OT: .45 Autos

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Who would you say makes the best 1911 or compact .45 auto these days? I admit, I'd still like to own one but not sure which I would invest in.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:32 pm

Don't know about what's "best", but the Kimbers that I have played with have been top notch. If I were in the market, that's where I'd likely end up.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:32 pm

I like my Colts.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:45 pm

There's a lot of info here: http://forums.1911forum.com/index.php
The general consensus seems to be Colt, Springfield, STI. There is a fair amount of criticism aimed at Kimber, though every one I've seen seemed to be of high quality. High end guns, like Wilson and Brown get the highest compliments and reviews, but also the highest prices.
Please let us know what you buy, with pictures of course!

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:46 pm

Forgot to mention that OD said Les Baer was the best.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Like Hobie, I have two Colts, a Government Model & Officers Model. When I bought them Colt was about the only maker in the ring.

I sure like the looks of the new Dan Wesson's and Les Baer though.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:26 pm

Best? That is highly subjective.

And you don't mention $$$...

I have a Springfield 1911A1 that I've made a few mods to - match trigger, Wilson group gripper, grips, etc. that I really like.

I think for the money, Springfield is hard to beat.

Kimbers are pricier but really nice.

From what I've read Taurus probably makes the best value for the $$$ right now - for all of the features that they offer.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:39 pm

I've carried a Kimber Compact Stainless Aluminum (they don't call it that anymore) for 10 years.

I like it.

bj94 · Post by **bj94** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:50 pm

Wilson, Ed Brown and Les Baer are the best, but limited production and very expensive.
Of the mainstream manufacturers, I think Kimber, Springfield and Para Ordnance are the best. S&W is also making 1911's and they are supposed to be good too. You probably can't go wrong with any of these brands. The full size guns (5" barrels) and the "commander sized" guns (4"-4.25" barrels) are also good. I gather that the smaller ones (3" barrels) can be problematic.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:58 pm

I have an old AMT 'generic' 1911 that goes bang very reliably, and I've known people with $1,500 'custom' ones that jam every couple of magazines, so they are individual entities. Mine has been dropped on gravel and asphalt, fallen into manure (it is a chore gun, after all

), and generally been abused and neglected, and not had ANY 'custom' options. I spent about $230 on it new. Still, after all that, this is the gun my 13 year old kid can hit the gong with 5 of 7 times at 100 yards, so why would I want anything 'better?'

(Of course I still did look for something 'better' ...) If you don't mind spending 'serious' money, and if you have large hands, try a Para Ordnance - the 'high capacity' isn't really needed in .45, but they work JUST FINE. It isn't exactly a BAD thing to have 12 rounds in an "Officer's" size 1911, or 14 rounds in a regular one, either. The moment I picked one up and felt the 'fit' I knew it was THE .45 for me, and only later did I realize it was a 'wide body' grip.

If you like DOUBLE action triggers, at least try their "LDA" version. I don't care for double action, but for awhile I had one and it had the smoothest action of ANY double action gun I've ever handled; trigger was sort of a double action version of a Contender's single action trigger!

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:16 pm

I'm sure I'll hear some giggles at this - but I have a cheap Llama ($239) that came with decent sights, a good trigger and stays inside 3" at 25 yds. Not a tack driver but it's the one I grab in the middle of the night. Like AJMD, mine goes bang every time and does not jam.

I have owned several 1911 .45's and the best by far was a satin chrome Colt Series '70 with the spring finger barrel bushing. That one would one-hole at 25 yds and compete with a rifle out to about 75 yds; probably would have done somewhat better in a real marksman's hands. I was a real dunce to lose that one - traded it for a model 57 S&W. I also had a match gun built by a local guy with a Springfield slide on an Essex frame and a Bar-Sto barrel but it jammed incessantly and was not nearly as accurate as the Colt.

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:24 pm

I've had good luck with my Taurus. It's been very reliable with mags it likes. I've got 3000+ through mine now with a few failures(mostly magazine related, concrete does bad things to mags). I went through the academy with mine and that's what I carry every day. I wouldn't call it the "best" 1911 out there, but as O.S.O.K. says, IMO they are a very good value for the buck. From what I've read, their customer service is not so good, but I've never needed it.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:07 pm

I've had a number of 1911's throughout the years. I like Colts, Kimbers, and very fond of my Les Baer. You're going to pay for quality no matter how you look at it. May as well pay a little more and get something you can be proud to own. PS - There is a number of quality 1911's out there right now. Shouldn't be hard to find a good one.

