I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
- kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
- Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.
I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
And, that's not the first time I've been told I need an education.
I'm looking to purchase a 22. Lever of course. Now the education part. I really like the looks of two, the Winchester Legacy and the Marlin 1897 Century Limited. I guess the education I'm looking for is on the Marlins. They're 39's, 39a's, 1897's, Golden 39's, etc.. Will someone dumb it down for me as to the Marlins.
That being said, how's the microgroove compare to standard rifling and is there an option in the newer Marlins? Thanks everyone.
I'm looking to purchase a 22. Lever of course. Now the education part. I really like the looks of two, the Winchester Legacy and the Marlin 1897 Century Limited. I guess the education I'm looking for is on the Marlins. They're 39's, 39a's, 1897's, Golden 39's, etc.. Will someone dumb it down for me as to the Marlins.
That being said, how's the microgroove compare to standard rifling and is there an option in the newer Marlins? Thanks everyone.
Old Law Dawg
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Here's a pretty good read on them.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/marlin_golden_39A.htm
I've got a 1957 mountie 39a and a 1980s version 336 with microgroove rifling. I can tell you now, they are more accurate than most non competition class firearms.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/marlin_golden_39A.htm
I've got a 1957 mountie 39a and a 1980s version 336 with microgroove rifling. I can tell you now, they are more accurate than most non competition class firearms.
...and I don't think he even knows it...Walks around with a half-assed grin...If he feels fear, he don't show it. Just rides into hell and back again.
- kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
- Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Thanks, Meanc. There's still the golden. What say you, what say you all.
Old Law Dawg
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
I've got a '54 Mountie and I love it. The balance is terrific, and it points nicely when shouldered. Mine is badly worn. Most of the bluing is gone, the lever is a little bent, and the receiver is pitted. I don't care! It is a GREAT rifle.
I would also investigate the Browning BL22. They are very nicely made and the 20" version feels something like my Mountie. Not exactly the same, the mechanism is different, but I would have been happy with one had I chosen it rather than my Marlin.
--
Brian
I would also investigate the Browning BL22. They are very nicely made and the 20" version feels something like my Mountie. Not exactly the same, the mechanism is different, but I would have been happy with one had I chosen it rather than my Marlin.
--
Brian
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Older production Golden 39s from the 50's to the 90s should be good to go.
I've read of problems with current quality control as of late with Marlin (as well as many other mfgs) so I myself wouldn't try one, especially with so many older quality pieces available.
I'm sure if they work correctly they should be just as accurate as all the other 39/39a/1897s
I've read of problems with current quality control as of late with Marlin (as well as many other mfgs) so I myself wouldn't try one, especially with so many older quality pieces available.
I'm sure if they work correctly they should be just as accurate as all the other 39/39a/1897s
...and I don't think he even knows it...Walks around with a half-assed grin...If he feels fear, he don't show it. Just rides into hell and back again.
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
All the rimfire levergun variants (including the 1897CL) that Marlin has been making since 1939 are based on the 39A receiver. The only difference is cosmetic; barrel shape, lower tang, sights, rollstamp, etc.
I agree with MeanC that pre 1988 (crossbolt safety introduced) rifles seem to be better built than current production. Any 39A that starts with a "letter", in the serial number, would be a good choice. "B" (1940) through "K" (1953) were pre-microgrooved and do have a collector following.
If you want new and can't afford a 39A, then the best "value" is the Henry H001T Octagon. It's a whole lot of well built rifle, for the money.
I agree with MeanC that pre 1988 (crossbolt safety introduced) rifles seem to be better built than current production. Any 39A that starts with a "letter", in the serial number, would be a good choice. "B" (1940) through "K" (1953) were pre-microgrooved and do have a collector following.
If you want new and can't afford a 39A, then the best "value" is the Henry H001T Octagon. It's a whole lot of well built rifle, for the money.
I know a whole lot about very little and nothing about a whole lot.
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
I wish you were closer, I'd let you try the 39A and the 39 Mounty
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Kwcook,
Regarding Marlins:
Model 39 means the "original" 39, has 24" octagon barrel etc. super nice configuration. Make sure if the bolt is up to HS shells though.
Then after WW2 Marlin came out with their 39A, 24" round barrel. Still had the tang D&T for tang sight. Up until 1953 they were Ballard rifled.
In 1954 Marlin came out with the microgroove rifling and no more D&T on the tang but still were D&T on side of receiver for receiver sight.
