OT: sorta - .22s for center fires

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:42 am

With the cost of reloading components and center fire ammo going through the stratosphere the thought of converting to shooting .22s is actually attractive to me.
Now those who know me know I don't like .22s too much. I honestly don't enjoy shooting them as much as my center fires. But .............

So for my center fire lever guns I have a 9422 to match.
For my center fire single actions I have a Ruger single six to match.
Plus a couple more.

But what about a .22 semi auto? The only one I have any experience
with is the Marlin (Glenfield) Mdl 60.

What would you guys suggest? It's got to accurate enough to appreciate and absolutely MUST have iron sights. No irons = no sale. I've had my fill of that stuff.

Joe

.45 · Post by **.45** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:50 am

Rifle=Ruger 10/22
Pistol=Ruger Mk I,II,or III

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:56 am

I don't have a semi-auto rimfire rifle although a couple have passed through my hands. A rimfire pistol is useful. The Rugers are usually better than the shooter.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:59 am

Joe -

Something to consider before you go trotting off to buy a semi-auto .22 LR rifle -- TRIGGER DISIPLINE!!!

You are more likely to shoot more ammo with a semi-auto than you are a bolt gun or lever gun. You will be more likely to take a few quick shots with a semi-auto than you would with a bolt gun or lever gun given the same circumstances.

That said, I have a couple of Ruger 10/22s. One is set up with a scope and the other is set up with a Williams WGRS receiver sight. They come stock with iron sights. The Marlin 60 is a great rifle and last time I saw one, they come stock with iron sights.

No matter what gun you decide on you'd best stock up on .22 LR ammo as the price for it is rapidly aproaching outer space.

There's just no way around it. Because of the cost of loaded ammo and reloading components, the cost of participating in the shooting sports is slowly but surely pricing many out of the sport.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:35 am

.45 wrote:Rifle=Ruger 10/22
Pistol=Ruger Mk I,II,or III

Yep. I consider the stock 10/22 a 'carbine' though. In 'rifle' format it can be fitted with a heavy longer barrel VERY cheaply with no gunsmithing, and a bigger stock, for a real tack-driver.

Here's the 'carbine' 10/22 we have set up for a grab-and-get-the-coyotes-in-the-goat-pen gun. Bushnell Holosight, Cheapo 'pistol' laser sight in front of that, 3 watt LED flashlight in 30mm rings under the forend, cheap 'flash-hider' just to protect the muzzle, 25-round 'Hotlips' magazine, and a Tapco stock. Before the wood-stock-and-buckhorn-sight traditionalists howl too much, I'll admit, I really, really, totally regret and am ashamed

that it doesn't have a wood stock and 'traditional' look, and has all that 'modern' sticking-out stuff and lasers and lights that I know is just for macho 'tactical' show . . . . but I think the local coyotes regret it even more...

That little 10/22 may look funny, but will consistently hit a 2" steel flip-up at 75 yards. Didn't cost much, either, even with the light and stock and all - the Holosight cost more than the gun, stock, laser, and flashlight combined, and I cannibalized it from a compound bow I no longer use...

Of course they are available with open sights, wood stocks, and flush 10-round magazines, if you don't want coyotes looking at you with disdain.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:18 pm

I got the pistol end of it covered.

As for trigger discipline I've never been infected by the spray and pray syndrome. Of course I do have my ornery streaks but generally I take my time and do my best to hit what I aim at.

As far as the price end of things I am painfully aware of that.

My first .22 rifle was a old Savage something. Had a detachable magazine that held 7 or 8 rounds I think. It was a good rifle, but would jam if I fed it the CCI Mini Mags. These were the original Mini Mags with the triple diamond head stamp. Them were some hot little .22s.

Then I had one of the Remington 581s (?) and it also had a detachable magazine. Nice rifle but it didn't do anything for me.

The one thing I noticed about both the old Savage and the brand new Remington was the magazine was a pain in the @$$ to load. I think that's the main reason I got rid of both of them.

The tubular magazines used on the Marlin Mdl 60 and the lever actions works 10 times better than those box mags did.

Joe

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:27 pm

I have a Marlin M60, M 75, and a Ruger 10/22. Out of the 3 my favorite is the 60 as far as shooting mainly because it holds 17 rounds. It is an older model and has a long thick barrel. I mounted a Simmons 3-9x40 on it and it shoots as good as I can out to 75 yrds, it might shoot a little further but that is about as far as I have pushed it. The Ruger is alot more reliable and has never had a FTF or FtE even when shooting the subsonics. As far as reliability it would win hands down. I will say I dont care for the magazines under the stock. I would prefer the long tube magazine if I am going to be carrying the gun in the field.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:44 pm

For a rifle I have a Marlin 97/39A hybrid of sorts with a Weaver B4 on top . Also a Marlin 1897CB and 1897T . Have a nice old Winchester 1890 (pump) for 22 shorts that my grandfather purchased new . And a nice old 50's vintage Winchester 61 in 22 LR .

