Reduced loads

[MGTom]

I have a Remington Rolling Block carbine in 7mm. The gun is in really good condition but must be close to 100 years old.

I have fired 20+ rounds of modern factory ammo with it but I am reloading at reduced levels due to the age of the gun and the recoil. I have gotten most of my brass for reloading from the fired factory 140 grain ammo. My bravery is faltering.

Can I take some factory ammo in 7mm Mauser which I have and pull the bullets with my handy dandy inertia puller and then reduce the saved powder by say 10% and then reseat the bullets? If this is possible, what percent reduction in powder would you recommend?

Thanks, Tom

[20cows]

If it were me, I'd pull the bullets and recharge the cases with a known (published) amount of a known powder.

Why guess when it's not necessary? It's not worth the risk to me.

[El Chivo]

remember there is at least one powder that if you reduce it more than 3% it's unsafe. I say if you don't know what the powder is, dump it. Powder's cheap.

[Ray Newman]

See what 20cows said....

[TedH]

I wouldn't mess with it at all. Factory ammo is loaded with old timers like yours in mind. But if you feel you should, don't reduce what's there. You have no idea what it is. Dump it and recharge.

If I had a modern 7mm like a Ruger, I would pull the bullets out of the factory rounds and load them up to modern standards.

[Hobie]

You should examine your fired cases closely and compare them to your unfired factory ammo. Most/many Remington 7x57s aren't using chambers cut to 7x57mm standards.

...the rifle is chambered for a slightly different Spanish 7mm Model 93 cartridge (aka 1893 7mm Mauser).

E.g. case length is 2.24" vs 2.235" (older vs newer) and length head to shoulder is 1.71" vs 1.470" (now that is the critical headspace length). Also, Winchester brass has a thinner rim and might work whereas Remington brass might not.

My friend has one of these 1902 guns. It is pretty darn neat.

You should get a manual and pick a powder that produces the pressures suitable to the firearm. Also, modify your loading procedures to work the brass as little as possible. Let us know how this goes. It is an interesting project!

[junkbug]

I have done this with surplus rifle cartridges, but it is tedious, and the older cartridges don't have much chance of being loaded with ball powder, which can be dangerous to reduce. You would be money ahead buying 100-200 new casws mail order, and starting from scratch. It would be a lot less effort, and you could use powders that are really useful for reduced load, like SR 4759. IMR 4895 works well for both reduced loads and loads near the original miltary levels.

Good luck, and be safe.



Sean

[J Miller]

I agree with junkbug, just buy new components and build your ammo to suite your rifle.

However if you do need to pull down existing loaded ammo, a much less fatiguing method is to buy a collet bullet puller for your press. Usually the bullets come out undamaged and you don't risk having powder scatter all over the place as can happen with inertia pullers.

Joe

[MGTom]

Thanks for the good advice.
I think I will just get new cases and load them with 4895 as I did with the others.
You guys are great!

Tom

[Ben_Rumson]

FYI
From April 1959 American Rifleman article page 31..
Large numbers of both 1897 and M 1902 rolling blocks military rifles and carbines in 7mm Mauser calibers as well as the sporting type Model 5 are in common use today throughout the world . A considerable quantity of military rifles and carbines, along with the original military ammunition, have been sold by U.S. dealers during the last few years. These arms apparently have been quite satisfactory when used with original military ammunition of German manufacture, but we have received a number of reports concerning cartridge case head separations when current factory cartridges were used. When recently approached on this subject a spokesman for Remington Arms company wrote us that these arms were chambered .0065 to .0131 inch longer than the current standard minimum chamber, and original German ammunition was manufactured accordingly. Thus a condition of excessive head space will be automatically encountered when using the current factory ammunition. For this reason a certain amount of case stretching with attendant possibility of actual head separation can occur with present day commercial ammunition.

Our Remington informant also states: “ prior to 1933 the muzzle velocity of 7mm. Ammunition, with the 175 grain metal case bullet, was approximately 2300 fps.
Since that date , commercial 7mm ammunition has been loaded to a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,490fps with a some what higher pressure level. Such ammunition is intended for use in modern bolt action types of arms of suitable and modern design.”

Gunsmiths back in the day recommended using 8x57 Mauser necked down to 7mm because the shoulder position reflects where it was originally on the 7x57 , or seating bullets out to touch the rifling in 7mm Mauser cases so that the base of the case gets positioned far enough back so it’s in contact with the block.. Upon firing the shoulder is then blown forward and a proper fitting case is then formed.

[Hobie]

Ben's post reflects another view of the same issue. Please, don't ignore it.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Good info from Ben and Hobie, I have read the same in several publications over the years. I believe there was one in The Fouling Shot this summer.