OT - How many years does it take to build a refinery?

[Tycer]

How many years does it take to build a refinery?

5 years? 10? 2?

Begin with the search for real estate, follow with the red tape, EPA......, follow with the building of the infrastructure of getting the oil there, building the buildings, to shipping the first gallon of fuel.

I have no idea and am truly curious. If we were to begin uncapping existing fields, how soon could I buy a gallon of heating oil?

[rjohns94]

Excellent question. I imagine 10-15 years but I have no idea

[Hillbilly]

The last town I lived in didnt build a refinery... coal fired power plant.

From Public notice to perimits etc they are about 2 years into the the deal. The land was bought before the Public notice etc. I figure they will fire boilers in about 3 years...not a big plant and the railroad is really close and the roads are there already.

The question depends on how motivated your politicos are about having the plant.
I have seen a few "done deals" that were over way before public hearings commenced.

Jeff

[Andrew]

It's like anything else I suppose, only limited by budgets and resources.

Buildings can go up quite quickly but wire, pipe and machinary can take a very long time to assemble.

I'd say anything from 3-7 years.

[adirondakjack]

I have no real idea, but as a comparison, Walmart has been trying to build a Supercenter near me for at least five years, have not turned over the first shovel of dirt yet. They're playing permit games and public hearings and challenges (spuriously) based on environmental grounds (the real deal is some folks simply don't want it in their backyard).

Walmart is every bit as big and saavy as Exxon. Can ya imagine what kinda stuff to build a refinery?

Hint: Hess wanted to build one in NJ once (30+ years ago) and figured out real soon it was easier, cheaper and a lot less restrictive to build it in the USVI (where every bit of it had to be shipped or flown in) and ship the product (gasoline) from there to NJ.

[Hobie]

If it were a priority we could build one faster than we built the atomic bomb and we did that in about 4 years. The thing is, if we want to do it now, we can, but we don't. That's the collective "we". I'm afraid that more and more you and I aren't part of "we". IOW you and I aren't in "U.S.".

[Ysabel Kid]

I think the biggest factor is the red tape and the NIMBY attitude almost everywhere ("not in my back yard"). If we had the collective courage as a society to do what it took to become truly energy independent, as Andrew and Hobie note, building the things would be relatively fast. Once all the environmental wackos and ACLU types sue though, everything grinds to a halt.

It is now, sadly, "us" versus "they" - the latter being the ignorant, uneducated, economically- and historically-illiterate souls that have bought into the left's lies, been educated by them, and depend on them for welfare...

[Blaine]

By Gar, if "they" can take some old lady's land for a freeway, they can tell the greeners to go to hell.......

[SAF]

Unfortunately, thanks to the High preist of Global Warning, Al Gore ( a noted above average energy user), and his like-thinking congregation, we have moved beyond NIMBY. We are now in a new attitude, BANANA!

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything!

I was actually set to do preliminary work for an electric transmission line starting in Garden City, Kansas and spider-webbing across eastern Colorado to provide power from a yet unbuilt coal fired power plant in Garden City. The State of Kansas nixed the permitting for the power plant due to green-house gas emissions.

How long will take to build a refinery. Only when the American people are tired of this and actually put the screws to our esteemed city,county,state and federal elected officals.

[Old Time Hunter]

I believe the Army Corp of Engineers built one in New Zealand during WWII, up and running in 45 days!

[Grizz]

I believe the Army Corp of Engineers built one in New Zealand during WWII, up and running in 45 days!

Those WERE the good old days...

[FWiedner]

I believe the Army Corp of Engineers built one in New Zealand during WWII, up and running in 45 days!

These are the same guys that built the river levies in New Orleans and Cedar Rapids, right?

[Peter M. Eick]

Here in the states? Years, 10 is probably close just to get the construction completed. If I were to guess I would say 15 years total.

Working for a major oil company I have heard that the big problem is steel. You need a lot of very custom steel pipes and sheets and things like that. And the steel cannot be "ming's extra especial good scrap steel". It needs to be high precision stuff of very high quality. Folks seem to take it personal like when your refinery's get upset and have some bad gas.

When we drill some of our deep wells we have to get the steel drilling pipe made up a year before in germany. They only make one run a year so if you miss it, wait a year.

Now skipping the steel problem. You got to think about the design, permitting, legal challenges, lawsuits, environmental challenges, NEPA and EIS statements etc.