For a revolver I have a Colt Scout "Buntline Special" that my grandfather purchased new in 1962 and a Ruger Single Six that my dad also got in the early 60's .

I'd kinda like to get my hands on a LNIB Remington 541S . But now that will cost about $800-1000

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:07 pm

J Miller wrote:The tubular magazines used on the Marlin Mdl 60 and the lever actions works 10 times better than those box mags did. Joe

But not nearly as well or convenient as the Ruger rotary magazines.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:22 pm

I have an older, 1969, Browning .22 Auto.....All I can say is WOW. With the stock iron sights it was one ragged hole accurate off sand bags at about 20 yards or so. It's never jammed.

dr walker · Post by **dr walker** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:26 pm

if I was buying a new gun and not wanting to experiment with after market barrels and other extras I would get a Marlin 60. The little Browning Auto is nice too.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:34 pm

If you are buying new either the Marlins or the 10/22 is the way to go. I'm not a real fan of semi-autos anymore so I like my bolt guns. You burn less ammo and it is good practice for your larger centerfire rifles. I have found for great shooting 22 rifle for minimal money, I would recomend looking for one of the older Mossberg 22 rifles. Since well before WWII Mossberg produced some of the best 22 rifle on the planet. Even the US Military used one of there models to train troops during WWII, the 44US. I have a Model 46B(b) made in 1947 that I have $50 into not counting the scope nd with the scope $75. The rifle has a "Bull Barrel" well it is 3/4" in diameter, adjustable trigger and came with a iron sights and a peeps sight that swivels out of the way. This rifle shoots as well as my $1000 Custom Target 10/22 and is the perfect technique practice rifle.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:40 pm

Winchester 1903 22 lr,l,s is one of my most accurate 22s.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:16 pm

I would be hard pressed to pick between the tube fed Marlin Model 60 and the detachable mag fed Ruger 10-22. The Marlin is slimmer, trimmer and lighter that the 10-22, but is probably a little more complex design. If you want/need a detachable mag then get a 10-22. Either way you can't go wrong.

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:27 pm

I don't own a semi either, I bought my son a Marlin Model 60 stainless 8 or 10 years ago and he shoots it well. I owned the 10/22 before and found it accurate and reliable. Me, I've been looking for one of the old Remington Nylon 66 rifles in Mohawk Brown for several years. Found one in the St Louis Cabelas a couple of years ago. Looked like new, but carried a $300 price tag

, I put it back and then thought about it 30min later, It was GONE.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:32 pm

nemhed,
I had a Glenfield Mdl 60 back in the late 70s. It was a shooting little rifle. It had the early action with the pot metal feed block and ejector. When that wore out I replaced it with the updated one and never had a bit more trouble with it.

I've never owned a 10-22. Shot a couple that belonged to others though. I'm not really a fan of detachable mags.

ceb,
I had exactly the same thing happen to me at a local gun show several years ago. Say a Nylon 66, realy good price too, when to get the wife to show her but when we got back some guy was buying it. Grrrrrrrrrr!!

Oh well, you snooze, you loose.

Joe

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:49 pm

For a semi auto 22 there are so many choices.

I've had the Model 60, Win 190, Remington 597 and 10/22s

Right now I still have the Win 190 and the two 10/22s. All three feed flawlessly with Remington Goldens, mini mags, and stingers.

The 10/22s are more for the kids when they get bigger, but they are still a blast to shoot. I even purchased a few of those steel lip 25rd mags and several of the factory 10 rounders.

All three have scopes and will easily shoot into 1" at 50yds

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:51 pm

I am at the other end of the spectrum. I am almost exclusively rimfire and am ready to stop using my centerfires for anything, but the occasional silhouette match.

Here are my thoughts and opinions...
The Ruger 10/22 is the only semiauto that you have to buy aftermarket parts for, to get it to shoot well. The Model 60 is a good old reliable design and the older models were all steel.

The rifle you may want to look at, if you need quality iron sights, is the Remington 552 BDL. It has great centerfire style sights. The other is the older Remington 550-1. Both of these will shoot 22 short, long, or long rifle. The Ruger, Marlin, T/C, and others cannot do this.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:53 pm

rangerider7 wrote:Winchester 1903 22 lr,l,s is one of my most accurate 22s.

The Model 1903 was only chambered in the now obsolete 22 Winchester Auto. This later became the Model 63, but it was 22LR only. Are you thinking about a different model?

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:56 pm

jdad, you are right it is a model 63 Winchester 22 lr.