DerekR · Post by **DerekR** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:19 pm

I have a Springfield "Loaded" that I'm very fond of.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:30 pm

I'll second the Para-Ordnance. They deviate some from the original 1911 specs, but I like the extra capacity and my hands have no problems with the thicker grip area.

kirkwood · Post by **kirkwood** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:02 pm

I like my Para as well. I would not hesitate buying another.

Rustolium · Post by **Rustolium** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:11 am

I like my Springer Commander! No jams or malfunctions.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:20 am

Hobie wrote:I like my Colts.

Have had a couple Springfields. Nice pistols. No luck with Kimber.

If you've got the bucks Les Bear and Wilson are the way to go.

Prices are creeping up on the old Argentine 1911A1s (Systema 1927).
Excellent pistols. Well made and very accurate.

jb

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:06 am

Cant add much to this: Wilson, Brown and Les Baer are top of the line. Paraordnace does a pretty good job. I have had excellent luck with Kimbers - especially the Gold Cup version with lots of Wilson add ons. Got rid of them all for a Sig 220 Elite. Top Shelf!!!!

donw · Post by **donw** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:13 am

i'm in the "i can't add much to this" catagory, too but...

i've had a number of colt 1911's and still have one. i also have a IMI desert eagle baby eagle.

it's pretty difficult to beat the colt insofarsas reliability and availability.

the colt is easy to carry as it's thin (i have the seven shot model) and accurate enough to do what needs to be done, if it needs to be done.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:42 am

I'd choose a Smith DA revolver in 45 auto, if i HAD to buy a 45 auto. I've had a fair pile of mostly Colt 1911's (GI, commercial, National Match, and combat comanders), and a Springfield GI, shot many thousands of rounds thru them, and they have all choked more often than I'm comfortable with in a gun I'd take at all seriously.

If you have a 1911 you like, don't let me shoot it, I seem to be a 1911 jinx.

YMMV

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:35 pm

malamute,
I agree, My new s&w in .45acp is a very kewl pistol and the Sig has taken a back seat to it.

Paratrooper Dave · Post by **Paratrooper Dave** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:46 pm

9/30/08

Aries,

Since I left the U.S. Army many years ago I always wanted to own a 45.

Well last fall between Marlinitis bouts, I looked at a good number of 45's from differeent manufactureers and finally (in May) settled on a Springfield.

I couldn't be more satisfied; it shoots straight, it is very reliable and I have had no problems at all with it.

I really don't think you can go wrong with a Springfield.

Good luck.

Paratrooper Dave

diego · Post by **diego** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:46 pm

Trying to put together a para kit gun together, also an Safari Arms Camp Perry

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:10 pm

i have an RIA .45 with the 4" barrel. i bought it about 7 years ago. it shoots the 230gr. win ranger hollowpoint accurately and reliably out to 25 yards. since i use it as my night stand gun, i haven,t tried it at longer distances. at around $300 new, it does all i need it to do.

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:04 pm

I admit I like the look of the Les Baer Commanche.....

But around $2000. I also still love single action revolvers and might stick with my Uberti .45 Cattleman or maybe even add another single action in the same caliber. My other guns include a Stoeger Silverado Coach Gun 12 gauge and Winchester Trapper .30-30.

blackhawk44 · Post by **blackhawk44** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:40 pm

Have had many ACPs over the years, nothing custom or high dollar. My main piece had been a series 70 Gold Cup for 20 odd years but about 10 years ago came upon two Kimbers, a Pro Carry and Gold Target. The Pro Carry will shoot right with the Gold Cup and the Gold Target will beat it. They are the most reliable, accurate and easy to shoot over the counter 1911's I've ever had. Hope your results are as good.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:01 pm

I first started shooting 1911's in the early eighties, shooting IPSC, NRA Hunter Pistol, NRA Bullseye, and later IdPA. I have owned and shot a lot of 45's, and I have been around a lot of custom 1911's.

Frankly, any really good pistol smith can take a decent example of the 1911 and turn it into a fine shooting custom pistol that will run pretty much with 100% or at least 99.9% reliability, and with pretty decent accuracy. Now, at the same time, I have seen a whole lot of customized 1911's that didn't do as well, and it all comes back to less then the best choice of aftermarket parts and or workmanship, fine tuning of the weapon etc.

