Disappointing 38/40 article in "Handloader"

[earlmck]

The first 10mm magnum -- our fine 38WCF or 38/40 -- has plenty of fans on this forum, and this article looked promising:

HandloaderDec22.jpg

Handloader1222article.jpg

So our author starts out by conceding that the 38/40 has some challenges in loading, but what he considers "challenging" is the shortage of published data for different bullets and new powders, and maybe also that JC himself couldn't stuff 40 grains of black powder in modern cases. Well, yes all of that is true but pretty minor in the irritation department I would think. Us folks that shoot old guns and old cartridges are used to dealing with sparse data. The real challenge loading 38/40's is the little short neck with thin brass -- this means you aren't going to be able to rely on neck tension to hold the bullet in place. How you hold your bullet in place so it doesn't drift forward and lock up the cylinder of your revolver or drift backward and shoot pressures skyward in your rifle -- this "hold in place" thing is the whole challenge in our 38WCF. My hold-in-place strategy is to use compressed loads in the rifle so the bullet can't migrate backwards. And I have one bullet I can get a good enough crimp on to keep from jumping forward in the revolver so that is all the revolver gets.

So what does this clown (oops, I mean author) do? Sheesh -- he only uses two bullets, neither of which have a crimp groove or cannelure. After loading he shoves them back in the size die (decap rod removed) far enough to get a kinda' taper crimp to hold them in place long enough to load them Single Shot into his m92 rifle! And this passes for an accepted article in today's Handloader magazine. He does mention that maybe you could get the jacketed bullet maker to put you in a cannelure. And he says he has a cannelure tool but doesn't bother using it for this article though maybe it'd be allright if you do it if you really insist on using that lever action as a repeater. But there is no problem at all if you load 'em one at a time, so there ya' go.

I've been a subscriber for a while -- here's a pic of the first one from my collection

HandloaderMay66.jpg

May of '66 which is their #1, mom had to keep them saved up for me 'till I got home on leave because I was property of Uncle Sam's Navy in those days.

Either things have deteriorated a whole lot at "Handloader" or I have got crotchety, but I'm having trouble thinking of a reason to keep subscribed. I prolly shoulda' bailed when they lost George Nonte'.

[Griff]

Certainly does sound like lazy research. Or just not very well stocked up on components for that particular cartridge. I still think one would gather more components to better inform folks.

[Oldncrusty]

Thanks for the info. Hope to get back to reloading this winter. Until then I'm stuck with factory stuff. Not a problem yet since I only have one mouth to feed for deer season, but hope to get a revolver pal for the 1873 (1889 model)

This is my sight in target after changing the front sight. Got it close at 25 then moved to 50. First 3 at 50.

[GunnyMack]

Another 'expert " claiming they know more and better...
Write to the editors, point out the mistakes, laziness, even ignorance of the article.
Anymore it seems everything you read has mistakes, grammar, punctuation and information is wrong in at least 1 article in the many magazines I get. I can't believe some of the stuff put into print that is flat out WRONG. Recently an article with a table listing bullet diameters , the 450 Bushmaster at .458- um NO! Could you imagine some newbie reloader taking that info and actually trying to seat 458s? Actually clambering one in an AR ? Sure it's only .006" difference but it's WRONG. Just another example of people ( editor ) not doing their jobs!

[AJMD429]

.
Would a Lee 'Factory Crimp' die work for 38-40 (I mean the 'rifle type' not the 'pistol type')...?

I've used them in the also-thin-necked 32-20 without problems, even though I've worried the crimp could damage the brass more than other types of crimping.

The 'rifle' type is a very different finger-collet-style die vs the 'pistol' one - http://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=62574

[Rockrat]

Saw the cover and was looking forward to a good article on the 38-40. I was also disappointed as it seemed like a hastily thrown together article as they needed a few more pages for the issue. Barely scratched the surface it seemed. More of a "filler' piece.

[Bill in Oregon]

I don't have that issue Earl, but another solution is to buy a cannelure tool. I've had the one from Corbin and the one from C&H and much prefer the latter.
This isn't the first time Wolfe has disappointed ...

