Thermal scope vs clip-on, and...."Subsonic 22 Magnum"...???

[AJMD429]

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I was checking out the video more in regards to the thermal scope they were discussing, but couldn't help but thinking why go to the extra expense of a 22 WMR (...and I'm sure subsonic loads are probably even more expensive than regular 22 WMR ammo...) If you are just going to use subsonic ammo...? I didn't even think the bullet construction was all that different, although maybe that's significant.

I think if I wanted a garden-pest rifle suitable for use at night, I would ideally want either:

- a 22 LR - the advantage being the ammunition is inexpensive enough that I could practice quite a bit and get proficient taking out rabbits and chipmunks easily, or

- a 32-20 or similar - it seems like with the right rifle, the accuracy potential of that 'vintage target shooting cartridge' would be great, and 'vintage' loads would be just the ticket for the 75 yards or less typically needed, plus if you're in your own garden you should be able to know the range precisely so know your trajectory dropped within a half an inch or so.

- a 300 Blackout - wasting a little more lead per shot, but a potentially flatter trajectory depending on the load.

- a 22 WMR with regular (supersonic) loads - which would offer a flatter trajectory than the 22 LR, in exchange for more noise.

- a 'pistol cartridge' carbine - which again would be throwing a lot more lead than needed, but like the 300 Blackout, offer the ability to deal with larger critters should the need arise.

I have been trying to decide what the best firearm would be to use with thermal imaging for garden pests, now that thermal imaging has gotten pretty affordable.

Any of you guys have experience or suggestions in that realm?

Currently for the budget (2,000-2,500) and my needs (<100 yards, mostly rabbits or other garden pests, weatherproof) the AGM 'Rattler' series 384 core seems adequate.

Scope - https://nightvisionguys.com/agm-rattler ... 35-mm-lens

Clip-on - https://nightvisionguys.com/agm-rattler ... 35-mm-lens

The idea of a clip-on seems attractive, because I could use it primarily on whatever I wind up using as my garden-pest gun, but could then slip it in front of my ACOG 4X that is on the 2-legged predator defense tool. However from what I've read and viewed comparing both versions of the Rattler, it may be easier to use the scope version versus clip-on when switching between rifles because you still wind up having to do some realignment of the image when switching to a different firearm, even if you're not using the reticle in clip-on mode. The scope version evidently makes that process easier because you simply store the reticles for a given rifle, so you are going to be close enough that the firearm would be serviceable immediately, and you could do precision re-zeroing quickly if needed.

So, I'm still trying to decide whether it makes sense to spend extra money for a clip-on, that can be converted to a standalone scope, versus just getting the plain scope and being done with it.

And the other thing I have to figure out is what firearm would make the most sense to put it on for pest patrol. Probably either a 22LR or I have an Encore 300 Blackout barrel.

Decisions, decisions.....

(... My military veteran friends of course tell me that there is no point in getting anything at all unless I man up and spend at least twice as much. One said not to even bother considering anything less than a 640 core, and of course told me it would be better to get a night vision helmet set up, because then I can visualize terrain better if I am in an unfamiliar area, and could also walk around or even drive without headlights using such a setup. The problem is that I think they have a good solution to a different problem. I'm not going to be parachuting into unfamiliar territory to try to eliminate rabbits that shoot back...! Plus, the reality is that if I waited to save up to get what they consider the 'bare minimum', I'd probably be 97 years old by then...! )

[2ndovc]

I've been looking at the thermal/ digital scopes lately as well. I was thinking of putting one on one of my little Savage .22s, since I live just inside the city limits. I can get away with the subsonic .22s without anyone getting excited. I'd like to put it on something larger to take to our cabin. I'm hoping the one I've been looking at will be easy to swap back and forth between the .22 and my .450 Bushmaster.
If i still lived outside of town, I'd put it on the .450 and be happy I think.

jb

[Grizz]

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I was checking out the video more in regards to the thermal scope they were discussing, but couldn't help but thinking why go to the extra expense of a 22 WMR (...and I'm sure subsonic loads are probably even more expensive than regular 22 WMR ammo...) If you are just going to use subsonic ammo...? I didn't even think the bullet construction was all that different, although maybe that's significant.

I think if I wanted a garden-pest rifle suitable for use at night, I would ideally want either:

- a 22 LR - the advantage being the ammunition is inexpensive enough that I could practice quite a bit and get proficient taking out rabbits and chipmunks easily, or

- a 32-20 or similar - it seems like with the right rifle, the accuracy potential of that 'vintage target shooting cartridge' would be great, and 'vintage' loads would be just the ticket for the 75 yards or less typically needed, plus if you're in your own garden you should be able to know the range precisely so know your trajectory dropped within a half an inch or so.

