410 too little for any game you say?

[GunnyMack]

I loaded 18gr of Longshot behind the BP Light game slug, a (.38 round ball on top of a carrier wad) this is a published load and the it claims 2000+ fps.
Figured 30 steps was a good distance to try em on steel gong.

They shoot a bit high but wow was I surprised, look at the chain!

20240204_090633.jpg

20240204_090628.jpg

I would shoot a deer with this and not think twice!

[Bill in Oregon]

I'm impressed, too. A slug load like this and TSS for turkeys and there isn't a whole lot that a .410 can't get done.

[GunnyMack]

Yeah Bill next I gotta try out the little Thug slug!

[GunnyMack]

CORRECTION- 18gr of Longshot behind the carrier and 85 gr RB is 2335fps. Certainly faster than OO or OOO and we all know buckshot works .

[horsesoldier03]

No doubt it would handle a lot of things!

[Scott Tschirhart]

If you have a single shot .410 you can often drop a .45 Colt cartridge in the chamber and shoot it.

[GunnyMack]

I dont load for the 45 Colt...
But I can get 2 .430 round balls into a 28ga wad- gotta try that next !!

[Grizz]

I dont load for the 45 Colt...
But I can get 2 .430 round balls into a 28ga wad- gotta try that next !!

Oh for Pete's sake, I've been downsizing to 20 and this pops up! [ i don't know Pete ]
.

[gamekeeper]

The humble .410 is an extremely useful and versatile little weapon.....

[GunnyMack]

Stay with your 20 , then get a 410 !

Yes GK the lowly 410 is like Rodney Dangerfield- doesn't get any respect.

The 410 1/5 oz foster slug was magic for feral felines. I've used many 1/2 oz loads for lots of birds, skeet and yes I used to shoot 3" #5s for puddle ducks with great results.

[jeepnik]

Been carrying a Mossberg .410 as “ The Perfect Jeep Gun” since my AR-7 seemed a bit small for some years now. Short of bears I think it would handle the functions of a “survival” long gun very well.

I liked it so well I converted a 20ga Franchi 48 into “The Perfect Pickup Gun”. Some might say a 12 would be better but my wife might need it as well. At 4’ 10” she doesn’t like the recoil.

[Rockrat]

Grandad used to use a Win. mod. 42 for quail hunting when, he said, the 12ga was getting too easy. He also used to shoot crows out of his pecan tree with it and that durn tree had to be 150 ft tall, using 3" #4 shot. Still have a box or two of that stuff, has to be around 60 years old.

[.45colt]

Gunny; I have always loved the small gauge guns since I was a Kid. I took my Mossberg 500 I bought years ago deer hunting . I had the choke opened to skeet and it shoots slugs very well. I killed one Whitetail with it hunting on the edge of heavy second growth jungle .It was raining. It came running by at about 20 yards and I gave it two quick shots. There was No indication that I hit it. no hair, blood or body language at all. I was of course pretty upset. It made it about three hundred yards into a briar tangle . It took a long, long time to find it. It was so close I didn't think I could have missed it. I really think it needed an expanding slug of some kind to do more damage. For Me no more large critters with the .410.

[KWK]

I've used many 1/2 oz loads for lots of birds, skeet...

My son some times uses his Henry 410 levergun at skeet. He bests a surprising number of guys shooting 12 ga o/u.

[GunnyMack]

Gunny; I have always loved the small gauge guns since I was a Kid. I took my Mossberg 500 I bought years ago deer hunting . I had the choke opened to skeet and it shoots slugs very well. I killed one Whitetail with it hunting on the edge of heavy second growth jungle .It was raining. It came running by at about 20 yards and I gave it two quick shots. There was No indication that I hit it. no hair, blood or body language at all. I was of course pretty upset. It made it about three hundred yards into a briar tangle . It took a long, long time to find it. It was so close I didn't think I could have missed it. I really think it needed an expanding slug of some kind to do more damage. For Me no more large critters with the .410.

I agree, I wouldn't use the factory loaded slugs but I'd be real tempted to try the Thug Slug from BP with a healthy dose of lilgun or 800x. The Thug is a flat nose hollow point. However, the smaller gauges are not legal for deer here so unless I break the law I won't get a chance to try it myself.

[JimT]

I shot .44-40's out of my 410 when I was a kid. Made a really neat slug load.

EDIT: I also shot .30-30's. Pointed straight up the bullet would go about 15 feet or so. Big boom. If the brass didn't split I reloaded them with shot.