The experts that I really listen to say that there is not much difference in performance of a Ballard rifled 39A or a microgroove one. I have both now and would agree, the BOTH shoot extremely well.
In 1980 Marlin started marking the barrels with the "lawyer" proof warning labels
In 1984 Marlin came out with the 39AS standing for safety with the cross bolt safety and rebounding hammer.
So I'd go for any 39A prior to 1980 personally. I love the 24" barrels, I believe the Winchester Legacy has a 22" maybe 22 1/2". They are nice rifles for sure but there is just something SO AWESOME about a 39A.
Now I'll say this, JUST before Remington bought Marlin, I bought a Golden 39AS for my boy. It came with BEAUTIFUL wood and shoots like a dream. It's a keeper for sure! I still prefer the NO safety and NO rebounding hammer though!
The cream of the crop 39A at least for me is a Ballard rifled one from late 1940's to 1953. Just something special about guns from back then.
Just got my first Marlin 1897 and LOVE IT TREMENDOUSLY!!! You'd like the skinny forearm and the nicely tapered octagon barrel. But you are probably looking at $1,000 plus for a nice one and you can only shoot standard velocity shells. But I would rank my Marlin .22's like this:
1) Marlin 1897 made in 1902
2) Marlin 39A made in 1952, Ballard rifled
3) Marlin 39A made in 1954 Microgroove
4) Marlin 1897 Texan, the 20" octagon barrel one from around 2002 and 2003
5) Marlin 39AS brand new, recent manufacture. Still a very fine rifle, all forged steel and walnut!!
Hope this helps you out in some fashion. Keep an eye out for those 1950's guns, the are FINE!!
Geoff
Regarding Marlins:
Model 39 means the "original" 39, has 24" octagon barrel etc. super nice configuration. Make sure if the bolt is up to HS shells though.
Then after WW2 Marlin came out with their 39A, 24" round barrel. Still had the tang D&T for tang sight. Up until 1953 they were Ballard rifled.
In 1954 Marlin came out with the microgroove rifling and no more D&T on the tang but still were D&T on side of receiver for receiver sight.
The experts that I really listen to say that there is not much difference in performance of a Ballard rifled 39A or a microgroove one. I have both now and would agree, the BOTH shoot extremely well.
In 1980 Marlin started marking the barrels with the "lawyer" proof warning labels
In 1984 Marlin came out with the 39AS standing for safety with the cross bolt safety and rebounding hammer.
So I'd go for any 39A prior to 1980 personally. I love the 24" barrels, I believe the Winchester Legacy has a 22" maybe 22 1/2". They are nice rifles for sure but there is just something SO AWESOME about a 39A.
Now I'll say this, JUST before Remington bought Marlin, I bought a Golden 39AS for my boy. It came with BEAUTIFUL wood and shoots like a dream. It's a keeper for sure! I still prefer the NO safety and NO rebounding hammer though!
The cream of the crop 39A at least for me is a Ballard rifled one from late 1940's to 1953. Just something special about guns from back then.
Just got my first Marlin 1897 and LOVE IT TREMENDOUSLY!!! You'd like the skinny forearm and the nicely tapered octagon barrel. But you are probably looking at $1,000 plus for a nice one and you can only shoot standard velocity shells. But I would rank my Marlin .22's like this:
1) Marlin 1897 made in 1902
2) Marlin 39A made in 1952, Ballard rifled
3) Marlin 39A made in 1954 Microgroove
4) Marlin 1897 Texan, the 20" octagon barrel one from around 2002 and 2003
5) Marlin 39AS brand new, recent manufacture. Still a very fine rifle, all forged steel and walnut!!
Hope this helps you out in some fashion. Keep an eye out for those 1950's guns, the are FINE!!
Geoff
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Geoff,
I kind of thought you'd end up keeping the 1952, for yourself. It definitely was not shot much.
I kind of thought you'd end up keeping the 1952, for yourself. It definitely was not shot much.
I know a whole lot about very little and nothing about a whole lot.
-
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 2277
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:22 pm
- Location: Crenshaw County, Alabama
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
I can not knowledgeably address the comparison of the Marlin Golden Model 39-A with the Winchester M-9422. My only experiences with Winchester 22's has been with bolt action single-shots and repeaters.
I will be glad to talk about the Golden 39-A though.
