Who makes New Winchester Rifles?

[geobru]

I might have gone to sleep at the switch and missed the answer to this question, but today I saw a pretty nice looking new production Winchester model 70 at the local candy store. It had a nice piece of wood on it and looked pretty nice.

I noticed that between Winchester and Morgan Utah, there was "BACO" inserted. I assume the acronym stands for B_____ Arms Company. What does the B stand for? Anyone know?

[arjunky]

Browning?

Byron

[Rimfire McNutjob]

There was a recent article in Rifle about them. I don't have the article in front of me but ... they are assembled in Columbia, SC at a Fabrique Nationale (FN) plant that primarily makes barrels for the military. The barrels are also made at that plant but the receivers are machined at another FN plant not far away. A third party makes the stocks. But it all comes together at the FN plant in Columbia, SC.

The article mentioned a few differences from the New Haven made guns. There's a newly designed trigger mechanism and some modifications have been made to the safety to make it operate with less effort. The reviewer also noted that the wood seemed a little soft and wouldn't take the 20 lpi checkering as well as it should ... points a bit rounded. Otherwise, it was an overall positive review.

They are marked "BACO Morgan, Utah" which is, of course, Browning Arms Co. ... a wholly owned subsidiary of FN.

[RSY]

Good answer, Rimfire.

[buckeyeshooter]

The new trigger is non adjustable and from what I have seen the new ones are 'average' in the accuracy department.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Good answer, Rimfire.

Thanks. I tried to recall what I could. I found the issue the review was in. It was by John Haviland in the recent Rifle Nov. 2008 issue No. 241. That issue has a lot of rifle reviews in it including the new 308 Remington R-25, the Winchester SXR, Ruger 77, S&W M&P15, Kimber 8400 Tactical, and Marlin XL7.

Rifle magazine usually finds its way to a place of honor in my bathroom the day it arrives so I get to read it ... a lot.

The new trigger is non adjustable and from what I have seen the new ones are 'average' in the accuracy department.

The Rifle review notes that the M.O.A. trigger is adjustable for pull and overtravel but I have not personally handled one.

I was interested in the description of the barrel making as the Model 70 barrels are apparently made there in the FN machine gun barrel factory. According to the review, these Model 70 barrels are drilled slightly oversize from steel rod. Then a mandrel with a reverse pattern of the rifling is inserted and they are put into a hammer forge to compress the steel around the rifled mandrel. I'm not sure at what temp the hammer forging takes place. The barrels then move over to machines that contour, chamber, and crown them.

Perhaps the hammer forging process makes for a quick but less than perfect way to rifle a barrel? I'm not a rifling expert or a match shooter so I have no idea really. I can imagine that in a factory where barrels are turned out for machine guns for the military that accuracy might not be at the top of the list compared to say ... cost.

[Marc]

All the major manufacturers use hammer forged barrels. There are good ones and bad ones just like any other barrel making process produces.

[BAGTIC]

Hammer forged barrels can be very accurate. SAKO as well as Winchester has long used them. US tank guns use forged barrels.

The reason most 'custom' barrel makers use cut or swaged barrels is not necessarily because of inevitably better barrels but because it is cheaper. Forging machines are very expensive.

[Haycock]

I shot a "2008 Limited Edition" new Model 70 Featherweight Deluxe in .270 recently. I thought fit and finish was okay, though the wood was very nice, and the "bluing" was more black than blue. For the price, in today's market, all in all not bad.

However.............

The marketing hype around this new M70 keeps mentioning the "controlled round feed" action and how its just like the pre-64 70s. Well, the one that I shot did have a claw extractor, but the actual face/edge of it was heavily beveled instead of straight like a Mauser. I don't know if the pre-64 M70s had straight-ish extractors or wavy ones, but I can tell you that this rifle WAS NOT A CONTROLLED-ROUND FEED ACTION! It was definitely the new model (i.e. it had the MOA trigger), but its extractor wouldn't bite the rim of the case until AFTER the cartridge was completely stripped out of the magazine and was almost totally in the chamber.

I was confused and disappointed.... when I have shot Mausers they control the cartridge by grabbing the rim BEFORE its completely out of the magazine... I was easily able to make this rifle double-feed....... easily...


Haycock

[RSY]

The marketing hype around this new M70 keeps mentioning the "controlled round feed" action and how its just like the pre-64 70s. Well, the one that I shot did have a claw extractor, but the actual face/edge of it was heavily beveled instead of straight like a Mauser. I don't know if the pre-64 M70s had straight-ish extractors or wavy ones, but I can tell you that this rifle WAS NOT A CONTROLLED-ROUND FEED ACTION! It was definitely the new model (i.e. it had the MOA trigger), but its extractor wouldn't bite the rim of the case until AFTER the cartridge was completely stripped out of the magazine and was almost totally in the chamber.

I just pulled the bolt out of a 1916 Oberndorf Gewehr 98, and its claw is beveled, too. Not as much as the M70, but beveled, nonetheless.

Scott

[Haycock]

The marketing hype around this new M70 keeps mentioning the "controlled round feed" action and how its just like the pre-64 70s. Well, the one that I shot did have a claw extractor, but the actual face/edge of it was heavily beveled instead of straight like a Mauser. I don't know if the pre-64 M70s had straight-ish extractors or wavy ones, but I can tell you that this rifle WAS NOT A CONTROLLED-ROUND FEED ACTION! It was definitely the new model (i.e. it had the MOA trigger), but its extractor wouldn't bite the rim of the case until AFTER the cartridge was completely stripped out of the magazine and was almost totally in the chamber.

I just pulled the bolt out of a 1916 Oberndorf Gewehr 98, and its claw is beveled, too. Not as much as the M70, but beveled, nonetheless.

Scott

Okay... at what point does the extractor bite and control the round? Before its out of the mag, right?

The bolt on the new M70 seems to sit higher than it should, so that the lower bolt-face just pushes the cartridge along and into the chamber until there is only an inch or so remaining, THEN it chomps down on the rim. If you pull back on the bolt before that last moment and retract it fully it'll double-feed.


Haycock