How About 1 Caliber and Done?

[AJMD429]

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There way the 'progressives' are taking us, we actually could well be back to the bare-bones if we don't regain a civil social structure.

The Democrats seem to be aiming for something like the Hunger Games, evidently oblivious to the concept that it is more likely to be like Mad Max.

Of course they I assume they will be insulated from it all, through their usual fraud and deception and violence.

[COSteve]

Hopefully, come November, the pendulum will swing and sanity will once again be the norm in the US . . . at least for 4 more years.

[Paladin]

I could stick with one probably .44 Mag or .45 Colt if I had to and still kill everything I hunt. I really like the fact I don't have to as the predator I worry about the most you can't get a license for and has no limitations or rules.
I would miss my .22s, pistols for play, and get more nervous without my .457 Wild West Co-Pilot.

[Griff]

Here's one of reasons I said .45... Although the below graphic might explain a little of it. Although the cartridge sez 45Auto, the same ballistics are available in the Cowboy45Special... of which my 1860 & 1873 rifles will hold 18; and at 15,445 psi, useable in my Colt SAAs. And in the 4-¾" bbl still generate 923 fps.

C45S Load.jpg

[Scott Tschirhart]

Very interesting Griff.

I have some of the Cowboy brass but I haven’t loaded any of it.

[Grizz]

speaking of 45s as one caliber or one cartridge possibilities ->
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Iver Johnson 1911A1 Carbine.jpg

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pistol caliber carbines are not new. these parts are available, and replicate actual combat variations of the 1911. There is a holster that holds the components in one place. It looks awkward, but my 7" barrel is not obnoxious or even visible when shooting it.
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Hi Point 45 carbine.jpg

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Ok Ok I know, it's ugly. So what? They match the cheap filter. They have outstanding reliability references. Made in USA. With good service reviews. What's not to like? Oh yeah, they're ugly.
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Ruger lc 45.jpg

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This is the opposite of ugly, and might be the best 45 ACP carbine ever made IDK. Anyone have one?
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My 1911 is set up for 45 Super, which is a +P+ type load, if such a thing exists. I got interested in this when I saw that the Underwood 255 Gr HC 45 Super round penetrates over 60 inches of calibrated gel from a 5 inch barrel. This suggests to me that a 45 ACP +P round from a 16 inch barrel could be up near the 45 Super or 45 Rowland velocities, which makes it a very interesting hunting and predator defense tool. Plus it ain't ugly. Plus folding stock. Plus plentiful magazines. Plus fits under a poncho. BUT IT'S SPENDY. But it's more useful IMO than any of the other 45 carbines I've looked into. It's light. It doesn't tie up a 1911 frame. It should be accurate, but IDK. I think a 45 ACP carbine would be an awesome hunting gun, at least for the ways I've hunted in the past. I might have to trade off a 45/70 to find out . . .

input welcome !
grizz

[AJMD429]

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I've had a Marlin Camp Carbine in 45 ACP and a Mech-Tech 'upper' in 45 ACP

The Marlin uses 1911 single stack mags and the Mech-Tech uses double-stack ones (ParaOrdnance or Rock Island).

Both are nice; the Marlin looked like a 10/22 other than the protruding magazine, and the Mech-Tech looks rather 'utilitarian'.

Now Ruger has their PC Carbine in 45 ACP finally; it will be interesting to see if they come out with a 'Charger' pistol version like they did with the 9mm and 22 LR. A take-down 'pistol' version with an added folding stock/brace, and an integrally suppressed barrel would be an IDEAL home defense item I think.

[JB]

Probably a 22LR. Cheap enough to plink with and capable (but not ideal) for hunting larger game or even self defense if needed.

[Streetstar]

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Ruger lc 45.jpg
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This is the opposite of ugly, and might be the best 45 ACP carbine ever made IDK.

--- As popular as the .45 ACP is, it still surprises me that there has been so little interest in a mass market .45ACP PCC over the years --- and no offense, --- that critter above is as offensive to the eyes as the Hi-Point

I like the Henry Homesteader - which resembles at a glance a re-birth of the Marlin Camp 9 and .45 . If Ruger could put their take down job in some wood furniture , it might look pretty nice --- not even good wood - just some utility grade birch would be fine for a modern re-interpretation of the M1 Carbine.