[jeepnik]

There are a few slug loads for personal defense. Not sure how they would work on deer sized critters. I can say a good old fashioned slug will do pretty severe damage to jacks.

[Bill in Oregon]

Will, do you have IC/Cyl chokes available for your CZ for slug work?

[JDL]

I was in Bass Pro Friday and thought I'd pick up a box of .410's only to find there was not a box to be had. Plenty of 28 on up though.

[AmBraCol]

When I was a kid growing up in the Amazon Basin, the "36" (as they called the 410 there) was the most common cartridge firing shotgun. They used it for all amazonian game, from dove to tapir and jaguar. One fellow I knew carried a 44-40 factory round that he intended to use if he ever had a shot at a puma or jaguar, but mostly they used full brass shells, a 38 spl case of FFFg black powder, a jute fiber wad, 3T or other shot (usually only one layer, not a real shot column) and another jute fiber wad to hold it in place. This was lit off by a CBC (now Magtech) berdan primer. It was only effective at close range, that over shot jute fiber wad would really blow any semblance of a "pattern" out of the water. But they decimated and virtually eradicated the game wherever they went with their "inadequate" 410's. 20 gauge was the pistolero's gun. Only the rich landowners would have a 12 bore. There were a smattering of other gauges in use, from the 9mm up to 12 with 32 and 24 being found, the 28 a bit more common, 16 gauge I only saw brass for sale, never a gun. I learned to reload with a single shot Boito in 32 gauge. Very simple process when using berdan primers. Flip the old primer out with the tip of a knife blade. Tap a new primer into place with the flat of the blade. Place the shell over a hole that won't allow for the primer to be compressed between the anvil and anything below the primer. Dump in the powder. Shove in the wad and tamp it well with a dowel. Dump in the shot (I liked to nest three or four layers of 3T shot) and then seat the over shot wad. I learned to use shredded paper for the over shot wad as it would break up on leaving the barrel and would allow the shot to pass through with a much better pattern.

Funny how they never seemed to obsess about the lack of power of their guns, they just went out and killed things. Having access to Outdoor Life and other information and stimulation of thought lead yours truly to try to improve on things, which lead to the improved (over what others in the are were doing) over shot wad and eventually the use of Tupán "white powder", using the 24 gauge measure in the 32 gauge I was shooting. That load would make a believer out of you! Some day I need to get my hands on some full brass shells and load some up for the little Boito 410 I picked up a few years ago.

[GunnyMack]

Bill my CZ is IC and mod. I'd shoot the Thug in the right and the LGS or buckshot in the left.

[buckeyeshooter]

I bought a JM Marlin XLR .410 lever action. Excited to try it out I bought a box of 6's, 7.5's and 8's. Went to my range and put up an outers life sized squirrel target and started checking the pattern. It was the worst I ever saw! The BEST group was 4 pellets of 7.5's on the squirrel at 20 yards. Mostly it was 1 or 2 pellets at 20 yards. Slugs were a bit better with a 3 inch group at 40 yards.
The worst part was the gun was very heavy. My friends winchester 9410 packer has screw in chokes and is light and handles well.
I contemplated sending it to Doug Turnbull to become an XLR 50 Alaskan. But, I relented and sold it off at a large profit as it was a Davidson's 1 of 400 production.

So yeah. in my book .410 is useless. On the other side of the coin, My father sold a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge to my cousin on a day he couldn't hit anything with it. I walked out in the yard with it and saw a squirrel in the top of a walnut across the creek 60 yards away. Boom, squirrel falling dead. Squirrel and gravy for dinner. I traded him a Henry 22 lever action (new) for it. We were both happy. I was even more happy to get rid of that .410!!

[GunnyMack]

I bought a JM Marlin XLR .410 lever action. Excited to try it out I bought a box of 6's, 7.5's and 8's. Went to my range and put up an outers life sized squirrel target and started checking the pattern. It was the worst I ever saw! The BEST group was 4 pellets of 7.5's on the squirrel at 20 yards. Mostly it was 1 or 2 pellets at 20 yards. Slugs were a bit better with a 3 inch group at 40 yards.
The worst part was the gun was very heavy. My friends winchester 9410 packer has screw in chokes and is light and handles well.
I contemplated sending it to Doug Turnbull to become an XLR 50 Alaskan. But, I relented and sold it off at a large profit as it was a Davidson's 1 of 400 production.