As for accuracy, it is phenomenal. Some years ago, I went shooting with a co-worker who owned a pre-WWII Walther Target Rifle, a Model 5-A IIRC. We were just plinking at targets of opportunity at the dump so no on paper comparisons were made. But we both were shooting at a styrofoam coffee cup at a range of about 125 yards. Jimmy was amazed that my rifle with a cheapo Tasco fixed 4x scope was hitting as often as his Walther with a 6x scope. So don't turn your nose up at micro-groove rifling. Using ammo the rifle likes it will shoot with the best of them.
The man I bought the rifle from had been in the gun business for about 40 years when I bought my rifle. I asked him if it was prone to breakage and what types. He told me that in nearly 40 years in the business, he had had precisely 1 (ONE) Marlin Model 39 brought in for repairs. That one had belonged to a young fellow who as an absolute fanatic fan of "The Rifleman," and had done his best to equal Lucas McCain's shooting. He said the young fellow and his buddy had bought several thousand rounds of .22 LR ammo in the course of a month. He figured that the rifle had often been dry-fired in the course of rapid firing and had eventually broken the firing pin. That is the only repair he ever made on a Model 39.
Another advantage for the Marlin Model 39 is that it is easily disassembled for cleaning from the breech end of the barrel.
I've owned my Marlin Golden 39-A since 1977, and as far as I'm concerned, it can be buried with me. It is the last rifle with which I'd part.
I will be glad to talk about the Golden 39-A though.
As for accuracy, it is phenomenal. Some years ago, I went shooting with a co-worker who owned a pre-WWII Walther Target Rifle, a Model 5-A IIRC. We were just plinking at targets of opportunity at the dump so no on paper comparisons were made. But we both were shooting at a styrofoam coffee cup at a range of about 125 yards. Jimmy was amazed that my rifle with a cheapo Tasco fixed 4x scope was hitting as often as his Walther with a 6x scope. So don't turn your nose up at micro-groove rifling. Using ammo the rifle likes it will shoot with the best of them.
The man I bought the rifle from had been in the gun business for about 40 years when I bought my rifle. I asked him if it was prone to breakage and what types. He told me that in nearly 40 years in the business, he had had precisely 1 (ONE) Marlin Model 39 brought in for repairs. That one had belonged to a young fellow who as an absolute fanatic fan of "The Rifleman," and had done his best to equal Lucas McCain's shooting. He said the young fellow and his buddy had bought several thousand rounds of .22 LR ammo in the course of a month. He figured that the rifle had often been dry-fired in the course of rapid firing and had eventually broken the firing pin. That is the only repair he ever made on a Model 39.
Another advantage for the Marlin Model 39 is that it is easily disassembled for cleaning from the breech end of the barrel.
I've owned my Marlin Golden 39-A since 1977, and as far as I'm concerned, it can be buried with me. It is the last rifle with which I'd part.
Doc Hudson, OOF, IOFA, CSA, F&AM, SCV, NRA LIFE MEMBER, IDJRS #002, IDCT, King of Typoists
Amici familia ab lectio est
UNITE!
Amici familia ab lectio est
UNITE!
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6490
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
The term "Golden 39a" was first introduced in 1957, and dropped in 1964. In 1972 the gold trigger came back, but the barrels were not marked "Golden 39a" any longer. Same gun, just different catalog designation and rollstamp. In 1982 the gold trigger was dropped and in 1985 it came back. Sems we just can't get rid of the gold trigger for long!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/marli ... hester.htm
This article compare the two. He seems to think highly of both.
IMOHO I would give the edge to the marli over the BLR22 or the 9422 but would gleefully jump on any bargin for any one of those three. I woulde not tell my friends first and I would brag about the deal later.
This article compare the two. He seems to think highly of both.
IMOHO I would give the edge to the marli over the BLR22 or the 9422 but would gleefully jump on any bargin for any one of those three. I woulde not tell my friends first and I would brag about the deal later.
The man who invented the plow was not bored. He was hungry.
- gamekeeper
- Spambot Zapper
- Posts: 17458
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
- Location: Over the pond unfortunately.
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
I have had three 9422s and a Marlin Mountie, you can't go wrong which ever you choose, it's down to looks and feel really, both are fine firearms.
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
- kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
- Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Thanks for the replies guys. It seems it's going to come down to which one feels best and looks best to me. I appreciate the info.
Old Law Dawg
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18723
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Kimwcook,
Can you keep a secret? pppsssssstttt......don't tell nobody as everyone here thinks I'm a Winchester man but when it comes to a .22 levergun, I'll take a Marlin 39 everytime. Easy to clean, break down, feels better when offhand shooting, really easy to change parts on, mount a scope...........