But their marketing team didnt ask me -- im so retro i still like the .40 S&W

[Streetstar]

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Now Ruger has their PC Carbine in 45 ACP finally;

I dont see it on their website yet --- the only thing they have is the goofy LC .45. I wish Ruger and S&W would stop trying to copy Kel Tec with their design strategies



My only experience with the PC's is actually owning one of the originals - non take down 9mm back in 1996 or 97 when they first came out -- had to use S&W aftermarket magazines to get anything other than 10 rounds --- moved it along pretty fast due to magazine issues as factory mags were limited to 10 rounds back then and 10 rounds in a 9mm carbine is a bit light for a plinker

[Grizz]

Now Ruger has their PC Carbine in 45 ACP finally;

I dont see it on their website yet --- the only thing they have is the goofy LC .45. I wish Ruger and S&W would stop trying to copy Kel Tec with their design strategies

My only experience with the PC's is actually owning one of the originals - non take down 9mm back in 1996 or 97 when they first came out -- had to use S&W aftermarket magazines to get anything other than 10 rounds --- moved it along pretty fast due to magazine issues as factory mags were limited to 10 rounds back then and 10 rounds in a 9mm carbine is a bit light for a plinker

Goofy LC, I like that. if I get one i r gonna call it Goofy !! :lol:
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50 rounds to go.jpeg

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speaking of kel-tec, here's one with 50 rounds of 9mm. what i like about goofy guns is that they can be very practical, very light, very reliable, plenty accurate, and easy to care for, and they don't get dented when they are bouncing around with the spare tire and tire chains . . . I have arms that I have to protect from me, but the folder doesn't care and doesn't tell ! :!: :lol:

grizz

[Grizz]

Probably a 22LR. Cheap enough to plink with and capable (but not ideal) for hunting larger game or even self defense if needed.

I get that. I have a one that will be around this camp a lot longer than I will

[Drawdown]

Caliber, hands down and no doubt 308! Up until about 15 years ago I'd said 22, cause most my life I lived and breathed 22 squirrel rifles. But now and where I'm at, my 30-30's & 30-06 are my beloved! And if spanning the globe, I'd pick up one the 300 mags? 300wm or 300 Weatherby mag or 300prc, which idk, but don't need em here. Ain't many places where a 30-06 is all you need!

[Streetstar]

Now Ruger has their PC Carbine in 45 ACP finally;

I dont see it on their website yet --- the only thing they have is the goofy LC .45. I wish Ruger and S&W would stop trying to copy Kel Tec with their design strategies

My only experience with the PC's is actually owning one of the originals - non take down 9mm back in 1996 or 97 when they first came out -- had to use S&W aftermarket magazines to get anything other than 10 rounds --- moved it along pretty fast due to magazine issues as factory mags were limited to 10 rounds back then and 10 rounds in a 9mm carbine is a bit light for a plinker

Goofy LC, I like that. if I get one i r gonna call it Goofy !!
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50 rounds to go.jpeg
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speaking of kel-tec, here's one with 50 rounds of 9mm. what i like about goofy guns is that they can be very practical, very light, very reliable, plenty accurate, and easy to care for, and they don't get dented when they are bouncing around with the spare tire and tire chains . . . I have arms that I have to protect from me, but the folder doesn't care and doesn't tell !

grizz

Guns to bounce around with the spares and chains (might be a subject for a different thread, but i think we have a similar theme going with our HD shotguns that a lot of us keep in the truck)

AR-15's, Mossbergs and Glocks --- ready to bounce around (preferably somewhat secured in some fashion though ) in your trunk for a decade --- and then ready to go if or when they are needed. You dont even have to unfold them or put 2 pieces together to use them.

Kel Tecs are fun if one subscribes to the notion of "60% of the time, it works all the time" mantra though






A quick search reveals that Goofy was a sportsman also and in 1952 there was a cartoon called - "Two Gun Goofy" !

[AJMD429]

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When it comes to 9mm ‘pistol caliber carbines’, I actually like my KelTec Sub-2000 better than the Ruger PC I had (original non-takedown version using Ruger P-85 magazines. I sold that pair of Rugers (PC9 and P85) and then got their takedown ‘Charger’ 9mm pistol version (and wound up SBR’ing it due to the ATF BS ). It is a fun but HEAVY item. As far as a vehicle/contingency gun though, I think a pair of 9mm pistols (Glock, Beretta, SIG, Taurus, Ruger, whatever) with lots of mags is more PRACTICAL than any ‘pistol caliber carbine’ I’ve seen yet, aside from maybe the lightweight Sub-2000.

My reasoning is that the only real advantage you get from the pistol caliber carbine, is something you can put to the shoulder, and if you’re going to do that and have anything compact, it’s going to have to fold in half or have a handgun length barrel, which means you are into SBR territory.

If it’s not going to be compact, then, why not get an AR or similar style firearm at fires on the actual rifle cartridge? The only other reason would be to have cartridge compatibility with a long gun and handgun, but if you have a long gun AND a handgun, then what’s the point in a pistol caliber carbine - because if you’ve got a handgun, you don’t need the compactness of the PCC and might want a more powerful rifle, and if you have a rifle, you’ve got some thing more powerful than the PCC or handgun so just use the more compact handgun vs a PCC.

…. this coming from someone who has shelled out for a fair number of PCC’s over the years then traded them off… but I still will defend their acquisition and ownership because they are FUN, and I keep looking for one that somehow can fill a niche that I can’t fill otherwise.

Although it would be more practical to get a threaded pistol and add a suppressor, I do think that if someone makes an intergrally-suppressed barrel for the Ruger takedown 9mm PC charger, at some point, getting that one, somehow legitimize the firearm in its SBR configuration.