When you start talking out of the box factory guns, I have seen all brands give problems, and need a little help to get them running right. And I have seen plenty of out of the box guns run pretty good, but usually never as smooth as a nice custom gun. But be careful of buying a used custom gun, there are plenty of home gunsmiths that work on 1911's and even though a gun may have lots of custom parts on it, if that custom work was poorly done, then you can end with a piece of jamming junk.

Be careful of the compact 1911's because many don't run reliably, I don't care what brand they are.

I currently own a Wilson Combat 5 inch 1911, and it is my smoothest and finest 1911. I had it special made just for me, to my specs, but I still ended up having to fix the ambi-safety myself, before it was 100% reliable, and being left handed I ended up changing out the slide release, for another model they had, and modifying it to suit me, before I was happy. But in the end, it's a fine gun that is a joy to use, in competition and also makes a fine self defense.

I have an old series 70 Colt (satin nickel lower, but the nickel is mostly gone, due to the many years of shooting it) with a custom upper that was chromed by the same people that did Wilson's pistols in the 80's. It's a fine shooter and almost as smooth as the Wilson. I have shot this one in competition since the 80's, and if I remember correctly the only parts I ever had to replace was one extractor, and one firing pin. I have no idea how many rounds it's fired, but it's a lot.

I also own a Kimber Custom Compact, 4 inch gun. It's been shot maybe a couple of thousand rounds or so. I had to replace the mag release button, which broke. And I added an ambi-safety, and a good set of Wilson wood grips to it, because the factory wood grips split. And I added a full length guide rod to it, which I think makes it run smoother. My Wilson and series 70 Colt have full length guide rods also.

I also own a Springfield U.S. Mil-spec Light weight Commander size gun, but it's not a true commander as it has a 4 inch ramped barrel and a funky double recoil spring set up, instead of the 4.25 inch long barrel and standard spring set up of the Classic Colt 1911 Commander. This gun has had a Wilson ambi-safety added by me, and a set of Wilson wood grips. I like the very low profile issue GI sights on this gun because I sometimes like to carry it (Mexican carry) without a holster. and the tiny sights leave nothing to hang up on. But this gun still needs work. It's picky on what Magazines will lock the slide back, which I believe goes back to a too stiff working slide lock. And I don't like the double recoil spring setup. But I can't just change it out, as Springfield has chosen to not be so called mis-spec on the slide and I am going to have to do some custom work on it to get it set up like I want it. This gun has potential, to be a favorite carry gun for me, but still needs a little work.

I like the ramped barrel on the Springfield, as Colts and other brands have given problems in the past, with the lightweight alloy ramps getting beat up, and causing a few problems, that are hard to fix. But I wish Springfield had left the rest of the gun truly Mil-spec. But Springfield is not known for doing that, on their 1911's or their M1A's and it causes some problems for people.

Sorry for the long post.

OD* · Post by OD* » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:17 pm

Hobie wrote:I like my Colts.

I still like my Colt's too.

With a lot of help from John at http://www.proload.com/ and Les himself, I had Baer Custom build a National Match Hardball to look very similar to a Colt.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:27 am

My son has a Rock Island that shoots very well. His is box stock and goes BANG all the time.

Aries · Post by **Aries** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:31 pm

Speaking of .45 autos, I recently saw the movie Extreme Prejudice from 1987 where Nick Nolte did lots of shooting with a .45. I need to look for that one on DVD.

Cowboy1 · Post by **Cowboy1** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:57 am

The best 1911's made are the redesigned Detonics .45's made recently when the company was resurrected about three years ago. They have toured the gun mfg shows demonstrating their full size model that has fired 31,000 rounds without one jam, and without one cleaning. THAT's reliability.
Arizona Cowboy

okdee · Post by **okdee** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:56 am

I am a fan of 5" Colts, Remingtons, and Springfields.

I am a fan of Taurus and Springfields Compacts.

Nice for CC.

I also like my Bond Derringer!

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:18 pm

I'll add another Amen to the Rock Island .45, my son bought one from my friend at church that is as perfect in function as you can get.

scr83jp · Post by **scr83jp** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:10 pm

I purchased a mil surplus 1911A1 from the NRA in 1962 for $13.95 + shipping it rattled when I moved it and accuracy wasn't great so I traded it in for a $65 S&W Chiefs Special the dealer allowed me $25 for the 45.I bought a slightly used 1991A1 from a local dealer then it went to a pistolsmith for mods so I could hit what I aimed at.My next semiauto purchase was a Sig Sauer P220 45 acp best accurate out of the box semiauto I've ever owned this is one of my ccw carry weapons.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:57 pm

I like Colt and Les Baer. My three Kimbers had moderate to severe functional issues, and I will never spend money on a Kimber again. I have told the long version on this forum before, so will not repeat it, especially as one wrist is ailing from too much typing and other things. My one remaining 1911 is a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, quite possibly the best carry autoloader in the world. Baers fit my hand best due to the way the front strap's junction with the trigger guard is sculpted. It is not just "feel" that is important here; it also ensures I depress the grip safety far enough. A 'smith could modify another 1911 to fit the same, but Baers come that way, stock.

