1895CB Reloads

[pebowbender]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I have recently purchased a Marlin 1895CB in 45-70. I've been researching hand loads and would like to hear what ya'll are shooting. My tentative recipe is;
Winchester brass trimmed to 2.095
Hornady 300gr hp's
Winchester primers
54gr of H4198
What's your recipe?

[salvo]

Welcome pebowbender!
That load should be a good one, my 1895G loves the .300 gr. load with 55gr of H4198

[Terry Murbach]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I have recently purchased a Marlin 1895CB in 45-70. I've been researching hand loads and would like to hear what ya'll are shooting. My tentative recipe is;
Winchester brass trimmed to 2.095
Hornady 300gr hp's
Winchester primers
54gr of H4198
What's your recipe?

DOES NOT ANYONE DEVELOPE LOADS ANYMORE LIKE YOU SHOULD??? YOU JUST PICK LOADS HITHER AND YON AND TOSS 'EM TOGETHER AND HOPE FOR THE BEST ???

[Blaine]

That might be a good load someday, but as suggested, why not start a bit lower and work up. You would be a max or near max with that load and all guns are a tad different, AND you might find a more accurate load that way.

[rjohns94]

Welcome to the forum. your load sounds great

[pebowbender]

OK Fellas...54gr (2200fps, yes I will be using a chrono) is where I want to end up!!! I will certainly be starting at 52gr and working to the most accurate load within the pressure range of the rifle. And if you will read the Hodgdon manual or even call the Hodgdon rep as I did, you would know that 55gr is their recommended min. load for the 300gr bullet. So I appologise for not spilling my guts with all the research I have done reguarding my new rifle. I just wanted to know what loads others were shooting.
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[Old Savage]

What changed - that is over the maximum in both Hodgdon #26 and Sierra's 50th anniversary edition For 4198 and 300 gr bullets for Marlins at 52 and 51.8 grs.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Be sure not to mix Hodgden and IMR data. O.S. , yes, I have seen discrepancies in load data and agree it is best to eror on the side of safety.

[Terry Murbach]

I FIND IT INTERESTING THE NEW SPEER NUMBER 14 MANUAL LISTS FOR USE IN LEVER GUNS A HIGH OF 43.Ogrs OF IMR4198 PUSHING THEIR 300gr BULLETS AT 1763FPS.
THEIR LISTING FOR THE VERY STRONGEST OF 45-70 RIFLES IS 48.Ogrs OF IMR4198 PUSHING THEIR 300gr BULLETS AT 2026fps.
AND YOU WANT 2200fps WITH 300gr BULLETS FROM A LEVERACTION CARBINE/RIFLE. Hmmmmmm........
I WOULD ASK WHY ?
I WOULD ASK WHY ANYONE WOULD CHOOSE A 45-70 300gr BULLET IN THE FIRST PLACE FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN SHOOTING GROUNDHOGS OR RATHER PUNY DEER.

[pebowbender]

Old Savage,
The Hodgdon data I have and was confirmed by the rep states for the 1895 lever action Marlin only, min H4198 55.0 gr = 2221fps at 27,600 cup and a max of 60.0gr = 2424 at40,000 cup. with a 300gr Siera HP.
This was achieved with a 24" barrell, and my CB has a 26" barrell. Therefor I "should" be able to get 2200fps at 54gr. I feel that this load will fall any critter roaming these North Carolina woods. Also, the data I have looked at says that in a scoped rifle the trajectory of this load will be +3" at 100yds and -4" at 200 yds. Although I wont be shooting a scope, I feel this is a manageable hold over/under for most shooting conditions.
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[salvo]

I referred to the Hodgdon online reloading data center for 45-70 (Lever Action) For my load. As pebowbender said it shows 55 gr of H4198 and a 300 gr bullet as a starting load and 60 gr as Max?
I would figure that his 54gr load should be totally safe in a Marlin 1895.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

I like the 300 gr bullet only because my Guide Gun does, I have worked with 300, 350 & 400 gr jacketed bullets so far and nothing shoots as good as the 300 gr. to date. I am going to buy a box of the Lazer cast .405 gr and do my best to find a milder as accurate load if I can.
Not sure why any one wants to make a new member feel so defensive about asking a question that many of us has asked before At least pebowbender seems to have thick skin, he should fit right in

[lozen]

I FIND IT INTERESTING THE NEW SPEER NUMBER 14 MANUAL LISTS FOR USE IN LEVER GUNS A HIGH OF 43.Ogrs OF IMR4198 PUSHING THEIR 300gr BULLETS AT 1763FPS.
THEIR LISTING FOR THE VERY STRONGEST OF 45-70 RIFLES IS 48.Ogrs OF IMR4198 PUSHING THEIR 300gr BULLETS AT 2026fps.
AND YOU WANT 2200fps WITH 300gr BULLETS FROM A LEVERACTION CARBINE/RIFLE. Hmmmmmm........
I WOULD ASK WHY ?
I WOULD ASK WHY ANYONE WOULD CHOOSE A 45-70 300gr BULLET IN THE FIRST PLACE FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN SHOOTING GROUNDHOGS OR RATHER PUNY DEER.