Of course by then, they will probably have the same outfit in 45 ACP which I’ll want even more…

[COSteve]

If it’s not going to be compact, then, why not get an AR or similar style firearm at fires on the actual rifle cartridge? The only other reason would be to have cartridge compatibility with a long gun and handgun, but if you have a long gun AND a handgun, then what’s the point in a pistol caliber carbine - because if you’ve got a handgun, you don’t need the compactness of the PCC and might want a more powerful rifle, and if you have a rifle, you’ve got some thing more powerful than the PCC or handgun so just use the more compact handgun vs a PCC.

Doc, you're forgetting a real important issue between an AR carbine and a pistol cal carbine. I'm a bit surprised that you didn't think of it being a Dr and all. In my case it's either an original style Ruger Police Carbine in 40s&w which is my new preferred or my old standby, an M1 Carbine which I class as about a 30 cal pistol caliber carbine.

The issue is extreme muzzle blast and blinding flash if used in a HD mode inside at night without ear protection (eye protection doesn't help with the flash). My AR carbine is painfully loud and blindingly bright inside a building at night. Yep, the muzzle blast and flash is rather spectacular, especially compared to either my Ruger PC or my M1 Carbine.

Even with my hot 180grn Gold Dots 40s&w (twice the diameter and 3 times the weight of the AR's), the Ruger is more of a low flash and muted roar while the M1 Carbine loaded hot with 110grn Speer JSP (1.38 the diameter and 2 times the weight of the AR's) has a slightly bigger flash and more of a crack. Neither is blindingly bright like the AR's caliber and neither comes close to the blast of the AR either.

For me, the last thing I'd grab for defense is an AR but to each their own.

[Grizz]

THANKS SO MUCH for the conversation. I had written a detailed reply which disappeared on a windows ai reboot, and thus all are spared such much CO²

hat tip to Goofy, my old friend

grizz
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more goofy.jpg

[Streetstar]

Doc, you're forgetting a real important issue between an AR carbine and a pistol cal carbine. I'm a bit surprised that you didn't think of it being a Dr and all. In my case it's either an original style Ruger Police Carbine in 40s&w which is my new preferred or my old standby, an M1 Carbine which I class as about a 30 cal pistol caliber carbine.

Yes - sometimes we get wrapped up in hypotheticals, its important to remember just how obnoxious a 5.56 out of a 10 or 11" barrel actually is -- plus the fireball out the front the size of a pumpkin. I recall some trainer type recommending keeping a pair of noise cancelling earmuffs next to the bud and doing drills where grabbing the muffs is as mechanical as grabbing the flashlight and pistol

Those original PC carbines are tough to find -- with my recent re-infatuation with the 10mm pistols, i would love to have one of the PC40's
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I didnt think of the M1 Carbine at all when i pondered .308 as a single caliber (a'la the original context of this thread ) - but that would fit with the .308 bore diameter criteria as well --- AMT (i think it was AMT ) also made an odd looking 1911'esque pistol chambered in .30 carbine if one wanted an extremely loud nightstand piece.

[Streetstar]

THANKS SO MUCH for the conversation.

Been down with some kind of virus for a week and a half ---

i'm just silly for good internet conversation right now when i can stay awake


Its expensive too -- just ordered up a bunch of '00 Buck at a bargain price --- although i like the AR's and all that business, i hadnt paid much attention to this outfit until recently as i had erroneously thought they just sold a bunch of junk $300 AR rifle kits but they do a "daily deals" thing that is chock full of all kinds of goodies (mostly more junk $300 AR stuff admittedly, but if you wade through some of it you can occasionally find some gems)

https://palmettostatearmory.com/winches ... b1200.html

[Grizz]

THANKS SO MUCH for the conversation.

Been down with some kind of virus for a week and a half ---

i'm just silly for good internet conversation right now when i can stay awake


Its expensive too -- just ordered up a bunch of '00 Buck at a bargain price --- although i like the AR's and all that business, i hadnt paid much attention to this outfit until recently as i had erroneously thought they just sold a bunch of junk $300 AR rifle kits but they do a "daily deals" thing that is chock full of all kinds of goodies (mostly more junk $300 AR stuff admittedly, but if you wade through some of it you can occasionally find some gems)

https://palmettostatearmory.com/winches ... b1200.html

dang Doug, hope you recover soon.

great price on the ammo. I have a mold for #1 Buck that I will load in my 20, and a .69 RB to load in 12Ga hulls.

I bought some Underwood 45 Super ammo from midway. Got enough that they paid the shipping, so I should be set for a while. I need to do some penetration comparisons and evaluate the velocity difference between the 5" and 7" barrel. If I go to Tx this year I'm taking the 45 for hogs. Find out useful stuff that way. Son has 300 blk in case i can't hit anything with the pistol. LOL. After that I'll be reloading the ammo for the 1911. It handles ball ammo fine with the 24# spring, and is accurate with the 7" barrel, so lots to learn as I get into it.