almost all of the founding fathers of this great nation are to be counted among the Masonic roles.

I hope this answers your question. And starts you on the road to the light. So Mote it be.

Bro. James F. Sanders
South Seminole #372

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:56 pm

I don't know much about Masons but I do know a few I don't care for. Just like people at our Roman Catholic Church. They drive up to the front of the church in their 40K Caddy and park where everyone has to walk around their car. I 100% know some who declare they don't drink and then are seen 30 miles away in a bar in Philly with some other woman. I firmly believe you are who you are and no religion or brotherhood makes you a saint. Jesse Ventura has a good point.

I get a kick out this brotherhood thing, and I'm not singling out the masons. ---all brotherhoods. I'd really like to know how many "brothers" would gladly open up their homes and wallets to a fellow brother they hardly knew ---------for any more than a few days.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:07 pm

I am a Mason. James H. Lockwood Lodge #1343 Free and Accepted Masons.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:19 pm

45-70

Do a Google search for Freemason. There is a ton of info out there. Some of the history is pretty interesting. The Wikipedia one is good. There's a ton of printed material also.

One possibility: The masons of the Middle Ages were the highest paid and trained of the trades. They built the cathedrals. Lot of folks would have loved to have the job, but not so many were truly qualified. When traveling from town to town some words, symbols, and a handshake were used to weed out imposters. Modern Freemasonry still carries on those traditions. May go back even further in time than the Middle Ages.

Most boardrooms and organizations throughout the world keep the doors shut when discussing the details of running the business. Not so much a secret.

There are lodges in just about any town. Go knock on the door. Ask them anything. Nice folks. If you are an upstanding fella and believe in God you are welcome to join. Or not. Heck, they let me in.

Dave James · Post by **Dave James** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:34 pm

Welcome to a fine brother-hood

Doric-44 since 1970

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:38 pm

There is some evidence that masonry may have had its origins with the Knights Templar. *If* this is the case, the secrecy may be, in part, related to the fact that the Templars were hunted down, executed, and their lands taken by King Philip IV of France and Pope Clement V. Some of them escaped to Scotland, where some theorize they eventually formed modern masonry. Others escaped to Switzerland, where some theorize they developed what is now known as the Swiss banking system. Regardless, an organization borne of persecution would certainly have secrets necessary for survival during its dark days. It would make sense to continue those traditions.

Interesting theories, but impossible to prove.

I've known some mighty fine Masons, two of whom I consider truly brothers. I've also known a few that were not men with whom I would care to associate. Every group has its good and bad, because they are made up of imperfect people.

JB · Post by JB » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:44 pm

My grandfather and several other family members are masons, but I've never had the desire to be a member of a "secret" organization. I've know masons that were super individuals, but I've also known masons that were drunks, abused their wives, crooks, etc. There's good and bad just like any other group. There's books and interest articles out there that tell many of the "secrets" if you take the time to look around.

45-70- · Post by **45-70-** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:24 pm

I think JB and I kinda feel the same.

Tycer, I have done lots of research on masons and shriners and want no part of either. If you guys are in good clubs and enjoy yourself, more power to you. I wish you all the best.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:34 pm

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/secrets.html

Satanism, pure and simple.

One need look no further than Christ for salvation and brotherhood.

I once thought of joining, but then did a bit of digging and the deeper I dug, the scarier it got.

Powerful world leaders, spooky people like Allistiar Crowley and even the very motivations of the founding fathers hidden behind some secret veil of demon worship. Truly scary.

JMO.
I have Christ and need nobody else for "secrets" or "power".

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:40 pm

Tycer wrote:Initiation is tomorrow.

Tycer, that's great. You'll probably be nervous but don't sweat a thing no harm will come to you. Every Mason through history has gone through the same thing. Try to relax and remember the ceremony.

After the initiation the WM will set you up with a coach/teacher to teach you the catechism of the 1st degree. Here in WV it is all done mouth to ear. None of it is written down in any form. I've read on the 'net that some jurisdictions have it written.

After tomorrow I'll have to call you Brother

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:49 pm

If anyone was interested in the "secrets", here they are:
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/captmor ... ntents.htm

Be prepared for a lot of reading.

One must put aside their own faith the get on board with these antics, and then they re-introduce the bible.
At first, I thought, "Oh wow, they are also into Christianity." then I started exploring the higher degrees, and the goat symbolism and the worship of Baphomet.

-Yikes!

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:51 pm

SteveR wrote:Mike,

Do you have to be sponsored? What is the process if one would be interested in becoming a Mason?

Thanks,
Steve

Steve, all it takes is to ask a Mason. If you don't know any you can contact a local Lodge. Or the Grand Lodge of your state. If you have trouble contacting them, PM me and I'll see what I can do to help.

Once you ask you'll be given a petition to fill out. Mine was 1 side of 1 page. Simple ?s like where was I born. Had I lived here for 1 year or more. Any felonies? I always go by Mike so that is how I filled out the petition. It got returned for my full name. I also had to pay a $50 fee. When I go for the 2nd It'll be another 50. Same for the 3rd. Each jurisdiction can vary.