So yeah. in my book .410 is useless. On the other side of the coin, My father sold a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge to my cousin on a day he couldn't hit anything with it. I walked out in the yard with it and saw a squirrel in the top of a walnut across the creek 60 yards away. Boom, squirrel falling dead. Squirrel and gravy for dinner. I traded him a Henry 22 lever action (new) for it. We were both happy. I was even more happy to get rid of that .410!!

Was it choked at all? Normally 410 guns are OVER choked with full choke. My CZ will reliablely knock pheasants/chukar out of the air at 30+ yards.
In a 410 bore the long shot collum doesn't like too much constriction.

[gamekeeper]

Yes what GunnyMack says has been my experience over 60 years of using .410s, having had .410s in every choke from cyl to ex.full I'll settle for Modified, although cartridge choice also has an effect on how well or poorly a .410 will perform.

[buckeyeshooter]

I bought a JM Marlin XLR .410 lever action. Excited to try it out I bought a box of 6's, 7.5's and 8's. Went to my range and put up an outers life sized squirrel target and started checking the pattern. It was the worst I ever saw! The BEST group was 4 pellets of 7.5's on the squirrel at 20 yards. Mostly it was 1 or 2 pellets at 20 yards. Slugs were a bit better with a 3 inch group at 40 yards.
The worst part was the gun was very heavy. My friends winchester 9410 packer has screw in chokes and is light and handles well.
I contemplated sending it to Doug Turnbull to become an XLR 50 Alaskan. But, I relented and sold it off at a large profit as it was a Davidson's 1 of 400 production.

So yeah. in my book .410 is useless. On the other side of the coin, My father sold a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge to my cousin on a day he couldn't hit anything with it. I walked out in the yard with it and saw a squirrel in the top of a walnut across the creek 60 yards away. Boom, squirrel falling dead. Squirrel and gravy for dinner. I traded him a Henry 22 lever action (new) for it. We were both happy. I was even more happy to get rid of that .410!!

Was it choked at all? Normally 410 guns are OVER choked with full choke. My CZ will reliablely knock pheasants/chukar out of the air at 30+ yards.
In a 410 bore the long shot collum doesn't like too much constriction.

No, that was the biggest problem. Cylinder bore, no choke. I also thought about sending it to Briley for choke tubes. But, I really did not like a 9 pound .410. Stainless steel, laminate stock and lots of steel in the barrel. Not worth the effort to make it shoot.

[Bill in Oregon]

Paul, thanks for sharing your fascinating experience with shotguns in the Amazon. I have loaded Magtech/CBC all-brass shells in 12 and 16 and got fine performance. The black powder loads were especially fun.
Years ago I had a SMLE that was converted to .410 and IIRC used .444 Marlin brass for the loads.

[GunnyMack]

Just saw Keltec is now making that dual magazine pump thingy in 410.

[6pt-sika]

I dont load for the 45 Colt...
But I can get 2 .430 round balls into a 28ga wad- gotta try that next !!

Two or three years ago I worked out 28 gauge loads for #1 , #2 and #3 buck in the little 28 . I also got one of the eastern block molds for a 28 gauge version of the Lyman sabot slug . That slug in the little 28 I had shot deer usable groups at my self limited range of thirty yards . The little gun also did very nicely with the factory load Brenneke slugs .

[EdinCT]

I have wondered about shooting a 38 wcf out of my 410. Then I think about a tumbling projectile can't be very effective very far. A well placed thug slug is a much better option. I have heard of the 45 colt stories and swaging a .452 down to .390 approx for most full choke guns just seems foolish.

[6pt-sika]

I bought a JM Marlin XLR .410 lever action. Excited to try it out I bought a box of 6's, 7.5's and 8's. Went to my range and put up an outers life sized squirrel target and started checking the pattern. It was the worst I ever saw! The BEST group was 4 pellets of 7.5's on the squirrel at 20 yards. Mostly it was 1 or 2 pellets at 20 yards. Slugs were a bit better with a 3 inch group at 40 yards.
The worst part was the gun was very heavy. My friends winchester 9410 packer has screw in chokes and is light and handles well.
I contemplated sending it to Doug Turnbull to become an XLR 50 Alaskan. But, I relented and sold it off at a large profit as it was a Davidson's 1 of 400 production.

So yeah. in my book .410 is useless. On the other side of the coin, My father sold a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge to my cousin on a day he couldn't hit anything with it. I walked out in the yard with it and saw a squirrel in the top of a walnut across the creek 60 yards away. Boom, squirrel falling dead. Squirrel and gravy for dinner. I traded him a Henry 22 lever action (new) for it. We were both happy. I was even more happy to get rid of that .410!!

