Gorgeous lever gun, but why?

[Bill in Oregon]

Pedersoli makes some really lovely firearms with excellent barrels. But their reasoning can be questionable. A beefy 8 1/2-pound 1886, but in .30 WCF? (We won't go into that tang safety business.)

https://landing.davide-pedersoli.com/en ... ne+Classic

[RIHMFIRE]

nice looking shooter....but
3030 in an 86 / 71 design???
not a thumper type caliber....

[Scott Tschirhart]

Seems odd. Maybe they are looking at the case stretching issues and trying to get In front of that?

I’m kidding. I have no idea and I was fascinated to read about the .30-30 case experiments.

[.45colt]

I have had an 86/71 45-70 since around 2012. For Me it is an excellent rifle. No safety of any kind, a 4lb trigger that is crisp ,good size and weight for a 45-70. If I was fifty years younger I'd carry it all day but no more. one in 30-30 makes no sense to Me at all. I won't touch anything with a tang safety. But today more and more hunters drive the 4 wheeler to the enclosed elevated stand and there is little walking involved.

[junkbug]

My guess is they are trying to get new buyers for an existing design. The 45-70 has been out there for a good while.
What other lever gun cartridges? The .348 Winchester is the natural choice, but it is basically defunct. When has anyone even made brass for the .348? The 38/55 comes to mind, that can easily follow the .30-30.

Basically the .30-30 is the last traditional lever gun cartridge out there that can easily be bought today. .45-70 and .30-30, everything else is hardly in production.

This is not counting the short rifle cartridges of course, but they are made in different rifles.

[TraderVic]

An 86/71 in 30-30 is their answer, but what's the question

[marlinman93]

Probably aimed at buyers who want an 1886, but don't reload. I know guys who wont reload, or buy any gun that requires them to start. Goofy.

[KWK]

I don't see anything "Classic" about an '86 in 30-30 with a side mount scope!

I can understand wanting to offer a lighter recoiling rifle in a common cartridge such as the 30 WCF, but Pedersoli makes a straight stock '86, so why didn't they pattern their "Classic" after the 33 WCF Extra Light but chambered in the 30 WCF?

I've wondered about an '86 in 257 Roberts. They'd be limited to the 117 RN loads, but it would be unique.

I see they advertise a 7.1 lb 45-70 Extra Light. That could be fun with light loads, but I prefer the straight stock. Oh well, the only Pedersoli I ever bought (mail order, at my son's request) was a piece of garbage, but that was a SxS shotgun which we found out Pedersoli had sourced from Turkey. I've never tried their Italian made guns. I've had singularly bad luck with Uberti.

[EG73]

Obviously built on the larger rifle platform to tame down that infamously fierce recoil the .30-30 produces.

[buckeyeshooter]

wrong chambering. my guess is that 30-30 is the best selling lever rifle chambering (non handgun round) so they picked it. I would chamber it in .348, 45-90, 450 Alaskan, 50 Alaskan and 50-110.

[Pisgah]

Heavy for a .30-30? Maybe. Virtually immortal in that chambering? Yep...

[AJMD429]

Reminds me of the Ruger No1's in things like 218 Bee...or 357 Mag…

Cool cartridges, cool gun, but odd combinations ...

[Shrapnel]

This is what you get when a vacuum salesman designs a gun...

[kaschi]

Looking at some Pedersoli leverguns on their website, it seems that the tang safety is not present on all models. As much as I hate tang safeties like probably most traditionalists, at least Pedersoli left the half cock in the mechanism and does not employ the rebounding hammer as found on new Winchesters made by Miroku. That' a big plus because only the tang safety would have to be removed, if one chose to do so, and the lockwork will function like an original 1886. If you want to do that with a Japchester, a new old stock Browning hammer and trigger will have to be searched for and that's not an easy find these days.

The 444 Marlin wasn't mentioned in this thread, but being fond of the 86 action in general, I'd love to try one of them out in the 444.

[EG73]

Can’t just have a halfcock notch cut?

[AJMD429]

.
Yes I do like the 444 Marlin. A great cartridge but every time someone mentions it someone else says “yeah but 45-70’s better…” 45 Colt vs 44 Mag, 30-06 vs 308, 35 Rem vs 30-30…. Whatever…

[Bill in Oregon]

Doc, wait, the .30-06 IS better than the .308.

[kaschi]

The debate about which cartridge is better than another reminds me of the ongoing articles in Guns & Ammo and Shooting Times from the 70s and 80s when one of the cover feature articles always seemed to be "What's better for deer: 270 or 30-06?" And then at the end of the article, the last line would be something like: "You be the judge!" Kinda funny because the unsuspecting nimrods that read the articles hoping for some help from the gun gods who penned the publications was still stuck in the dilemma of deciding which caliber to choose.

[Griff]

This is what you get when a vacuum salesman designs a gun...

I must admit that when I think of the .30-30, I picture the Winchester 94, the new Uberti is a right handsome piece. And lacks the tang safety.

