348 Winchester is going to work

[TedH]

I'm beginning to prepare for a spring bear hunt in Manitoba next year. I'm planning on bringing my Browning 71. I have installed a Williams receiver sight and swapped out the front bead for a Williams Firesight which should greatly aid aiming on a black target in a potential low light situation.
I also picked up some 250 gr Barnes Original bullets. I'm finding load data to be pretty scarce. H380 data is out there, but I've seen more than one person state that RL19 is a very good option, but I've not been able to find data for that combination. Any good data you have would be appreciated.

[Sixgun]

Ted,
For over 40 years I used 4064 or 4895 and a 200 grain Hornady…..I believe it was 53 grains…not 100% on that. Some guys like 4350. There’s data out there…just go 1 or 2 grains below the max. People put too much emphasis on velocity. The 348 is a 150-200 yard gun max so more energy is only going to fly through the animal faster.

Don’t use a powder faster than 4064 as you can get an action lock up the same way a 33 Winchester will with too much 3031……


I have 3500 rds out of one 348 and it’s as tight as the day it was made.

Good luck——-006

[FLINT]

I was preparing to load for the 348 a year or so ago and read a ton of forum posts and H4350 seems to be a favorite. I now have brass, bullets, and powder. Still need primers........

[Drawdown]

Sure hope you good luck, hope to see a big bear and Mod 71 that took it! I've never touched a Mod 71 or 348, but any thread on them, I'm all over em, they're just most interesting rifle&cartridge ever made imo! I've loaded a lot for couple 30-06's and one thing from reading so much, is similarities in powders between the two. And I've long time settled on two for my 06's, 4064 & 4350. 4064 & 150gr Speer in my Tikka will literally drill one big cloverleaf. I like 4350 little better with 165 & 180gr. 4064 is great in my 30-30 also, the stuff is accurate from least to near max charge! I've seen plenty data in past of these two in 348's. But I've seen plenty versatility in powders used in 348 just like the 06. Good luck!

[Drawdown]

Took this from Dave Scovill special edition of rifle magazine

20240813_214830.jpg

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I also picked up some 250 gr Barnes Original bullets.

Midway has had those 250's on special for a while now. I've been trying to buy a box a week before they vanish for another 5 years ... or worse.

I've not loaded any 250's yet, just 200's (Hornady, gone) and 220's. I did acquire some of the 157's from Hammer to test out this Fall when it cools off down here.

H4350 is near RL-19 in burn rate, both a bit slower than H380 ... which is between RL-16 and RL-17. Any of those should work fine. Of course, you'll be paying the Alliant gold plated powder tax on 16, 17, or 19.

I hope you've got some Large Rifle primers lying about somewhere. Those things aren't easy to get these days either.

This is the Barnes load page for their 220's and 250's.

[RIHMFIRE]

I also picked up some 250 gr Barnes Original bullets.

Midway has had those 250's on special for a while now. I've been trying to buy a box a week before they vanish for another 5 years ... or worse.

I've not loaded any 250's yet, just 200's (Hornady, gone) and 220's. I did acquire some of the 157's from Hammer to test out this Fall when it cools off down here.

H4350 is near RL-19 in burn rate, both a bit slower than H380 ... which is between RL-16 and RL-17. Any of those should work fine. Of course, you'll be paying the Alliant gold plated powder tax on 16, 17, or 19.

I hope you've got some Large Rifle primers lying about somewhere. Those things aren't easy to get these days either.

This is the Barnes load page for their 220's and 250's.

When was the last time you shot that beauty!!!
I saw rifle primers at the deland gun show last weekend.

[TraderVic]

Ted, the Williams front "fire sights" are really nice, but are damaged easily (too easily).
I had one on my 30-30 CB (Williams FP rear aperture) and had to replace it due to being twisted a bit. Have no idea how it happened as I'm pretty careful about my iron sights.

[Bill in Oregon]

Ted, I assume of course you have seen the Barnes data.
https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-conten ... terWeb.pdf
The Lyman 51st only shows data for the 200:

[Bill in Oregon]

Here is Ken Waters' Pet Loads data dating to 1976.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

When was the last time you shot that beauty!!!
I saw rifle primers at the deland gun show last weekend.

I sold some large rifle primers to the Young's Enterprises guy last weekend. I think he already sold them off or will at the Orlando show.

I haven't been out in a while. I think if I'm going to experiment with loads I'll probably shoot one of the other ones ... maybe the Browning.

I'm going to try to hit that "new to me" range on SR 44 on the way to New Smyrna ... see what that's all about. They apparently have private bays you can rent. That would make it easier to just walk out and setup the chronograph, targets, etc.

What have you been up to? Skeet or Sporting Clays I assume.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

If you're set on Reloder 19, there's a guy online that is saying 59 grains with a 250 grain bullet. But when I check that in QuickLoad, it's right at the pressure limit (46.4kpsi) and is 106% case fill. I don't think I'd try that one. QL shows 54 grains to be 98% fill and a more reasonable 35.4kpsi. A 52 grain charge actually looks like a comfortable shooter giving less pressure (30% below Pmax) and 2100fps in the simulation.

When I see stuff like that online, I always do a sanity check in QL. It might be a perfectly fine load in his gun, but he's probably a younger fella with a fully intact shoulder ... for now. I'm not sure you'd need to run a 250 Barnes up past 2300fps anyway. I'm thinking 2100fps with that long heavy bullet is still going to scramble things up plenty. Probably an easier follow up shot as well if you need it.

[JFE]

I have a spreadsheet that someone put together with load data for the 348 gleaned from a number of sources.

If anyone is interested, PM your email address and I’ll send you a copy.