My gut reaction is that we will never build another one here in the states. That is a fools errand if I ever heard of it. Now Cuba, Bahamas, or the like maybe. Dubai, Saudi, or even Iran? That makes a lot of sense. Iran imports all of their gas to speak of. It would probably be a good investment to build on there before here. Permitting would be easy but you still have to fight the steel problem.

[AJMD429]

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything!

Of course UNLESS it only takes the property of redneck, gun-owning, religious, home-schooling, subsistence-farming individuals and hands it over to political cronies, construction firms, and investors, in the name of "improving the economy!"

The hypocrisy of the Algorites sure is astounding!

[Rusty]

If someone was really committed
to getting it done I bet it could happen in about three years.

There was an incident that happened on I-75 near Bradenton, Fla about a month ago. A loaded tanker went over the side of the bridge onto another road and exploded burning the bridge beyond use. The contractor the state hired got the bridge back up and running in just about a month. That was less than the two months the state had originally predicted.

[bj94]

I think there are plenty of places where NIMBY would not be a problem. I've been around lots of refineries and they are not really that objectionable to the residents, in fact around small towns they would welcome the additional jobs.

My guess would be about 3-4 years for design and construction, untold lengths of time to get permits/approvals/environmental impact studies done. Now if Congress said "we're building it so get out of the way!", then some of the approvals could be expedited.

[505stevec]

At the rate we are going I would say definately positively as soon as the Liberals are kicked the hell out of office and people wake up and smell the coffee. By then though we will be paying $10 a gallon. I heard on Sean Hanedy (spelling?) two Democtrat congress persons recomending the government take over oil production. It seems to me they need to get the heck out of the way and let free market take over.

[Andrew]

You need a lot of very custom steel pipes and sheets and things like that. And the steel cannot be "ming's extra especial good scrap steel". It needs to be high precision stuff of very high quality. Folks seem to take it personal like when your refinery's get upset and have some bad gas.

Is there a lot of clad-steel in those plants?

Kaboom!!

[Ysabel Kid]

At the rate we are going I would say definately positively as soon as the Liberals are kicked the hell out of office and people wake up and smell the coffee. By then though we will be paying $10 a gallon. I heard on Sean Hanedy (spelling?) two Democtrat congress persons recomending the government take over oil production. It seems to me they need to get the heck out of the way and let free market take over.

If McCain and the GOP leadership had half a brain cell between them they would start non-stop hammering the Dem's day and night between now and the election on the topic of energy independence. Show the American public, relentlessly, how the Dem's alliance with the environmentalists have brought about this situation - and not helped the environment one wit. Put forth bold proposals that first and foremost tap into our current domestic fossil fuel sources, while working hard to bring up functional alternative energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, hydro-electric), develop new alternative energy sources, and scrap horrible ideas that don't work (such as ethanol). LEAD for once for God's sake! (sorry about the language). If they don't let the sniveling cowards off the hook between now and then, and make every vote in Congress a referendum on energy, we'll win, the country will win, and the left will lose big time. It's just going to take a "big pair", and I don't thing the leadership of the GOP - especially McCain - have any!!!

[scr83jp]

How many years does it take to build a refinery?

5 years? 10? 2?

Begin with the search for real estate, follow with the red tape, EPA......, follow with the building of the infrastructure of getting the oil there, building the buildings, to shipping the first gallon of fuel.

I have no idea and am truly curious. If we were to begin uncapping existing fields, how soon could I buy a gallon of heating oil?

In 1973 when opec spiked the price of oil we had Ronnie Reagan for Commander in Chief & he ordered oil exploration nationwide & production increased causing opec to backoff.Wells in this country were capped off and left.I met a Marathon Supervisor who was employed in Colorado/Wyoming and received notice to stop production,cap wells and he'd continue working but of course the company lied & layed him off.He said those wells were not tapped out.We have the oil but too many tree hugger senators and congressmen who won't approve continental shelf or alaskan drilling for freedom from opec,guess they want this great nation to collapse.

[claybob86]

How many years does it take to build a refinery?

5 years? 10? 2?

Begin with the search for real estate, follow with the red tape, EPA......, follow with the building of the infrastructure of getting the oil there, building the buildings, to shipping the first gallon of fuel.

I have no idea and am truly curious. If we were to begin uncapping existing fields, how soon could I buy a gallon of heating oil?

