The Winter War

[2ndovc]

I've been fascinated, for a long time by the Finnish / Russian conflict that occurred not long before the US entered WWII. We wouldn't back the Finns after the British decided that they would not or could not support their fights with the Soviets. In the end they turned to Germany to help with their caused.

I got my Finn marked C96 out the other day, need to make some ammo for it but I only have a few empty cases for it. Anyway, scrounging around the net I came across this Capcha meme and it made me laugh.


Reminded me of an old Finnish joke:

Once when the Finns and Russians were at war, the Russians heard a shout behind a hill: - One Finn is equivalent to two Russkis.

The Russian commander sent two men with a special training to deal with the shouter, but neither of them came back. Instead, soon a shout rang out behind the hill: - One Finn is equivalent to ten Russkis.

The angry commander immediately sent two commando men behind the hill, but besides a couple of gunshots nothing was heard. The men were gone, but a new shout was heard behind the hill: - One Finn is equivalent to fifty Russkis.

The furious commander sent an elite group of fifty men behind the hill and for a moment gunshots were heard. When the gunfire ceased, not one Russki came back. Instead, a shout was heard: - One Finn is equivalent to a hundred Russkis.

Not caring about anything in his fury the commander sent a hundred men behind the hill, where a huge gun-fight began. After some time one badly wounded Russki dragged himself from behind the hill and said: -
Commander, those Finns lied. There were two of them!



Looking forward to it getting a bit warmer and out to the range. This Sako Model 39 is one of the top three most accurate military rifles I have. It's just as accurate as my Remington 03A3 and Savage No4 MkI.



I know there are a few military collectors in this bunch. Love to see some pictures.

jb

[Scott Tschirhart]

That's a hell of a good joke!

[piller]

Quite funny. However, it isn't really bragging if you can prove it. Of course, the Russians had a lot of men to waste.

[gamekeeper]

The Finnish/Russian war is quite an interesting conflict, the Russians really got their butts kicked in the beginning. Hence the joke....

[2ndovc]

The Finnish/Russian war is quite an interesting conflict, the Russians really got their butts kicked in the beginning. Hence the joke....

That's putting it lightly. The Finns would ski into a Soviet camp, kill everyone, steal all their stuff and ski out like ghosts. A friend of mine actually got to meet Simo Hayha before he passed away. One of the guys in the group was talking about a specific battle where he had racked up a large number of Russian kills. He asked Simo kind of a dumb question about how he killed so many that day. Simo looked at him and simply said; "It was a clear day". The really impressive part is that he did most of his shooting with an open sighted Model 28 and then a 28/30. There are pictures of Simo with a scoped rifle, but I don't know how much he used it. He was also quite effective with a 9mm Suomi.

jb

[3leggedturtle]

Those Finns were tough bad 's... Read a few books about them. Sitting dawn to dusk on a -45 winter day just to get one shot at an enemy soldier!

[AJMD429]

On his guns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XzmCQUPyTM

[Old No7]

Semi sorta related........... But of interest to this crew I'm sure...

Watch for the upcoming movie about Latvian soldiers in WWI called "Blizzard Of Souls" -- the movie trailer (Google it) puts it right up there with Pvt Ryan for war action scenes.

(It was released in the UK as "The Rifleman".)

Old No7

[2ndovc]

Cool, I'll have to look for that.


jb

[OldWin]

Semi sorta related........... But of interest to this crew I'm sure...

Watch for the upcoming movie about Latvian soldiers in WWI called "Blizzard Of Souls" -- the movie trailer (Google it) puts it right up there with Pvt Ryan for war action scenes.

(It was released in the UK as "The Rifleman".)

Old No7

That sounds pretty good! Hadn't heard of it.


The Finns were some tough monkeys in the face of long odds. I have huge respect.
My dad worked with a bunch of them on a paper machine install back around 1980. He really liked them and said they were straight up guys......and still hated the Russians.

[piller]

I doubt that the Russians would admit to how many men they truly lost to the Finns. The official numbers are staggering, but as in any war, the numbers that were not official were sometimes a little more to a lot more. The one thing that the Russians had too much of was men. They could afford to grind it out in lives because they had more lives to waste. If the Finns would have had 50% more men than what they did, it is possible that the Russians might have not been able to take Finland. That is just conjecture based on total lives lost on each side versus total numbers each side started with. I have never liked the British and Russian methods of trying to make the enemy run out of bullets before you run out of lives. Making the enemy die for his Country always seemed like the better option to me.

[.45colt]

Always learning something here !! I am a fan of the "Life below zero" show that is on TV. One person on the show really has intrigued Me with Her shooting ability is the Native/Eskimo Lady Agnes Hailstone . I thought She was shooting a short version of the Mosin Nagant but now I bet She has a Sako 39 . The rifle She has looks exactly like the Sako in the picture Jason. I have seen Her take Moose ,many caribou , and even a running wolf . Thanks for a Great post. !