Let me know if I can help.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:09 am

Poohgyrr wrote:Mike and Tycer, I'm not the Master, but don't believe he will mind if I extend a Welcome from Tehama Lodge #3, Sacramento, Grand Lodge of Ca. Let me know if you ever travel here and we'll be happy to show you around or just say hello.

It might be interesting to attend other initiations, at your Lodge or others, when the opportunity comes up. Dittos for being Passed and Raised; it's a different view of the ceremony. I usually see something that I had not seen for a while, or had forgotten about.

Thanks Brother, at some point I'll probably take you up on that offer. I spent my 1st 41 years in Fresno so Calif is still a part of my life. If you ever get out towards DC I'll return the offer.

I'm scheduled to go to 2 1st this next week and then a return of the 1st the week after.

Thanks!

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:48 am

Scott64A,

all I can say is that Free Masonry doesn't purport to be a Christian organization. All it requires is that you profess a belief in a higher power.

Most, or a majority, of U.S. masons are Christians. All U.S. Lodges open with the Kings James bible open on the altar of the Lodge. But they are free to have another religious text, like the Talmud, open as well.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:26 am

My father was a Mason. I've thought of joining at times but I've always been too busy. Things have slowed down a bit since my son graduated from high school. I've been told that there has never been a Mason convicted of murder in this country.
I've also hear that there are some lodges that are Muslim.

I used to talk to a fellow worker about the lodge. He told me that some people say they are a secret order. That not exactly true. They are an order that has secrets.

Rusty <><

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:33 am

I am sure there are many mason's that are good honest men that do good work for charities etc.
That said, I knew a guy at my gun club, who was high up in his masonic lodge, I welcomed him into my home, only to find out he had an affair with my wife and then became a stalker.
Now loosing a wife is bad enough but masons were also responsible for us loosing our handguns. The madman that murdered the children and teacher in Dunblane was a mason and in the same lodge as the police chief that allowed him to have firearms, against the wishes of a police sergeant that new him to be a law breaker and of suspect character.
That led directly to the handgun ban in the UK.

Good luck to all you good masons but please don't turn this forum into a masonic meeting place. I still have a bad taste in my mouth.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:15 pm

Gamekeeper, I'm very sorry to hear that you were so poorly treated by anyone, much more so that it was a Mason. We/they are human and as prone to fault as are all humans.

I have no intent to turn this into a Masonic gun forum.

MikeS.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:21 pm

Scott64A wrote:If anyone was interested in the "secrets", here they are:
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/captmor ... ntents.htm

Be prepared for a lot of reading.

One must put aside their own faith the get on board with these antics, and then they re-introduce the bible.
At first, I thought, "Oh wow, they are also into Christianity." then I started exploring the higher degrees, and the goat symbolism and the worship of Baphomet.

-Yikes!

Bullshit.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:29 pm

Thanks Mike, I have drove past the local lodge a few times, but didn't want to stop and in without knowing a little about joining first.

ScottT,

Succinctly put.

Steve

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:33 pm

SteveR wrote:Thanks Mike, I have drove past the local lodge a few times, but didn't want to stop and in without knowing a little about joining first.
Scott,
Succinctly put.
Steve

Steve, my Lodge doesn't keep office hours. Don't know about the Lodge by you. Good Luck my friend.

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:50 pm

ScottT wrote:
Scott64A wrote:If anyone was interested in the "secrets", here they are:
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/captmor ... ntents.htm

Be prepared for a lot of reading.

One must put aside their own faith the get on board with these antics, and then they re-introduce the bible.
At first, I thought, "Oh wow, they are also into Christianity." then I started exploring the higher degrees, and the goat symbolism and the worship of Baphomet.

-Yikes!
Bullshit.

Really? Dang! I joined to take over the world and all I got was this lousy T-shirt!

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:54 pm

Just out of curiousity, are all the Masons here Free & Accepted, or are there Scottish Rite Masons here, too. I think a lot of the "take over the world/devil worship" accusations people level are about things they believe about Scottish Rite Masonry, but that they misattribute to F&A Masons.

I'm not lending any credence to these allegations. Nor am I taking sides with the Masons. I'm just trying to clarify things for all concerned.

crawdaddyjim · Post by **crawdaddyjim** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:15 pm

Those who would condemn with out knowledge are the same who would cast the first stone.

I don't know Scott64A but I would give him benefit of doubt that he so angrily denies others.

I am a GOD fearing man and I will stand and be counted at the time. I personally know that there is NO worship of the devil or a conspiracy to rule the world in the lodge.

My Father was at one time involved at the national level and HE would not be part of anything untoward GOD or his teachings.

A wise man once said, " Keep your mouth shut and let them think you a fool, or speak and remove all doubt".

Lastly, We here are all part of the levergun brotherhood. A loose knit organization to be sure. But the recent outpouring of love toward fellow members shows we can count on each other.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:36 pm

Thanks Scott64a. Good reading, helped a lot.