I believe in the 5"-barreled 1911. Anything shorter is flirting with reliability issues, though I will concede that there are plenty of reliable Commander-size and Officers-size 1911s out there. Balance is another reason; I prefer the feel of the Government-sized guns.

FWIW, I carried 1911s as duty pistols for quite a few years, but now use SIG P229 pistols for that, due to agency regs. The P229 is an excellent little pistol, though its chunkiness is a factor when worn in an inside-the-waistband holster.

revolverjunkie · Post by **revolverjunkie** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:30 am

IMHO kimbers and springfields are my fisrt choice for a 1911
alot of people are having good luck with taurus but my personal experience has been a bad one maybe i just got a lemon
but there customer service department sucks at best. it wouldn't have been that bad if i didn't have to keep looking around the gravel at my range for a safty detent and spring

not to mention the lug slot cut into the reciver was more the DOUBLE the tolerance of an original design. oh and did i mention that after less than 1000 rounds the extractor was boogered. on a good note the trigger was crisp and the barrel and bushing were match grade and the barrel lug was what the slot sohuld have been cut at lol for what thats worth.
bout the best group i could shoot was 2" @ 25 yards with 230 fmj's over i belive 5.6 grains of bullseye
i would have never given that gun up if i didn't have so many problems with it. i really liked it but i can only take so much sloppy manufacture.

also does anyone have any experince with the the S&W 1911's i like the exteranl extractor.

Whew now my fingers hurt

Neil Casper · Post by **Neil Casper** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:50 am

For a box-stock factory production gun I go with Kimbers. Second choice was Springfield but If I were to buy a new 1911 I think I would try a S&W. I've owned 5-6 Colt 1911s, two of them were Gold Cups. All gone now.
My wife has taken control of my Kimber stainless Classic and I shoot/carry an Ultra CDP II. Both guns have been flawless for thousands of rounds, the Ultra CDP II has had almost 10,000 rounds through it without a malfuntion (other than experimental handloads).

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:40 am

I've owned a couple of Colt Gold Cups and used them in PPC and IPSC competitions back in the day. Won a 70 series Goverment Model in a match one time which I sent to Wilson for custom work back in the late 70's. It became my favorite .45, and was my go to and bedside gun for many years. My son also liked it, so I gave it to him a couple of years ago.
Since then I have used a couple of Kimbers, first was a Stainless TLE II and then a used Pro CDP (Commander size), a cops trade in. Both are more accurate than my eyes can see anymore and function has been perfect with factory ammo, though the stainless has choked a few times on some junk reloads.
I'd like to find another good Colt though, and if I had the money a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special would be high on my list.

OD* · Post by OD* » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:55 am

revolverjunkie wrote:also does anyone have any experince with the the S&W 1911's i like the exteranl extractor.

My best friend has two lightweights, a Government Model and a Commander Model. I have been able to put a lot of rounds through both, I'd own a S&W 1911 in a heartbeat, excellent pistols. Their use of the external extractor is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned, unlike Kimber who thought they knew better, S&W copied the Hi-Powers external extractor and it works perfectly.

Hank Dodge · Post by **Hank Dodge** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:43 pm

I'm a big fan of the .45 auto. I've owned a Colt's Gold Cup, a Combat Elite, and a Defender. The Combat Elite has been a great pistol; but the others have suffered many problems getting them to run right. That Combat Elite runs great and has done so for the 15+ years that I've owned it. The Gold Cup has had functional issues that continue to plague it. The Defender is a great size and weight for a CCW pistol. It would malfunction every ten to fifteen rounds when I first bought it. I sent it back to Colt and it now seems to function fine with 230 FMJ rounds. I have just begun to trust it as a carry gun.

Now...As I said, I love that Combat Elite and wanted to buy another 5" gun. Well, I started looking into it and ended up sold on a Les Baer Thunder Ranch. I talked on the phone with Les himself and he impressed me. He seemed quite knowledgeable and straight forward. I test fired one at a local gun shop and ended up ordering one through them. I can say that this weapon is 110% reliable and extremely well made. It fits my hand and style of shooting to a tee. The fit and finish is remarkable for a semi-production gun; they obviously take pride in their work. If I had to settle for just one .45 auto, it would be this one.