Did somebody get up on the wrong side of the bed? H4198 not IMR4198 I prefer 405's but anything that's hard to kill with a 300gr bullet going over 2000fps would be hard to kill with just about anything.

[Old Savage]

My question is what changed. I am aware they are using much more powder these days.

My chronographing had 1825 fps with 43.0 of 4198. You will likely from comparsions we did with the 22" and 26" Marlins get approx 60 to 100 fps more than my 22". That should get to 2200 before the stated charge. I would work this up due to the difference in their data from one manual to another. How old is your 4198?

[Southern Man]

I use 30 grains of xmp -5744 ,in Starline brass.
405 grain FP , cast from Lyman mold.
16 to 1, alloy.
Sized .459 , SPG lube.
It shoots about 2.00" @ 100 yards & 1700 fps from 22" bl.
It hammers hell out of stuff.
300 JHP are a bit more accurate in my gun.
I would not give up the wider meplat and 105 grains bullet weight for the diffrence.

Southern Man

[pebowbender]

Old Savage,
I bought the H4198 two weeks ago.
Southern Man,
Thanks for the info. How much harder is the 405's on your shoulder than the 300's?

[Old Savage]

In manual 26 they show IMR 4198 and H4198 as being approximately equal. Now they show H4198 being almost 3 grs. slower than H4198. I wonder what changed there - Maybe the present lot of H4198 is slower than what they had before.

Well, I would try something more conservative than their minimum and chronograph that to see where my rifle/load combo stacked up on the scale and go from there.

Let us know what you find?

[Old Savage]

Checking some past data:

With a Remington 300 gr. bullet:

Loads similar to the data from #26 produced slightly higher velocity in my 22" Marlin 1895SS with 47.5 gr of 4198 yielding an average 1990 fps.

A 26" CB on the same day with the same load yielded an average 2075 fps.

[Old Savage]

Recoil with 405s depends on the loads - keep them slow, 1400ish, and they aren't bad - try to push them fast and you may not like it.

[Southern Man]

Pebowbender
I do not feel a big diffrence in 300 Grn, @ 2000 - 2100 FPS.
Than the 405s @ 1600 -1700 FPS
I shot some 540 Grn. from a Houch mold, in my Shiloh sharps.
I feel a huge diffrence in it and the Marlin.
It flat out hurts from prone.
It's a big pussycat with the 405s.
I've found two guns of the same model may not dish out the same felt recoil, with the same load.
I just try to get the load as close to what I want it to do and still be able to deal with the recoil and call it good.
Unless It's not accurate enough to satisfy me.
Then I start over.
Guess that's why I shoot so much.

Southern Man

[Noah Zark]

. . . I WOULD ASK WHY ANYONE WOULD CHOOSE A 45-70 300gr BULLET IN THE FIRST PLACE FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN SHOOTING GROUNDHOGS OR RATHER PUNY DEER?

I've shot 300 gr JSPs in my 45-70s since the early 1980s, and have taken several deer, a couple javelina and one black bear with them. Velocity veries between 1820 and 1865 fps depending on the temperature and barrel length of the rifle from which that load is fired. My Pedersoli Sharps is particularly fond of that load; it gives up consistent 1.5" groups at 100 yds from the bench.

I've never considered shooting groundhogs or rather puny deer with 300s, though. What's been your experience with 300s on groundhogs and puny deer, Terry?

Noah

[EdinCT]

I load Nosler 300 grain Partitions over a heavy load of Reloader 7 for 2160fps in my cowboy for larger game. Also load the Speer 300 gr unicore over 50 grains of Reloader 7 for a deer load never checked fps but the deer don't out run it. I have never recovered a 300 gr bullet so see no reason to subject myself to more recoil of the 400 and where I hunt less mass flying through the trees after exit is a good thing.
I also load 405 gr cast over 42 grs of IMR 30-31 for targets and have recently cast alot of 350 gr lee's to give a try.

