Feel vs Actual Weight/Size of Lever Guns

[L_Kilkenny]

Obviously I can look up weights on all the various Lever Guns made but IMO that doesn't tell a very accurate story. The Win 92, the Win 94, The Win 73, the Marlin 1894 and the Marlin 336 (and it's cousins) all have weights that are very close to each other. The Win 94 was even suppose to replicate the Win 92 when it was designed. But even though their actual weights are close, to me they all feel much different and weights seem all over the place. To me, the Win 73 seems like a tank (I've only handled one though), the Win 92 seems like a toy (not a bad thing). The Marlin 336 seems substantially heavier than the Win 94 and the Marlin 1894 feels substantially heavier than the Win 92. Even the Win 94 seems noticeably heavier than the 92 IMO. I didn't even try to address the big boys.

Now my question is: Why the heck do guns that all weigh so close feel so different and what characteristics make some of them feel lighter vs. heavier?

Just a random thought I had recently,

LK

[jcw]

In a word, balance. Although I prefer the Marlins over Winchesters, to me the Winchesters carry and handle better. Not that I'd turn down a good deal on a Winchester, mind you. I've own/owned several of both.

[J Miller]

LK,

Besides the variations of the different receives and barrel types one thing that affects all the brands and models is wood density. Older vs new, different types of wood, walnut vs other woods, that kind of thing.

As far as balance goes, to me the best balanced is the Win 94 carbine for rifle cartridges, the Win 92 carbine for the shorter cartridges, and the Marlin 1894 Cowboy for the shorter cartridges.

Others have a balance that I'm not used to so I have a bit of difficulty with them.

Joe

[adirondakjack]

Balance is key. Also we have a built-in system in our head that EXPECTS an object to have a certain weight. When ya pick up a giant 20 lb box of styrofoam, ya think "my god this is light". A 20 lb brick of lead seems VERY heavy....... Sometimes we pick up a 6 lb rifle and it seems dainty. A 6.5 lb rifle might SEEM a tank......

[Chuck 100 yd]

Exactly !! What adirondakjack said.

[AJMD429]

The one that really amazed me is the 'Cowboy' Marlin 1895 .45-70 octagonal. It just looks like it should be heavy. But that octagonal barrel must have less (or at least no more) 'cross-sectional density' in the barrel, than a round one. Anyhow - with that big hole down the middle, it sure lightens up the gun vs. what you'd visually expect...

[Doc Hudson]

adirondakjack hit it pretty close to what I think about the matter.

But not only is it a matter of balance, but how the weight is balanced.

A rifle or shotgun with most of the weight between your hands feels lighter and more lively. That is why a Model 73, probably with a 24" or 26" barrel feels heavier than a Model 1892 of very similar weight.

To give an extreme example: Once upon a time, Doug Mann and I were meandering through the vault at Thad Scott's Fine Guns and we came across a fine old Rodda 8 gauge Double Rifle. Actual weight of the rifle was 18 or 20 pounds. But with the short barrels and heavy receiver concentrating the bulk of the weight between the hands it felt as light and lively as a 7 pound bird gun. Doug and I were both amazed at the handiness of that junior grade cannon. i can't help but believe that had the barrels been six inches longer the balance would have been ruined and the rifle would have felt very front heavy.

Most good lever-guns are the same way. They are well balanced, and the weight is concentrated in the right places.

[tman]

no rifle handles better than an old 1915 src, or the newer bigbores. for me anyway.

[Blaine]

Yup....1895CB feels lighter than my 1895GS, but the CB is actually a tad heavier by weight.

[fatoldfool]

That Taylor's & Company 92 copy with the 20 inch tapered octagon has the best balance I can remember in a rifle....such a shame I am having the problem with it, and having to send it for service. On a positive note, they say they are going to take care of the problem.

[a357lever]

i love model 94 20" and the short barrel 30-30 is small and very potent to 150 yards or 44m 100 yards. they handel like no other but i guess the 92's and the like are the same.

[DBW]

Guns are like women. Similar features, weights and use... but no two are ever alike.

[Lefty Dude]

For a 73, my Uberti 73 Carbine 44-40 with the 19" round barrel has an excellent balance, loaded or unloaded. Second would be my Browning 92/44 20" round barrel.

What can change the feel and balance is the difference with a loaded magazine Vs a unloaded mag tube. I notice this "big-time" in my Winchester 94 with the 26" octagon barrel. The piece holds 8 in the tube.

[win38-55]

I have been hunting deer a long time usually with shotguns. This year I went out with a wide assortment
of deer killing firepower. I mainly hunted with 2 different guns a Scoped Marlin Model 336ss, and a
Savage Model 110 Scoped also. I was amazed at how much more light weight the Marlin felt over the Savage
even though they weight about the same. They Savage was a very heavy feeling gun compared to the
Marlin. I think it is about weight balance that makes some guns feel heavier than others. Both of these
guns were fine to take out as they both serve different purposes.

[jhrosier]

Along the same lines, I have often wondered when I see someone in a gunshop snap a lever gun to their shoulder to evaluate the "balance" of the gun, does their opinion get adjusted when they fill the tube mag with cartridges?

I used to have a 26" Winchester Model 1886 with a full mag. When filled with 45-70s it got a bit unhandy.
When I replaced it a few years ago, I chose the 1886 EL. The half mag keeps the weight between your hands and the actual weight of the rifle goes largely unnoticed.
I suppose that this is also the reason that the 1895 Winchester feels so handy.

Jack

[86er]

I'm kind of a balance and handling nut. I tweak all my rifles so that when I shoulder them I am looking through the sights. This means the sights have to come up on a level plain. Both hands move togther with no sea-sawing. This balancing makes the rifle feel lighter when carrying it at the center point and it comes up an swings instinctively. I don't worry too much about the actual weight in pounds and ounces.

[Malamute]

My Dad has long been a balance fanatic with his shotguns. He will drill holes in the buttstock to lighten, or fill the holes with lead, and he'll lay lead tape in the fore ends or along the barrels under the fore ends to get the balance point exactly where he wants it. His results can't be argued with. The balance is more important than the actual weight as far as shooting the gun well, but lighter weight is nice to carry. A good balance of weight and balance is very nice to find.

I've found that stocking makes a big difference in the feel of a gun's handling. I thinned the wrist of an M-1 Garand years ago, and the fore stock some, and it felt much lighter and faster handling.

In just carrying, the 94 Winchesters, being thinner as well as lighter, felt handier to carry than comparable Marlins. Some bolt guns can feel better carrying and handling with thinner stocks around the magazine area, and stocks that fit you well for shooting. I often carry a bolt gun upside down with my hand around the stock/action, fingers going between the scope and action. They carry fairly well in the hand that way for me, if the stock is thin enough to get my fingers around it without a death grip and there's room between the action and scope. Removing the squarish edges along the bottom of the stock beside the floor plate helps. As mentioned in 86'ers post about his Uncle, I feel no hesitation to modify a gun to make it more practical to use. File, rasp, sandpaper, drill, saw, whatever it takes. I've also found, from my Dads experience with shotguns, that taking the toe of the stock in a little when putting a pad on helps keep the muzzle down when shooting, making followup shots quicker. Most rifles, in particular older Winchesters, have a long toe. When having a pad installed, I tell my gunsmith to take the toe to about 1/8" in from square with the top of the stock.