FWIW I use H4350 behind a 250gr Barnes. It’s accurate, pretty much fills the case and works well.

[Sixgun]

From Phil Sharpes book written right before the war.

[TedH]

If you're set on Reloder 19, there's a guy online that is saying 59 grains with a 250 grain bullet. But when I check that in QuickLoad, it's right at the pressure limit (46.4kpsi) and is 106% case fill. I don't think I'd try that one. QL shows 54 grains to be 98% fill and a more reasonable 35.4kpsi. A 52 grain charge actually looks like a comfortable shooter giving less pressure (30% below Pmax) and 2100fps in the simulation.

When I see stuff like that online, I always do a sanity check in QL. It might be a perfectly fine load in his gun, but he's probably a younger fella with a fully intact shoulder ... for now. I'm not sure you'd need to run a 250 Barnes up past 2300fps anyway. I'm thinking 2100fps with that long heavy bullet is still going to scramble things up plenty. Probably an easier follow up shot as well if you need it.

Thanks for the QL info. I actually have seen data from an older issue of Handloader magazine that shows data with RL19 up to 61.0 gr. for 2300 fps. I will be plenty satisfied with 2150-2200 fps. There are some other references I've found that tout RL19 as the best all around 348 powder with all bullet weights. That intrigued me, and the fact I have a good supply of it, and don't use it regularly in any other favorite rifle loads.

Thanks everyone for your input. This should be enough good information to get me there.

[RIHMFIRE]

When was the last time you shot that beauty!!!
I saw rifle primers at the deland gun show last weekend.

I sold some large rifle primers to the Young's Enterprises guy last weekend. I think he already sold them off or will at the Orlando show.

I haven't been out in a while. I think if I'm going to experiment with loads I'll probably shoot one of the other ones ... maybe the Browning.

I'm going to try to hit that "new to me" range on SR 44 on the way to New Smyrna ... see what that's all about. They apparently have private bays you can rent. That would make it easier to just walk out and setup the chronograph, targets, etc.

What have you been up to? Skeet or Sporting Clays I assume.

You guessed it! Almost every weekend I shoot skeet. I have not shot sporting clays or five stand in a long time. I need to fix that.
Bought a Remington 511 and 581. 22's as you probably know! Both need minor restoration.
Let me know what you think of the range on 44. Our skeet and trap club, is right next door to the east.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Thanks for the QL info. I actually have seen data from an older issue of Handloader magazine that shows data with RL19 up to 61.0 gr. for 2300 fps. I will be plenty satisfied with 2150-2200 fps. There are some other references I've found that tout RL19 as the best all around 348 powder with all bullet weights. That intrigued me, and the fact I have a good supply of it, and don't use it regularly in any other favorite rifle loads.

If I simulate with the 220 grain Barnes Original, then 59 grains is perfectly fine, even 61 grains of RL-19 is still fine. It's just the 250's that I show as excessive for those charges of RL-19.

I've got a stash of RL-19 myself. When it cools off, I may try some loads. I've used RL-17, but not 19. It just never occurred to me.

You know, when I look back over it, I had set the OAL to 2.795" for the QL sim. If I relax that out to say 2.850", then the 59 grain load with the 250's is ok ... stout, but OK. So you're OAL will matter quite a lot here. I think the limit on the 348 is 2.880" but I'm usually staying a bit back from the max OAL to ensure I don't get any feeding hangups. With the 450 Alaskan, 2.795" is about as far as I can go with the wider bullet in my 71.

Ok, I went and measure a factory Winchester 200 grain Silvertip and it's right at 2.790" ... probably why I have QL set to 2.795" for 348. If I recall correctly, my Browning 71 won't eat quite as long a round as my Winchesters. I don't remember if it was an action issue or a short throat with certain bullets. It's been a while. I need to get out to the range this Fall.

Still, you could load long if you want the max from RL-19. I'm sure the wounded bear won't mind pausing his charge while you finagle your 2.88" long follow-up cartridge through the action.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Bought a Remington 511 and 581. 22's as you probably know! Both need minor restoration.
Let me know what you think of the range on 44. Our skeet and trap club, is right next door to the east.

I've got my father's old 511 from when he was a boy. I learned to shoot on that rifle. Love that thing.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

This was bothering me so I reset and measured.

QL has a default case capacity of 75 grains of water for the 348. I grabbed a fired case and stuck it on the scale, then filled it up with distilled water. It's 81 grains ... spent Winchester brass.

When I use this capacity and load the 250 grain Barnes Original to 2.795", 59 grains of RL-19 is fine at 38.2kpsi and 2303fps in a 24" barrel. 61 grains is 42.2kpsi (getting up there but ok) and 2385fps. A 56 grain charge is a comfortable 33kpsi and 2180fps.

Brass was 2.259" ... a smidge over the trim to of 2.255".

[TedH]

This was bothering me so I reset and measured.

QL has a default case capacity of 75 grains of water for the 348. I grabbed a fired case and stuck it on the scale, then filled it up with distilled water. It's 81 grains ... spent Winchester brass.

When I use this capacity and load the 250 grain Barnes Original to 2.795", 59 grains of RL-19 is fine at 38.2kpsi and 2303fps in a 24" barrel. 61 grains is 42.2kpsi (getting up there but ok) and 2385fps. A 56 grain charge is a comfortable 33kpsi and 2180fps.

Brass was 2.259" ... a smidge over the trim to of 2.255".

Ah, that makes more sense then. Thanks for digging through that and finding that. I'll go ahead and load some up from about 56 to that 61.0 gr load and see what works best.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Let me know. I'm curios to see where the velocities land ... if you're chronographing them.