Was it choked at all? Normally 410 guns are OVER choked with full choke. My CZ will reliablely knock pheasants/chukar out of the air at 30+ yards.
In a 410 bore the long shot collum doesn't like too much constriction.

I dunno what choke if any but I had one of the 336 410’s for awhile . Only time I ever fired it I took it to the club one night for the skeet league of which I was not competing in and shot two rounds breaking if memory serves 47 of 50 . The three I lost were second birds on doubles that the lever was difficult to work . I bought that gun brand new shot two rounds cleaned it put it in the safe and sold it a couple years later as has already been said a PROFiT and mine was the regular Marlin run when they first brought it out . I dunno if it’s worth telling but I’d been out of the skeet game long enough that those at our club that were supposed to be the skeet hotshots of the time rolled their eyes at the little lever action , think those two guys were shooting Betetta 682 O/U’s with 20 gauge tubes in . The laugh was on them after two rounds I tied one and beat the other by a bird . I’m good like that LOL’s !

[.45colt]

6PT wrote; "Two or three years ago I worked out 28 gauge loads for #1 , #2 and #3 buck in the little 28 . I also got one of the eastern block molds for a 28 gauge version of the Lyman sabot slug . That slug in the little 28 I had shot deer usable groups at my self limited range of thirty yards . The little gun also did very nicely with the factory load Brenneke slugs . Five years ago I picked up a Tri-Star Viper 28 ga semi auto. The little gun runs very well and I'm very happy with it. I too bought a few boxes of the Brenneke 5/8 oz slugs . 1,450 fps at the muzzle . Out of the improved cyl choke it shoots like a rifle at woods ranges and recoil is hardly noticeable from a S/A.

[Mike Armstrong]

The first two bucks I ever killed were with a Winchester Model 37 .410 single shot loaded with Remington "Foster" slugs. Both were little Columbian Blacktail meat bucks with forked horns and went at abuut 85 # with the blood and guts out. I shot each at about 20 yards. One just fell dead right ther with a smashed spine just below his skull, the other took a couple of jumps and ended on the top wire of a barbed wire fence. I had "sighted the slugs in" on a cardboard box so knew more-or-lees where to sit the bead to get the slug to hit where it needed to. And I was lucky kid.

Graduated to my grandad's bolt action .25-20 the next year and used it for years.

[GunnyMack]

Yeah Mike , another cartridge that isn't big enough to kill a deer- the 25-20!

[mickbr]

I shot .44-40's out of my 410 when I was a kid. Made a really neat slug load.

EDIT: I also shot .30-30's. Pointed straight up the bullet would go about 15 feet or so. Big boom. If the brass didn't split I reloaded them with shot.

Always wondered how 44 special would do. Brass doesnt match the chamber as well as 44-40 but Id assume a lead slug will exit roughly as well.

[JimT]

I never tried the .44 Specials. As long as the brass seals the chamber it should work fine.

[6pt-sika]

Yeah Mike , another cartridge that isn't big enough to kill a deer- the 25-20!

The great Jordan whitetail buck that was number 1 for many years in the B&C book was done in with a 25-20 . Now James Jordan did shoot that deer six times I think .

[GunnyMack]

So he shot it/at it 6 times, fact is it worked.
I remember seeing a professional TV hunter shoot a buck in the hind quarters claimed on camera it ' was the only shot I had' . But that buck was in an open field! To this day I won't read or watch Spomer!

I'm sure when Jordan saw that buck step out his adrenaline was flowing!
Fact is he got that buck and it was his ticket to fame whether he wanted it or not.

[buckeyeshooter]

I bought a JM Marlin XLR .410 lever action. Excited to try it out I bought a box of 6's, 7.5's and 8's. Went to my range and put up an outers life sized squirrel target and started checking the pattern. It was the worst I ever saw! The BEST group was 4 pellets of 7.5's on the squirrel at 20 yards. Mostly it was 1 or 2 pellets at 20 yards. Slugs were a bit better with a 3 inch group at 40 yards.
The worst part was the gun was very heavy. My friends winchester 9410 packer has screw in chokes and is light and handles well.
I contemplated sending it to Doug Turnbull to become an XLR 50 Alaskan. But, I relented and sold it off at a large profit as it was a Davidson's 1 of 400 production.