All went well. Nice guys.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:01 am

Tycer wrote:Thanks Scott64a. Good reading, helped a lot.

All went well. Nice guys.

Good deal, welcome Brother. Now get studying you have a lot to learn. I just found out tonight I have to learn the Obligation too. Didn't know that, it is a lot more to memorize. I still stumble right after worth and well qualified.

ByronG · Post by **ByronG** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:30 am

Church opposition to Masonry rock solid: Vatican official

A high ranking Vatican official has restated Church teaching on Masonic associations, saying that Catholics who enrol in such associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive communion.

Apostolic Penitentiary regent, Bishop Gianfranco Girotti made the statement on Thursday at a conference on the topic of Freemasonry held at the St Bonaventure Pontifical Theological Faculty, Zenit reports.

The bishop presided over the congress held in cooperation with the Socio-Religious Research and Information Group of Italy. Officials of Masonic associations and grand masters also took part in the meeting.

Bishop Girotti reminded his listeners that the Church has always criticised the concepts and philosophy of Freemasonry, considering them incompatible with the Catholic faith.

He mentioned the last official reference document, "Declaration on Masonic Associations," which was signed by the then prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, on 26 November 1983.

The text states that since the principles of Masonic associations "have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church," membership in them, therefore, "remains forbidden."

"The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive holy Communion," adds the declaration signed by Cardinal Ratzinger, who is now Benedict XVI.

Fr Zbigniew Suchecki, an expert in the subject, quoted number 1374 of the Code of Canon Law, which reads: "Whoever is inscribed in an association that plots against the Church must be punished with a just penalty; whoever promotes or directs that association, must be banned."

"Masonry's attempts to express divine truths are based on relativism and do not agree with the principles of the Christian faith," Fr Suchecki said.

Bishop Girotti made reference to the statements of some priests who have declared publicly their membership in Masonry and called for the intervention of "their direct superiors," not excluding the possibility that "measures of a canonical character might come from the Holy See."

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:01 am

ByronG

Understand this is my opinion. No one else's.
The reason why the Catholic church doesn't like Masons is the same as the reason that dictatorships don't like Masons.

The catholic church rose in power the same way that many dictators have. On knowing the secrets of others. While some organizations are not secret organizations in the free world they may have to be in oppressive ones. Where membership can mean hard times for yourself and family and even death. Such goups know and understand the value of keeping your word and keeping your mouths shut. That is contrary to what all oppressive regimes desire and require. They expect loyalty to the appropriate individual (dictator) first and others second.

Just my opinion. That and a keen understanding of both church (catholic) and secular history.

No offense meant to any Catholics here on the board or elsewhere.
Also not meant (necessarily) as a defence of Masonry, but as a point of view as to why such organiztions may be viewed with distrust by some people in power.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:25 am

No offense taken. I am a Catholic and I am a Mason.

That was an unfortunate chapter in Catholocism. Not that big a deal.

Rebel1972 · Post by **Rebel1972** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:56 am

ScottT or any other catholics,not to hijack this thread, but do your priests seem to throw any political agenda into their homilies?The reason I ask this is I am not a catholic but my wife and two kids are .I go to church with them .Latley it seems like we can't get through a mass without a remark about immigration.One priest even made a remark about "NATIVISTS" in relation to loving thy neighbor.The other one made a remark about Mary and Joseph not having trouble getting across the border to Egypt in his Christmas eve mass.It kinda irks me that now I go to church and I don't get anything out of it except to be upset when I come out .I just need some honest opinions .

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:00 am

I have been in many churches where the priest or minister has a political message in their sermon. This is certainly not restricted to Catholics. Some of the biggest Baptist churches around here are highly political.

I currently attend a Methodist church (my wife is not a Catholic) and I see the same thing there.

It probably depends more on the priest or minister's personal bent on this thing than anything.

Rebel1972 · Post by **Rebel1972** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:08 am

I did't mean to imply that it was only catholics .It's just that I go to a catholic church.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:21 am

Rebel1972 wrote:I did't mean to imply that it was only catholics .It's just that I go to a catholic church.

Like ScottT said, you can find that in any church, any denomination. Ministers, like everyone else, are human and prone to human weakness. I'm very careful to try to not let POLICITAL opinions color my preaching. Unfortunately, there are some MORAL issues that have become politicized, so preaching about them can give the impression of politicking from the pulpit.

IMHO, immigration is NOT one of those moral issues and shouldn't be addressed from the pulpit. I'm for strong immigration control, but I'm also for not demonizing or taking advantage of illegals. They are God's children too and should be loved as such. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't build a fence, penalize employers who hire them, or reform our immigration policy to let an appropriate number come here legally.

I'm sorry you are having a bad time with your church, but the benefit of going to church as a family outweighs the annoyance/discomfort you are experiencing in my opinion. If it becomes too big a problem, maybe you could discuss finding a different church with your wife. Just, please, don't give up on church because of one priest with problems!