Lowest sight elevator - always.

[EG73]

Why is it whenever I look at rifles for sale (92’s, 86’s, 76’s, cold lightnings) etc the rear elevator is always on its lowest possible notch. Do they always shoot high? Do we need to load them hotter, milder? My 1892 shoots really high with factory sights on the maxed out rear sight also. Why is this a thing ?

[Scott Tschirhart]

I find something similar with Ruger single action revolvers and Smith & Wesson double actions. I have to screw the rear sight all the way down to the frame to hit with them.

[Walt]

Thankfully most Smiths have pinned front sights and I have replaced a number of mine. Rugers come with medium height rear sight blades that can either be replaced or cut down. Replacing a Smith rear sight blade when the front is not pinned can be a very frustrating chore. I imagine manufacturers choose sights for their guns that are most appropriate for factory ammo.

[Grizz]

I find something similar with Ruger single action revolvers and Smith & Wesson double actions. I have to screw the rear sight all the way down to the frame to hit with them.

would the sights work with original black powder loads? do the cowboy action shooters experience the same thing? IDK

[OldWin]

I run into this too, especially with carbines. Whether they did this on purpose by filing the front blade or its just wore, I don't know. I usually end up making a new blade from an old Master lock key and swapping it.
My 73 carbine has the one piece post and blade, so I just deal with it. I don't have this problem so much with rifles.

[Malamute]

In Madis' Winchester book he shows the various sights and elevators, he mentions that according to Winchester the sights were meant to be zeroed for either 50 or 100 yards on the lowest step, then each step was a 50 yard increase in range. the most commonly used ones in the 1900 period and later for some time, the elevators were made for different cartridge classes, meaning the steps had different heights. The tiny screw and slider in the rear of the rear sight was for fine tuning the zero. The later ones with the two small screws attaching the sight face to the base achieved the same thing.

Some parts sellers have the different elevators, I believe designated with A B and C subcategories for the main type.

Homestead has a fairly good assortment, They call them 4 step but in reality they are 5 step with the lowest notch and highest included.

https://homesteadparts.com/shop/sights- ... =4d&page=2

Rear sights have devolved over time, nobody seems to understand the way they were used on earlier guns.

[LeverGunner]

For my Winchester 94 carbine 30-30, using a Marble semi-buckhorn long sight, the second notch is right on at 75 yards. I set it this way with my fine adjustment on the sliding notch piece. I also reversed it so that it's all black. Set this way, when it's in the lowest setting, it's good for close range plinking, such as 25-40 yard tin cans.

http://www.marblearms.com/rear-sights.html

[black river smith]

In Madis' Winchester book he shows the various sights and elevators, he mentions that according to Winchester the sights were meant to be zeroed for either 50 or 100 yards on the lowest step, then each step was a 50 yard increase in range. the most commonly used ones in the 1900 period and later for some time, the elevators were made for different cartridge classes, meaning the steps had different heights. The tiny screw and slider in the rear of the rear sight was for fine tuning the zero. The later ones with the two small screws attaching the sight face to the base achieved the same thing.

BINGO, to this statement.

My Original 1873 in 44/40 with full BP loads was sighted to 50 yards for bottom step. Then each step was an increase of 50 yards. This was also true for my Original 1892 in 38/40.

I re-built a 1970's Marlin 1894 into an octagon 'older looking' rifle back in 1991, before having the 1873, using the information above. The Lyman rear sight I bought for it was the long full buckhorn. I sighted in using the bottom step as a 50 yard starting point for filing down my new front sight. After that was hitting where I wanted, I move up one notch and it shot dead on at 100 yards, then to 150 for 3rd.

I use this same approach for any new or used leveraction I have come across. Full standard loads are Necessary for this to work as the factory originally put out.

[AJMD429]

.
I'm partial to 'peep' sights on rifles, but on carbines that leads me naturally to like 'ghost ring' type sights.

A good combination is the Marble's Bullseye sight - it has two concentric rings, and the outer is just thick enough to be VERY fast to acquire - as a 'ghost ring' for snap shooting moving game, etc.. The inner aperture is fine and needs you to take about one extra second to perceive, and then it behaves as a finer 'target' aperture.