I shoot a newer (1980's) 39 and love it, except that extracting system needs a reengineer job. -------------------Sixgun
Can you keep a secret? pppsssssstttt......don't tell nobody as everyone here thinks I'm a Winchester man but when it comes to a .22 levergun, I'll take a Marlin 39 everytime. Easy to clean, break down, feels better when offhand shooting, really easy to change parts on, mount a scope...........
I shoot a newer (1980's) 39 and love it, except that extracting system needs a reengineer job. -------------------Sixgun
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
[I guess the education I'm looking for is on the Marlins. They're 39's, 39a's, 1897's, Golden 39's, etc. Will someone dumb it down for me as to the Marlins.]
OK.
The lineage started in the 1800's with the 1891, then the improved model 1897, and then the model 39 about 1922 IIRC - all classically styled, usually octagon barreled, etc, and expensive when one can be found.
Around WWII, essentially the same design (improved further) became the 39a - which itself went through several changes over the years to rifling types, safety added, checkering, and model names like "Golden".
The earlier versions of these are arguably the most accurate, and have better workmanship than the later/letest versions.
The same 39a was also made in a few different configs, such as a modern 1897, and a Mountie - both of which have shorter barrels than a 39a and straight grip stocks ILO the 39a's pistol grip stock.
In my target shooting experience with my own rifles, the Marlin is the most accurate, with the standard Henry and the Winchester 9422 less accurate than the Marlin, but about equal.
I found the Browning BL22 even less so, but that is most probably due to my over-controling it's very light weight.
In my hunting experience with them, I found the Henry and the 9422 to handle better than the 39a - but that's because they both have shorter barrels,
So, yes, you need to handle a sampling of each if you can.
I've sold my Model 39a's and BL22's, keeping a 9422 XTR Magnum and a Henry H001 Standard .22LR.
Some folks like chocolate, and others like pistachio.
.
OK.
The lineage started in the 1800's with the 1891, then the improved model 1897, and then the model 39 about 1922 IIRC - all classically styled, usually octagon barreled, etc, and expensive when one can be found.
Around WWII, essentially the same design (improved further) became the 39a - which itself went through several changes over the years to rifling types, safety added, checkering, and model names like "Golden".
The earlier versions of these are arguably the most accurate, and have better workmanship than the later/letest versions.
The same 39a was also made in a few different configs, such as a modern 1897, and a Mountie - both of which have shorter barrels than a 39a and straight grip stocks ILO the 39a's pistol grip stock.
In my target shooting experience with my own rifles, the Marlin is the most accurate, with the standard Henry and the Winchester 9422 less accurate than the Marlin, but about equal.
I found the Browning BL22 even less so, but that is most probably due to my over-controling it's very light weight.
In my hunting experience with them, I found the Henry and the 9422 to handle better than the 39a - but that's because they both have shorter barrels,
So, yes, you need to handle a sampling of each if you can.
I've sold my Model 39a's and BL22's, keeping a 9422 XTR Magnum and a Henry H001 Standard .22LR.
Some folks like chocolate, and others like pistachio.
.
Last edited by Pete44ru on Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Just for the wonder of it, go to a gun shop or Bass Pro, or somewhere and look at a Henry. Run the lever a few times and throw it up to your shoulder. You might just have discovered another lever gun that will give you cause to consider another manufacturer. And you will not find quicker, better customer service should you ever need it. Whether it is the basic Henry H001 or the Golden Boy, or one of cowboy calibers, they are sweet. And by the way, they m ake a really nice pump gun in .22.
Hunters and Fishermen: The first environmentalists are still the best!
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:46 pm
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Why not purchase one of these.I have one coming a Uberti 66 with short stroke kit in 22lr
- kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
- Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
That's a nice looking rifle, Barbarossa.
I've purchased a Winnie 9422 Legacy. As soon as I get it, probably towards the end of next week, I'll get some pics up. Then it'll be time for a range report. Yahooo!
Thanks for all the replies guys.
I've purchased a Winnie 9422 Legacy. As soon as I get it, probably towards the end of next week, I'll get some pics up. Then it'll be time for a range report. Yahooo!
Thanks for all the replies guys.
Old Law Dawg
Re: I need an education on Marlin and Winchester 22's
Where did you find that? Do they still make them?barbarossa wrote:Why not purchase one of these.I have one coming a Uberti 66 with short stroke kit in 22lr
I've been looking for this or a 73 in 22 (not that I have the funds, but I can wish) for a while.