As for the compacts....I live in kalifornia and therefore have some restrictions. If I could ( but I can't ) I'd buy the Les Baer Stinger model. It's because of these restrictions that I purchased my Defender. I like the shorter grip frame and the overall reduced size and weight for concealed carry. As stated before, the Defender has had some issues and the fit and finish is nowhere close to the quality that Les Baer puts out. Yep, If I could I buy the Stinger as a CCW weapon.

Hank

Bullard4075 · Post by **Bullard4075** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:40 pm

An easier question to answer would be what are the 1911s to stay away from.
The answer is ................. I can't think of any.
For example I have a Auto-Ordnance Corp 1911 that it seems everyone hates , but mine has been a cherry.
In almost 40 years of shooting 1911s most problems can be traced to two things - magazines and handloads.
I have or have had Colts, Kimbers, Springfields and most other makers. When having problems I usually look to magazines and then double check my handloads.
The third problem area is an incorrect recoil spring.
Over the years I have got a lot of real good "deals" on so-called bad guns.
My experience .....YMMV.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:34 pm

I made a deal on an early 2000 vintage Auto Ordinance 1911...lightly used rental gun... $300 bucks. I was looking for a good shooter to teach the kids the 1911 with ...save the wear on tear on my nice Colt.

You can see the casting parting line on the hammer and a couple of other parts...the slide lock safety is a little mushy... not a real solid click.

It outshoots a Series 80 Colt that cost nearly 2.5 times a much...........the Colt still fails to feed now and then ...but is better now that it is broken in.

The Auto Ordinace will shoot 4 inches at 25 yards... rested on sandbags with Wolf ammo..... It has never hiccuped and I like it.

Hankster · Post by **Hankster** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:33 pm

Give the CZ brand a look before you plunk down your hard earned cash. They build a good reliable gun at decent prices.
As to Nick Nolte in "Extreme Prejudice"....look closer at the close up shots....that isn't a .45 bore!! More like .38 super I think you'll find... but the gun is still bad nonetheless!!

As to "Accurized" and Competition tuned" guns....cool for targets....BAD for self defense!! The tuning and tighter barrel bushings etc, make for better accuracy, but lower reliability. My CZ 75 shoots respectable groups, but you CANNOT make it jamb.And trust me. I've TRIED!! It's a COMBAT weapon....as were the ORIGINAL 1911's....they were looser for a REASON!! NO JAMMING from dirt etc.!
Ask any combat vet you know....WHICH gun he'd rather pick up to save his skin after dropping it into the dirt/mud/sand etc.....M16...or AK47???? AK will win. WHY?? Loose built combat weapon...a bit less accurate to be sure...but it'll FIRE when the M16 WON'T!!
At the range..use your hotrodded target toy. When your LIFE is on the line....use a combat designed/proven weapon.
When you're shooting at Joe mugger, aiming at CM ....do you really think an 1 1/2 inch difference in grouping matters???

OD* · Post by OD* » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:06 am

as were the ORIGINAL 1911's....they were looser for a REASON!! NO JAMMING from dirt etc.!

That's internet myth about the "original 1911s" being built loose. It's clear those who state the "original 1911s" were built looser have never handled an "original 1911." The tolerances of the pistol were loosened in November of 1942 because they were having problems with parts interchangeability between the different manufacturers. It's also myth that a tight 1911 is less reliable than a loose 1911, Baer disproved that myth many years ago.

kooz · Post by **kooz** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:37 am

Aries wrote:Who would you say makes the best 1911 or compact .45 auto these days? I admit, I'd still like to own one but not sure which I would invest in.

I would say it's a stuff shoot. Doesn't make much difference as long as you get one of the major brands. With the 1911 design you pay your money and take your chances. I have had expensive 1911s that that would choke and gag on every range trip and had basic out of the box 1911s that fed just fine. For my money the Springfield XD gets the green light, they are accurate and totaly reliable right out of the box and cost just under $500 new. I guess it depends what your going to use it for, if it's just a shooter for the range, the 1911s looks real nice with ivory grips and they are very nostelgic, but for a reliable carry gun I have given up on the 1911 platform.

OD* · Post by OD* » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:21 am

The 1911 shooters with the least experience seem to UNIVERSALLY have the most problems. - Bob Rodgers-

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:13 pm