[Lastmohecken]

The Finnish/Russian war is quite an interesting conflict, the Russians really got their butts kicked in the beginning. Hence the joke....

That's putting it lightly. The Finns would ski into a Soviet camp, kill everyone, steal all their stuff and ski out like ghosts. A friend of mine actually got to meet Simo Hayha before he passed away. One of the guys in the group was talking about a specific battle where he had racked up a large number of Russian kills. He asked Simo kind of a dumb question about how he killed so many that day. Simo looked at him and simply said; "It was a clear day". The really impressive part is that he did most of his shooting with an open sighted Model 28 and then a 28/30. There are pictures of Simo with a scoped rifle, but I don't know how much he used it. He was also quite effective with a 9mm Suomi.

jb

I read a few years ago, when Simo was still alive, that he also had the option to use a Swedish Mauser with a scope, but did not care for it, because he had to stick his head up a lot higher to look through the scope, then when using iron sights. Makes sense, I guess.

I also remember a quote from a Russian Official who said when fighting the Fins that the ground they gained was just enough to bury their dead. Actually, in the end Russia eventually gave back all of the land taken in the Winter War. Or at least, that's the way I remember it.

[2ndovc]

Always learning something here !! I am a fan of the "Life below zero" show that is on TV. One person on the show really has intrigued Me with Her shooting ability is the Native/Eskimo Lady Agnes Hailstone . I thought She was shooting a short version of the Mosin Nagant but now I bet She has a Sako 39 . The rifle She has looks exactly like the Sako in the picture Jason. I have seen Her take Moose ,many caribou , and even a running wolf . Thanks for a Great post. !

I'm full of that stuff, most of it is useless but now and then someone is impressed.


I'll have to try and catch the Below Zero show. I'm going to hit the Niles-Warren show on Saturday. It's a drive, but I'm dying for a decent show.

jb

[.45colt]

The last show I drove to was I think in Midena Oh and I was pretty disappointed. too much junk and high priced guns, I am old Codger and am rapidly turning into "Walter" that old guy that sit's on Jeff Dunham's lap... ...I am looking forward to a day trip back to Jaquas in Findlay . they have a whole bunch of stuff that keeps My attention for a hours. Good Luck at the show. .

[2ndovc]

Jaquas is quite a place, especially if you have a couple grand to play with. I haven't been there for years, as much as I'd like a nice Over under 12 or 2o ga, they just aren't that high up on my list.


jb

[Bill in Oregon]

I, too, have devoted time and study to the Winter War. A very good history is William Trotter's "Frozen Hell." For an insightful study of the Finns' weapons, especially their Mosin modifications, I highly recommend "Rifles of the White Death" by Doug Bowser.

[piller]

The Finns vs the Russians was proof that overwhelming odds can win in the right situation. The one side must be prepared to waste a lot of lives. If Russia had not had so many lives, and perhaps a little less help from the USA, there would have been many changes to the way WWII played out.

[2ndovc]

I, too, have devoted time and study to the Winter War. A very good history is William Trotter's "Frozen Hell." For an insightful study of the Finns' weapons, especially their Mosin modifications, I highly recommend "Rifles of the White Death" by Doug Bowser.

I have a signed copy of Mr. Bower's book. Lots of details.

jb

[TraderVic]

Interesting, I was reading about Simo's feats as a sniper, unreal, what a shooter ! The thing that caught my attention the most was Simo would fill his mouth with snow to mask his breath (exhale) from giving away his position to the Russians.
The Finns are definitely a strong people.

[Bill in Oregon]

Not sure of the date of this colorized photo, but it is one of my favorites. God bless Suomi!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ColorizedHisto ... d_his_dog/

[gamekeeper]

Winter War competition....2021.

https://youtu.be/3ba-TyDyKZ4

[piller]

Looks difficult.

[.45colt]

O.K. Guys I'm ready to order one of the books.....I'm intrigued by their skill but do any mention how they survived hours in the brutal cold did they wear wool ? I can only imagine sub zero temps.....what kind of boots did they have ? Thank You.

[2ndovc]

O.K. Guys I'm ready to order one of the books.....I'm intrigued by their skill but do any mention how they survived hours in the brutal cold did they wear wool ? I can only imagine sub zero temps.....what kind of boots did they have ? Thank You.

Something like this.


I'll have to find it, but I have a WWII press photo of some Swedish troops that had volunteered to go fight for Finland. There are quite a few Finn (SA) marked 1896 Mausers out there.

jb

[t.r.]

A great read is: Frozen Hell by William Trotter. I ordered this book through our intra-library loan program.

TR