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:00 pm

Ruger 10/22.

I have the one I gave my father for Christmas back in '65. Reliable, light, easy to scope, and capable of accepting high-capacity aftermarket magazines (if you are into that sort of thing).

That said, my father didn't like it. He accepted it, but never shot it much. I have no feeling for it other than the fact that it was his. He didn't like autoloaders of any stripe, and I think a .22 rf rifle should require some participation by the shooter, as well as have the capability to shoot shorts, longs, and long rifles. To that end, I just bought a base model Henry, and I am delighted with it! (My first gun was a Model 62A Winchester that I got for Christmas in 1950. It was stolen some 30+ years ago.

Still, in this day and age, if one wants a .22 rf autoloder, I'd have to say again: Ruger 10/22!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:05 pm

Nylon 66....

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:57 pm

It's hard to go wrong with the Marlin/Glenfield Model 60 or the 10/22, it just depends on personal preference.

The only real downside to the 10/22 is they can turn into a serious money pit before you know it. Not that they NEED it, just because there are so many cool toys and trinkets for it.

I'd be REAL careful with the Rem Viper (522?) or 597. The Viper was such a poor design Remington redesigned it into the 597 and Viper parts were practically unobtainium when I looked into it a few years ago. (There was a reason that Viper I found was such a screaming deal...

).

The 597 wasn't much better but I knew that when I bought mine. There are 3-4 generations of mags and only the last gen is 100% reliable (but I can't tell you anymore how to tell which gen is which). There are two screws that hold the recoil springs that have to come out for disassembly as I recall. If you don't get them torqued exactly right, it'll give you fits. Dumped mine after two sessions because I just didn't need another problem child.

I haven't owned a Mossberg semi but I've had a couple of their bolt actions and enjoyed them quite a bit.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:33 am

Old Ironsights wrote:Nylon 66....

I loved my Nylon 66 but that was back in the 1960s.

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:02 am

It all depends on how much money you want to spend. Last 10-22 I had was sold a long while ago. I've had a couple. I always had trouble with the mags. Take them apart and clean then they work for a while, repeat often was my experience. Haven't done it in almost 20 years but I'll still bet I could do it in the dark and yes, I've had to do it in the dark more than once. Maybe they are better now. Lord knows there's every kind of accessory in the world available to turn it into about anything you want. Don't hate them just think they're a bit overrated.

Oh by the way, the reason the 10-22s got sold is: I picked up a Marlin 70 clip fed carbine for $35 in a swap(that's how much the 32 derringer I traded even up for it cost). Still have it. Never had to take a magazine apart, yet. Mags aren't very expensive and I've never had trouble with them. It gets grubby, I clean it. It's more accurate than any 10-22 I ever owned(mind you this is before all the accessories came around). I keep an extra plastic buffer around just because I had one broke in a different one, bought it cheap too because of that, ordered 2 buffers at the time, still have the one. I wish I'd never let the other one go. The clip fed version is a LOT easier to clean than the tube fed version(also owned one, brother still has it, it's like yours, about wore out) but it doesn't need it as often. If I was looking for a 22 autoloader, that's what I'd look for.

Getting a "good" old nylon Remington 66 cheap is a fantasy anymore. You'll pay lots for a good one, more than they're worth as a shooter IMO, but you could luck into a deal. Don't buy one of those copies that were made in Brazil(?) even if it's NIB, trust me on that. Don't know enough about the Vipers to comment. The 552s from Remington are good shooters but it's hard to find one at a good price that isn't pretty beat. The pumps are nice too but have the same problem as the 522, spendy. Both are still in production, so if you have the cash, I'd just buy new. Never seen a bolt action Remington that wouldn't shoot real well. I have one of the old Nylon 12 bolts that is really, really accurate.

There are a lot of good 22s out there. There are a lot of good shooting mossbergs, the bolts and even the older autos were always pretty good. The plinkster looks good( a pretty obvious copy of the marlin) but I haven't any experience with it(and what's with that muzzle brake on the new ones in the new catalog? and no iron sights, That's just weird). The Browning bottom shuckers are great(bring $), the copy that was imported(norinco ?) a few years back was pretty good too, plus they take down(nephew has one and loves it). The old auto savages/springfields are hit and miss, some are great but others can be fussy as all get out. The bolts are another story, find one of the nicer versions and you won't be disappointed. Wow, this is getting long, but there really are a lot of good 22s out there.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:15 am

Cleaning 10/22 mags is easy and you don't need to disassemble them. I just spray them full of WD-40 then shake them around a bit after letting them sit for 15 minutes or so. Do it second time and let the mag drain overnight, upside down and they are good of another 500 to a 1000 rounds.

ByronG · Post by **ByronG** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:48 am

A little surprised nobody has asked the question: What are you planning to use it for?