[wvfarrier]

Buffalo Bore offers a 180 grain load that is excellent. It pushes 1000fps out of a 5" barrel and 1400 out of a carbine

[ollogger]

Articles like this is the very reason why i quit wasting my money
jeepers, look at the American Rifleman from the NRA, bout to cancel them also!
never had a problem loading cartridges for the 73 or a 92 or any hand guns ive had in the 38-40
or any other cartridge that would fit in them guns, except one Colt in 44-40


ollogger

[earlmck]

First 3 at 50.

That looks promising crusty!

Would a Lee 'Factory Crimp' die work for 38-40 (I mean the 'rifle type' not the 'pistol type')...?

Doc, you'll be happy to learn -- the FC die for the 38/40 is the rifle type die. I have one but have not used it yet as I haven't loaded any rounds for the revolver since acquiring the die. For my rifle loads I am real happy with my "compressed load" technique where I do just enough "crimping" to remove the good bell I give my cases. Full power load I stuff a case with RL-7; black-powder equivalent I use 2.2 grains of Universal to burn a case full of W760 (WWII surplus 50 cal machine gun powder). For intermediate loads I'd use a little more Universal and a little less w760.

I don't have that issue Earl, but another solution is to buy a cannelure tool. I've had the one from Corbin and the one from C&H and much prefer the latter.
This isn't the first time Wolfe has disappointed ...

And the author claimed to own a cannelure tool and he advised you had to get the cannelure in the right place (good advice) but he didn't bother using it and showing results with it for his article. Like -- would it do anything on that coated bullet? And does it do a good enough job to hold against both rifle and revolver recoil with the notoriously wimpy neck of the 38/40?

Hey, if "Handloader" asks me to do a "Loading for the 38/40" article I'll dang sure try my Lee FC die, my cannelure tool, and a decent range of bullets. I suspect they won't ask, but if they do....

Although I suspect "Handloader" would de-platform me for my light-load duplexing strategy though. Well, that's just their loss.

[EdinCT]

I have loaded 38 WCF's for 50 years and can count the cases I've ruined on my digits I bet. I have used the lee factory crimp to put crimps on XTP's and gold dots. When I have deer hunted with it I used pulled soft points with perfect results, but I have to wonder why I wouldn't do has well with a 25 or 30-1 bullet. My only mold is a Lyman 172 gr. with a smaller flat nose. I think the former editor at Wolfe mentioned that he had turned his resizing die down about .125 and it then restored the neck to original length. Brass may not last has long though?
I shot two deer this AM with a 44 magnum rifle that would of been just has dead with Gramps 38-40!

[Bryan Austin]

Both the 38-40 and 44-40 get poor reviews because most have no idea as to the history and why the ballistic change over several generations. Stop treating and loading both like a pistol cartridge if you want performance in rifles, of which they were designed.

[elmo123]

I have an 26" bbl 1892 with a rough bore that I started loading for years ago and I worked up many more loads than the ones listed in the article. The first thing I did after buying cases and bullets was to buy a cannelure tool so I could use 40 caliber bullets that I had on hand for the 40/10mm's that I already loaded for.
Then I bought a Lee factory crimp die which works pretty good. The next thing I did was to shorten my Lee resizing die about a 1/10" so I had more of a neck to work with.
The brass I recommend is Starline it is stronger and lasts longer than Winchester even with hotter loads.

[marlinman93]

These types of poorly written articles by people with little or no knowledge are part of the reason I don't subscribe to any gun magazines anymore! Somehow people got lazy, or didn't demand a higher standard from their gun magazine writers, and now younger folks are stuck trying to figure out stuff most older guys have been doing for years!
I'm still casting and loading bullets from an old Ideal mold #40043 that drops a 180 gr. bullet and have no issues with this bullet moving either direction under recoil. I use my old RCBS die set I've had for probably 35 years, and it puts just enough crimp on my case mouths to secure the bullets just fine. Even in my leverguns with tubular magazines where mag springs put a fair amount of pressure on the stack of cartridges.
I honestly never thought this was a problem? I have had issues on occasion of accidentally wrinkling cases if I wasn't careful to make sure they were sitting into the shell holder completely. They are thin, and need to take care not to crunch a case when I'm going too fast during sizing, or seating bullets.