So yeah. in my book .410 is useless. On the other side of the coin, My father sold a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge to my cousin on a day he couldn't hit anything with it. I walked out in the yard with it and saw a squirrel in the top of a walnut across the creek 60 yards away. Boom, squirrel falling dead. Squirrel and gravy for dinner. I traded him a Henry 22 lever action (new) for it. We were both happy. I was even more happy to get rid of that .410!!

Was it choked at all? Normally 410 guns are OVER choked with full choke. My CZ will reliablely knock pheasants/chukar out of the air at 30+ yards.
In a 410 bore the long shot collum doesn't like too much constriction.

I dunno what choke if any but I had one of the 336 410’s for awhile . Only time I ever fired it I took it to the club one night for the skeet league of which I was not competing in and shot two rounds breaking if memory serves 47 of 50 . The three I lost were second birds on doubles that the lever was difficult to work . I bought that gun brand new shot two rounds cleaned it put it in the safe and sold it a couple years later as has already been said a PROFiT and mine was the regular Marlin run when they first brought it out . I dunno if it’s worth telling but I’d been out of the skeet game long enough that those at our club that were supposed to be the skeet hotshots of the time rolled their eyes at the little lever action , think those two guys were shooting Betetta 682 O/U’s with 20 gauge tubes in . The laugh was on them after two rounds I tied one and beat the other by a bird . I’m good like that LOL’s !

You must have gotten the good one or I got the bad one. I have a friend who is a .410 nut, has 5 of them and even he could not get it to throw a good pattern.

[6pt-sika]

I bought a JM Marlin XLR .410 lever action. Excited to try it out I bought a box of 6's, 7.5's and 8's. Went to my range and put up an outers life sized squirrel target and started checking the pattern. It was the worst I ever saw! The BEST group was 4 pellets of 7.5's on the squirrel at 20 yards. Mostly it was 1 or 2 pellets at 20 yards. Slugs were a bit better with a 3 inch group at 40 yards.
The worst part was the gun was very heavy. My friends winchester 9410 packer has screw in chokes and is light and handles well.
I contemplated sending it to Doug Turnbull to become an XLR 50 Alaskan. But, I relented and sold it off at a large profit as it was a Davidson's 1 of 400 production.

So yeah. in my book .410 is useless. On the other side of the coin, My father sold a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge to my cousin on a day he couldn't hit anything with it. I walked out in the yard with it and saw a squirrel in the top of a walnut across the creek 60 yards away. Boom, squirrel falling dead. Squirrel and gravy for dinner. I traded him a Henry 22 lever action (new) for it. We were both happy. I was even more happy to get rid of that .410!!

Was it choked at all? Normally 410 guns are OVER choked with full choke. My CZ will reliablely knock pheasants/chukar out of the air at 30+ yards.
In a 410 bore the long shot collum doesn't like too much constriction.

I dunno what choke if any but I had one of the 336 410’s for awhile . Only time I ever fired it I took it to the club one night for the skeet league of which I was not competing in and shot two rounds breaking if memory serves 47 of 50 . The three I lost were second birds on doubles that the lever was difficult to work . I bought that gun brand new shot two rounds cleaned it put it in the safe and sold it a couple years later as has already been said a PROFiT and mine was the regular Marlin run when they first brought it out . I dunno if it’s worth telling but I’d been out of the skeet game long enough that those at our club that were supposed to be the skeet hotshots of the time rolled their eyes at the little lever action , think those two guys were shooting Betetta 682 O/U’s with 20 gauge tubes in . The laugh was on them after two rounds I tied one and beat the other by a bird . I’m good like that LOL’s !

You must have gotten the good one or I got the bad one. I have a friend who is a .410 nut, has 5 of them and even he could not get it to throw a good pattern.

I’ve shot clay targets for a long long time , most clay target shooters of higher ability will tell you not to pattern a 410 . So I’ve never ever patterned one , but I can attest to it breaking targets in the air . I just wish I’d slicked the action up some before shooting ot that day .

[GunnyMack]

6tp, as I've said before, most 410s are over choked with full chokes. My old Hi Standard Flite King skeet choke with 3" #5s was my favorite when shooting ducks at my buddies farm all those many years ago before non toxic laws. Just stone dead out to 30 odd yards.
No choke is almost as bad but I/C or mod is the sweet spot if you ask me.

Now 3" is 11/16oz of shot, Olympic trap now requires 24gr loads or about 13/16 oz and those targets are faster than every live bird you could imagine. Sure clay birds are fragile but the fact is there isn't as much difference as people think just as long as you LOOK at the target. I find I tend to get lax when I shoot my 'big' 28 but I score many more head shots with my CZ 410.