Here's something that comes complete with tube mag, real nice receiver sight and IMHO is pretty exciting.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =123978761

But,...... it is a bolt gun

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:49 am

ByronG wrote:A little surprised nobody has asked the question: What are you planning to use it for?
Same thing I do with all my others, shoot what ever I think needs shot.

Here's something that comes complete with tube mag, real nice receiver sight and IMHO is pretty exciting.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =123978761
Nice I guess but it's got the same problem the Marlin lever guns has, too much wood.

But,...... it is a bolt gun

Joe

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:00 am

Joe, if you're thinking new/modern, i'd consider two different areas - one if you want a very lightweight .22 auto, another if you'd rather have one heavier & more hand-filling.

Light/accurate = Browning/Miroku .22 Auto (ATD) takedown.

Larger/accurate = Ruger 10/22, with a bit of trigger work, to improve the accuracy side. It's also easily peep-able.

If you want to do vintage, you could do a lot worse than a Winchester Model 63 (or it's Taurus clone if budget is a consideration).

.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:22 pm

J Miller wrote:
ByronG wrote:A little surprised nobody has asked the question: What are you planning to use it for?
Same thing I do with all my others, shoot what ever I think needs shot.

Here's something that comes complete with tube mag, real nice receiver sight and IMHO is pretty exciting.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =123978761
Nice I guess but it's got the same problem the Marlin lever guns has, too much wood.

But,...... it is a bolt gun

Joe

But the shoot like a million bucks.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:24 pm

Pete44ru wrote:Joe, if you're thinking new/modern, i'd consider two different areas - one if you want a very lightweight .22 auto, another if you'd rather have one heavier & more hand-filling.

Light/accurate = Browning/Miroku .22 Auto (ATD) takedown.

Larger/accurate = Ruger 10/22, with a bit of trigger work, to improve the accuracy side. It's also easily peep-able.

If you want to do vintage, you could do a lot worse than a Winchester Model 63 (or it's Taurus clone if budget is a consideration).

.

Norinco also makes a copy of the Browning 22 Auto ATD and mine functions fine for a lot less money.

The Ruger 10/22 trigger is easier to replace than work on.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:11 pm

I'd rather my sister was in politics than shoot a Norinco thing.........

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:30 pm

BlaineG wrote:I'd rather my sister was in politics than shoot a Norinco thing.........

So how is Patty Murrray?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:43 pm

Here we are having fun and you want to get mean about it

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:14 pm

BlaineG wrote: Here we are having fun and you want to get mean about it

You only deserve the best, so I gave you the best meanest I had.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:29 pm

I have heard good things about the Chinese Norinco made guns. And I've heard bad things. Same as any other brand. However China is a communist country. When ever we buy their products we strengthen them and weaken us. There are many things I can't seem to avoid buying, but firearms are not one of them. I flat out refuse to purchase a commie Chinese made gun. Period, end of discussion.

I've been thinking of looking for an older pre safety widget Rossi pump. I had one of those some years back and was fun to shoot. Accurate and reliable. Don't remember why I got rid of it. Some stupid reason I'm sure.

Joe

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:10 pm

J Miller wrote:I have heard good things about the Chinese Norinco made guns. And I've heard bad things. Same as any other brand. However China is a communist country. When ever we buy their products we strengthen them and weaken us. There are many things I can't seem to avoid buying, but firearms are not one of them. I flat out refuse to purchase a commie Chinese made gun. Period, end of discussion.

I've been thinking of looking for an older pre safety widget Rossi pump. I had one of those some years back and was fun to shoot. Accurate and reliable. Don't remember why I got rid of it. Some stupid reason I'm sure.

Joe

I bought mine used, so someone else paid the commies. Once it is here then there is no point in not buying a gun. I also have never ordered a new Chinese gun, I have had several over the years and am now down to 3, a Mak-90, the Browning 22ATD copy and a 1877 Coachgun. They all function just fine.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:18 pm

I agree with Joe, No China krapp for me!!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:04 pm

Bear has to scrimp to pay off his huge 1-900 bills

The one that sounds like Patty Murry is especially expensive

Boreman · Post by **Boreman** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:42 pm

I like my 10/22 Delux and my MK 2 and/or Single Six for companion 22 shooting. They accurate and just a lot of fun to shoot. I don't think you could go wrong with this combo !!!!!!!!!

dr walker · Post by **dr walker** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:32 pm

Joe,
Just a heads up Marlin has a Spring Promotion rebate on certain rimfire rifles. $20 cash back on a model 795.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/PDFs/MAR_sprg09Coupon.pdf

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:52 pm

Another vote for the 10/22. It is not the most popular semi-auto .22 LR of all time for nothing!