[pebowbender]

Excellent info!!! Thanks and keep it coming. I guess puny deer are more resillient than the bruisers???

[Blaine]

Before I started rolling my own, I used Federal 300s in my GuideGun. About 1800fps. One shot from a high angle hit a blacktail between the shoulder blades, turned south and lodged in around the pelvis..that's about 4 foot of deer.....Wrecked everything it touched and a perfect mushroom......

I'd use that on about anything. I recently bought a hundred Nosler 300s and those WILL be my hunting load. I'll work them up to about 2,000-2100fps.....whatever is accurate out to 300yds.

[44LVR]

I also load 405 gr cast over 42 grs of IMR 30-31 for targets .....

Heh heh! That is the load I use for elk! And have taken quite a few with it

You should see MY target loads............

44

[salvo]

I also load 405 gr cast over 42 grs of IMR 30-31 for targets .....

Heh heh! That is the load I use for elk! And have taken quite a few with it

You should see MY target loads............

44

I'm going to try that one!

[Terry Murbach]

THIS IS IN ANSWER TO NOAH ZARK'S COMMENTS.
IT KICKS A MUDHOLE IN THEIR BUTT AND STOMPS IT DRY, FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING !!! THE BULLET IS SHORT AND STUBBY WITH ALL THE ATTRIBUTES OF A VARMINT BULLET, TWO LEGGED OR FOUR LEGGED VARMINTS, SORT OF LIKE THE VAUNTED 357MAG 125gr JSP/JHP BULLET.
I THINK THE BEST ALL AROUND BULLET IN A 45-70 ARE THE 405'S OF DIFFERENT STYLES BOTH JACKETED AND CAST. A BIG OL' BLUFF NOSED CAST LFN 405gr JUST KILLS THE stuff OUTTA ANYTHING IN IT'S PATH, CHOPPING A 45 CALIBER HOLE STEM TO STERN, AND WHISTLING OFF INTO THE DISTANCE.
DO NOT LOOSE SIGHT OF THE FACT THE 45-70 300gr LOADS WERE INVENTED BY THE AMMUNITION COMPANIES SPECIFICALLY FOR DEER HUNTING. THAT AND THE FACT MOST FOLKS THOUGHT THEY KICKED A HELL OF A LOT LESS THAN THE HEAVIER BULLETED LOADS, AND WE BOTH KNOW MR AMERICAN DEER HUNTER HATES RECCOIL WITH A FUSCIA DAYGLO PURPLE PASSION. RECOIL ALSO SCARES HIM TO DEATH BECAUSE THE OVERWHELMING VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE DEER HUNTERS ARE NOT--NOT!!--GUNNERS/SHOOTERS/RIFLEMEN PER SE'.
MY FAVORITE FACTORY LOAD IS THE R-P 45-70 405gr JSP. ALL THE REST ARE MY LEAD BULLET HANDLOADS OVER 5744 PROPELLENT OF VARYING CHARGES. THE CHARGES VARY DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH RECOIL I WANT TO COPE WITH. I'VE NEVER BEEN SCARED OF RECOIL BUT NOW IN MY ADVANCED DOTAGE IT BEATS THE HELL OUT OF ME WEARING ME OUT IN THE PROCESS. A BOX OR TWO OF THE HEAVIER LOADS AND I FEEL LIKE I WAS IN A PRIZE FIGHT; I WAS THE LOSER !!! I'LL BE JUST BEATBUTT TIRED AFTERWARDS.
A FELLOW I USED TO KNOW BACK IN AMHERST USED TO HUNT GROUNDHOGS WITH A WINCHESTER M70 458WINMAG AND 350gr HORNADY JHP [ OR JSP...I FORGET NOW ] AND I TOO THOUGHT HE WAS NUTS !!!
I SEE I FORGOT TO MENTION SOME 350gr JSP 45-70 BULLETS THAT REALLY WORK WELL AS BIG GAME HUNTING BULLETS. THE KODIAK WAS A DOOZY IF YOU MANAGED TO GET A DECENT LOT OF 'EM. SOME WERE SO CRAPPILY MADE AS TO BEGGER COMPARISON WITH CANNALURES ALL OVER THE PLACE ETC.

[Southern Man]

I read an article by John Taffin today , in Guns
He talked like H-322 is hard to beat in 45-70
He was getting high velocity with 405s , and good accuracy.
I've had good luck with his loads before.
Think I'll try some.

Southern Man