- a 300 Blackout - wasting a little more lead per shot, but a potentially flatter trajectory depending on the load.

- a 22 WMR with regular (supersonic) loads - which would offer a flatter trajectory than the 22 LR, in exchange for more noise.

- a 'pistol cartridge' carbine - which again would be throwing a lot more lead than needed, but like the 300 Blackout, offer the ability to deal with larger critters should the need arise.

I have been trying to decide what the best firearm would be to use with thermal imaging for garden pests, now that thermal imaging has gotten pretty affordable.

Any of you guys have experience or suggestions in that realm?

Currently for the budget (2,000-2,500) and my needs (<100 yards, mostly rabbits or other garden pests, weatherproof) the AGM 'Rattler' series 384 core seems adequate.

Scope - https://nightvisionguys.com/agm-rattler ... 35-mm-lens

Clip-on - https://nightvisionguys.com/agm-rattler ... 35-mm-lens

The idea of a clip-on seems attractive, because I could use it primarily on whatever I wind up using as my garden-pest gun, but could then slip it in front of my ACOG 4X that is on the 2-legged predator defense tool. However from what I've read and viewed comparing both versions of the Rattler, it may be easier to use the scope version versus clip-on when switching between rifles because you still wind up having to do some realignment of the image when switching to a different firearm, even if you're not using the reticle in clip-on mode. The scope version evidently makes that process easier because you simply store the reticles for a given rifle, so you are going to be close enough that the firearm would be serviceable immediately, and you could do precision re-zeroing quickly if needed.

So, I'm still trying to decide whether it makes sense to spend extra money for a clip-on, that can be converted to a standalone scope, versus just getting the plain scope and being done with it.

And the other thing I have to figure out is what firearm would make the most sense to put it on for pest patrol. Probably either a 22LR or I have an Encore 300 Blackout barrel.

Decisions, decisions.....

(... My military veteran friends of course tell me that there is no point in getting anything at all unless I man up and spend at least twice as much. One said not to even bother considering anything less than a 640 core, and of course told me it would be better to get a night vision helmet set up, because then I can visualize terrain better if I am in an unfamiliar area, and could also walk around or even drive without headlights using such a setup. The problem is that I think they have a good solution to a different problem. I'm not going to be parachuting into unfamiliar territory to try to eliminate rabbits that shoot back...! Plus, the reality is that if I waited to save up to get what they consider the 'bare minimum', I'd probably be 97 years old by then...! )

YaBut Doc,

that scope cost the same as this T2R
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2Runner in Shade.jpeg

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And has better night vision, better life support, good heating AND air conditioning, can carry ALL the guns on your list, and operates for 11 cents per mile.

But if i didn't need gasoline and tires and oil changes, i could save up and buy that very cool scope LOL

grizz

[AJMD429]

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Yeah that's the dilemma with lots in life.

Priorities.

I will say that one of the best purchases in terms of 'satisfaction' has been my BHA levergun in 500 S&W. I could have bought four Guide Guns for the same price, but it really IS an awesome gun.

Optics-wise, a few years ago I splurged and got an ACOG 4x, and IT IS AWESOME. I'd put it on every non-benchrest gun I scoped, if I had the money. I could swap it around gun-to-gun I suppose, but too much work. There simply is no other optic I've ever had that is that clear, that durable, and that intuitive. But yes, putting a $1,250 scope on a generic $600 AR does seem odd, for sure...

This video was a nice review of the big three paths/choices - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9reJDdeAjds.

You definitely get what you pay for, but the key is figuring out what you really NEED. I've usually used a LPVO on rifles that I scope (and I scope many, due to ageing eyesight). Now that red-dots and holographics have gotten WAY more affordable (and compact), I've used many of those, and like them.

Thermal does seem to do more practical stuff than night vision, because the latter excels in more 'combat' scenarios, and thermal is better for just 'is there a coyote out back of the goat barn?' or 'was it a human, or animal, that just got the dogs barking?'. Those are practical questions. For four-legged stuff though, my 'Night Scout' setups do pretty well, and I've nailed a few chicken-eating pests in total darkness, out to 50 yards or so, with just a $220 Burris Fastfire-2, $40 LED flashlight in scope-rings, and $120 LaserMax, all mounted on a trusty pistol-caliber levergun.

[Grizz]

The only scope I have is a bullet drop 1-4 for the 556. Has a lighted reticule that seems handy. I haven't shot it yet!.... Oh wait, I also have a bullet drop fixed zeiss made for the HK-91 AND it fits my 762 91 clone. Which I also have not shot the guns with their scopes. . . . . I think next road trip I might load up all that stuff and find out what the guns can do.

I think your 500 levergun is very cool, and could be a one-gun arsenal if you developed loads for it. Maybe a sabot .17 for the squills ? and a .25 for the 'yotes?