In 1973 when opec spiked the price of oil we had Ronnie Reagan for Commander in Chief & he ordered oil exploration nationwide & production increased causing opec to backoff.Wells in this country were capped off and left.I met a Marathon Supervisor who was employed in Colorado/Wyoming and received notice to stop production,cap wells and he'd continue working but of course the company lied & layed him off.He said those wells were not tapped out.We have the oil but too many tree hugger senators and congressmen who won't approve continental shelf or alaskan drilling for freedom from opec,guess they want this great nation to collapse.

Might turn out to be a good long term strategy: Suck the A-rabs dry, then we have our own untapped resources to keep going while those sickos drift back into the stone age where they belong.

[Slick]

My guess is 32+ years!!! (based on the fact that NO new refinery has been successfully built since 1976)->

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6019739/

Did I win the quart of gas for my correct answer?

[CJM]

They are finding out in South Dakota where Hyperion is trying to build a refinery in Union County. So far its two years and running, they recently won the local election so now the court battles start.

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/article ... 7ce0af.txt

[pdawg.shooter]

Unfortunately, thanks to the High preist of Global Warning, Al Gore ( a noted above average energy user), and his like-thinking congregation, we have moved beyond NIMBY. We are now in a new attitude, BANANA!

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything!

I was actually set to do preliminary work for an electric transmission line starting in Garden City, Kansas and spider-webbing across eastern Colorado to provide power from a yet unbuilt coal fired power plant in Garden City. The State of Kansas nixed the permitting for the power plant due to green-house gas emissions.

How long will take to build a refinery. Only when the American people are tired of this and actually put the screws to our esteemed city,county,state and federal elected officals.

I live near a wind farm that was set to expand but was put on hold because they were intending to use those transmission lines. Wind IS green. Now its not happening because one misguided (read stupid) appointee nixed it.What happened to America?

[Mokwaw]

Today I would guess 5-10 yrs from start to finish. Here locally an ethanol refinery ( considerably smaller than petro refinery) has been in the works for 2 yrs. and they have not yet turned the first shovel of dirt. The site is already an industrial zoned area with bulk fuel and gasoline tanks, a propane cavern, and a small "refinery" which recracks transmix back to fuel and gas and bulk ammonia storage tanks. The problems are coming from the NIMBY, and GREENIES trying to block it.

When I worked construction in the pipefitters trade back in the 70's, I worked at an expansion of the army ammunition plant in Newport, In.. I worked at that project for 3 yrs. and the work had started about 2 yrs before that, 5 yrs to build boiler house, labs, and other buildings that I wasn't involved in. This was on property already owned by the government and they probably didn't need to get permits. I think a refinery would take at least as long.

[Old Time Hunter]

How many years does it take to build a refinery?

5 years? 10? 2?

Begin with the search for real estate, follow with the red tape, EPA......, follow with the building of the infrastructure of getting the oil there, building the buildings, to shipping the first gallon of fuel.

I have no idea and am truly curious. If we were to begin uncapping existing fields, how soon could I buy a gallon of heating oil?

In 1973 when opec spiked the price of oil we had Ronnie Reagan for Commander in Chief & he ordered oil exploration nationwide & production increased causing opec to backoff.Wells in this country were capped off and left.I met a Marathon Supervisor who was employed in Colorado/Wyoming and received notice to stop production,cap wells and he'd continue working but of course the company lied & layed him off.He said those wells were not tapped out.We have the oil but too many tree hugger senators and congressmen who won't approve continental shelf or alaskan drilling for freedom from opec,guess they want this great nation to collapse.

Ronald Reagan was still an actor in 1973...do you mean 1983?

[Grizz]

If McCain and the GOP leadership had half a brain cell between them they would start non-stop hammering the Dem's day and night between now and the election on the topic of energy independence. Show the American public, relentlessly, how the Dem's alliance with the environmentalists have brought about this situation

You're right but that's a big IF.

The hypocricy of the crats is breathtaking.
Who is it that castigates 'big business' for
exporting jobs overseas?

Who screams about OUTSOURCING?

Yet it is the crats who claim that we
HAVE TO OUTSOURCE OUR ENERGY SOURCES
and we HAVE TO OUTSOURCE all those jobs.
High paying jobs. Massive outsourcing to make
America poor. Now you know why our gas costs
so much. The crats outsourced it.

What a bunch of hypocrites.

Anyone think McCain is smart enough to hammer this?
I think this is the game winning gambit.
UNLOCK AMERICA FIRST