[Grizz]

The debate about which cartridge is better than another reminds me of the ongoing articles in Guns & Ammo and Shooting Times from the 70s and 80s when one of the cover feature articles always seemed to be "What's better for deer: 270 or 30-06?" And then at the end of the article, the last line would be something like: "You be the judge!" Kinda funny because the unsuspecting nimrods that read the articles hoping for some help from the gun gods who penned the publications was still stuck in the dilemma of deciding which caliber to choose.

this is spot On . . . here's a clue about ballistics, if you fire up a tko calculator and enter only the bullet weight and velocity, but not the caliber, you get the ballistics for that load minus the tko portion. the energy of a 300 grain bullet from a 454 is exactly the same as the energy from a 300 grain bullet from a 300 win mag, at the same velocity, and a 300 grain bullet from a .22, NOT THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE. BUT it makes the point.

bullet diameter does affect the down range operation of the load, and bullet construction does affect the forensic operation, and the rate the bullet slows down.

BALLISTICS_the impossible load.jpg

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notice that all the numbers are the same except the tko which is trying to say what the effect of that much momentum on that frontal area is going to be.....

this is best illustrated by comparing a 300 Win Mag to a 30-30. given the same weight bullet at the same muzzle velocity you get the same energy number, which is what happens to that 300 Win out yonder somewhere when it slows down to the 30-30 MV.

I know most everyone around here knows this way better than I do, but I see a lot of ballistic tables that compare various calibers, say for deer rifles, and they have different bullet weights that they are comparing from different caliber firearms. That's phoney baloney stuff right there, if I want to know the difference between a 30-30 load and a 35 Rem load. It's not the caliber, it's the weight and velocity that matter.

When I'm interested in the 45 ACP 255 Gr load V the colt 45, or the 454 Casull, or a Ruger 480, the only variable is velocity, which is pressure. It's the reality of comparing 30-30 to 308 to 30-06 to 300 win mag. All 30 cal.

Is the 35 Rem a better deer gun than a 30 Win? That depends. I gave my son one of each, it's his problem now. LOL

[Grizz]

This is what you get when a vacuum salesman designs a gun...

I must admit that when I think of the .30-30, I picture the Winchester 94, the new Uberti is a right handsome piece. And lacks the tang safety.

That's a Beauty Griff. I would not be able to make myself stick that in the skiff for an evening run around the island, prospecting for meat....

My 357 94AE trapper has the hated safety, and the hated rebounding hammer, but the bullets have gone where they're supposed to be when I open my eyes . . . that gun can ride in the skiff all day, and make meat.

grizz

[Grizz]

The debate about which cartridge is better than another reminds me of the ongoing articles in Guns & Ammo and Shooting Times from the 70s and 80s when one of the cover feature articles always seemed to be "What's better for deer: 270 or 30-06?" And then at the end of the article, the last line would be something like: "You be the judge!" Kinda funny because the unsuspecting nimrods that read the articles hoping for some help from the gun gods who penned the publications was still stuck in the dilemma of deciding which caliber to choose.

this is spot On . . . here's a clue about ballistics, if you fire up a tko calculator and enter only the bullet weight and velocity, but not the caliber, you get the ballistics for that load minus the tko portion. the energy of a 300 grain bullet from a 454 is exactly the same as the energy from a 300 grain bullet from a 300 win mag, at the same velocity, and a 300 grain bullet from a .22, NOT THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE. BUT it makes the point.

bullet diameter does affect the down range operation of the load, and bullet construction does affect the forensic operation, and the rate the bullet slows down.

BALLISTICS_the impossible load.jpg
.
notice that all the numbers are the same except the tko which is trying to say what the effect of that much momentum on that frontal area is going to be.....

this is best illustrated by comparing a 300 Win Mag to a 30-30. given the same weight bullet at the same muzzle velocity you get the same energy number, which is what happens to that 300 Win out yonder somewhere when it slows down to the 30-30 MV.

I know most everyone around here knows this way better than I do, but I see a lot of ballistic tables that compare various calibers, say for deer rifles, and they have different bullet weights that they are comparing from different caliber firearms. That's phoney baloney stuff right there, if I want to know the difference between a 30-30 load and a 35 Rem load. It's not the caliber, it's the weight and velocity that matter.

When I'm interested in the 45 ACP 255 Gr load V the colt 45, or the 454 Casull, or a Ruger 480, the only variable is velocity, which is pressure. It's the reality of comparing 30-30 to 308 to 30-06 to 300 win mag. All 30 cal.

Is the 35 Rem a better deer gun than a 30 Win? That depends. I gave my son one of each, it's his problem now. LOL

This video illustrates the idea. I am considering converting my XD45 to 460Rowland, and here's why -->
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbmSJg1WhqY
.
thanks for watching

[Shrapnel]

This is what you get when a vacuum salesman designs a gun...

I must admit that when I think of the .30-30, I picture the Winchester 94, the new Uberti is a right handsome piece. And lacks the tang safety.

Look at the front barrel band and front sight. Out of proportion and the case color is hideous. I am more a traditionalist and if you are going to copy something don’t demean it. Browning made fabulous copies, although they were made by Miroku as were the later Winchesters, but the Browning guns were superior to the Winchesters by a considerable margin.

I guess I don’t get the 30-30 in an 1886 either…

[kaschi]

Yes, there are a couple of different things Uberti really could have/should have with this carbine (depending on if they wanted a SRC or an Eastern Carbine). Shrapnel pointed out the barrel band location and he's exactly right. If they had wanted the traditional SRC look, they should have moved the front barrel band up to just behind the front sight, added a ladder sight, added a saddle ring, got rid of the checkering on the wood, got rid of the checkering and it would have been more than pleasing to the eye. And the addition of the 25-35 chambering would have been more than pleasing to the heart!

[kaschi]

^^^ Meant to add "got rid of the color case hardening" to my previous post.^^^