One minor problem related to this post is they are 'tall' - although since you sight through the CENTER not the top, they are kind of like the 'tall' of a full Buckhorn type sight. They are darned near indestructible (try drilling one - better have spare carbide bits), and will replace most rear sights without having to get a taller front, but not always.

The only other problem with the sight is it isn't adjustable other than by 'elevator' and 'drift' - much as any other 'normal open sight'. I'd LOVE them to put one on a base like the Williams FP base (in fact they make a drift-only model I thought about trying to machine and fit to the Williams base).

This link shows the Bullseye relative to the Buckhorn, SemiBuckhorn, and regular Flat-top sights - http://www.marblearms.com/rear-sights.html

[Grizz]

.
I'm partial to 'peep' sights on rifles, but on carbines that leads me naturally to like 'ghost ring' type sights.

A good combination is the Marble's Bullseye sight - it has two concentric rings, and the outer is just thick enough to be VERY fast to acquire - as a 'ghost ring' for snap shooting moving game, etc.. The inner aperture is fine and needs you to take about one extra second to perceive, and then it behaves as a finer 'target' aperture.

One minor problem related to this post is they are 'tall' - although since you sight through the CENTER not the top, they are kind of like the 'tall' of a full Buckhorn type sight. They are darned near indestructible (try drilling one - better have spare carbide bits), and will replace most rear sights without having to get a taller front, but not always.

The only other problem with the sight is it isn't adjustable other than by 'elevator' and 'drift' - much as any other 'normal open sight'. I'd LOVE them to put one on a base like the Williams FP base (in fact they make a drift-only model I thought about trying to machine and fit to the Williams base).

This link shows the Bullseye relative to the Buckhorn, SemiBuckhorn, and regular Flat-top sights - http://www.marblearms.com/rear-sights.html

i put the bullseye sight on a couple of rifles on your suggestion long ago. now i wonder if it wouldn't work great with just the inner ring. i find the outside ring to be a little distracting. the bullet is going where the dot is in the little aperture. have you ever tried this mod?

[EG73]

I don’t suppose anyone knows what height sight I’ll need for a 25-20 hitting about 6” high at 50? Current is .35” but I got some taller ones and they’re super loose in the dovetail

[AJMD429]

i put the bullseye sight on a couple of rifles on your suggestion long ago. now i wonder if it wouldn't work great with just the inner ring. i find the outside ring to be a little distracting. the bullet is going where the dot is in the little aperture. have you ever tried this mod?

No but it would be easy enough with a Dremel grinder/cutter to slice off the outer ring.

They make three varieties - a short-ramp, a long-ramp, and a dovetail-only.

I have a dovetail-only one I keep thinking I could machine the bottom part of to fit into the threaded channel in a Williams FP base.

[Walt]

EG73, according to the math, the front sight would need to be .066" higher to hit at point of aim at 50 yards if your sight radius is 20" and .05" if your sight radius is 15". I have used a sharp punch to dimple the bottom of the dovetail as well as the bottom of the sight and then used loctite to hold it in place.

Alternatively, you can put a piece of shim stock in the bottom of the dovetail to tighten up the fit.

[Scott Tschirhart]

When we were boys, we used the elevators on our .22s to help compensate for range. We shot so much that we could knock killdees out of the air. (Wouldn’t be safe there now)

I had not thought that the elevator was set by design, but people would have wanted that kind of thing back in the day.

[LeverGunner]

I've heard of old timers fine tuning a particular notch in their elevator by filing that notch deeper.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I've heard of old timers fine tuning a particular notch in their elevator by filing that notch deeper.

I don’t doubt that. I was shooting my .30-06 Model 95 yesterday and the bottom notch is set right for 100 yards. Coincidence? Maybe.

[Sarge]

I've always set my lever actions up with flat top rear sights, zeroed to hit top dead center of the front bead, with the elevator on the bottom step. Zero distance is determined by the cartridge. Generally speaking, 125 yards for those using magnum revolver cartridges and 200 yards for bottlenecks like the 30-30 and 35 Remington.

I gotta say, those Bullseye sights really interest me.

Edited to add: playing with the 35's elevator steps, to roughly 330 yards

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/pleas ... t-30573536