Generator Recommendations?

[stretch]

Good Morning!

Yet again, we lost power for a few days after a storm.
This is always a pain in the neck, and it happens with
distressing frequency these days.

I have a small Champion portable generator - 3500 Watts. Its' just
about big enough to run the well pump if nothing else is on, and maybe
the refrigerator, as long as both aren't starting at the same time. Good
piece of equipment, but a little bit small for running the house.

So, I'm looking for something that will run the well pump, a frig, freezer,
the hot water heater, THE COFFEE MAKER!, and a few lights. I'm guessing
that I'll need somewhere around 10,000 running watts - surge to 12,000 or 13,000.

Before the divorce I had a Honda 3500 watt generator. Really, really, nice - but the
prices of the bigger ones are a wee bit breathtaking.

Does anybody have any experience with a 10,000 watt+ portable generator that
won't break the bank? NorthStar make one that's Honda powered that's not too, too
expensive for instance. I read reviews for different brands online, and for every
good review it seems as if there's a complaint. Is there one to recommend?

If the only good portable gensets are the spendy ones, I'm also considering a whole
house automagic start unit. Real money, but much less hassle in the middle of the night,
in the middle of a snowstorm......

-Stretch

[M. M. Wright]

I bought a Hobart welder that was a refurb for about 2 grand. It's also a 10KW generator and runs our place just fine during an ice storm. I've had to use it several times and I can build fence corners with it. Twin cylinder Kohler powered.

[GunnyMack]

After hurricane Sandy I bought a 3500 watt from Lowes. It was just enough to keep the well pump going with a few other things. It rattled itself to peices after 14 days.
Then I bought a Honeywell with an unbranded Honda engine 7500 continuous watt, it will run my furnace,well pump, keep the lights on, pellet stoves on.
If i had natural gas here I'd spring for a whole house but i won't get one that runs on propane- that's expensive!!

[marlinman93]

The electrical contractor I used to work for before retirement was also a generator sales, service and install shop. We bought a lot of used generators from grocery stores, and businesses when we sold and installed new generators for them. Many of these companies just changed them out when they got to a certain number of hours, or years. Most were really good generators, with a lot of hours left in them.
If I was looking at a generator, I;d seriously consider a permanently installed generator, and not portable. Unless you plan to haul it around to use elsewhere, or you don't own the home it's hooked to, a permanent generator will be much better, and often cost less. Especially so if you consider the option of buying a good used unit.
If the permanent isn't an option, there are 13,000 watt portables that should handle your load. Have to keep in mind that rated watts are for peak surges, and continuous load ratings are often 2/3rds of the peak rating. But some of the loads you listed can draw large amperage, and have even larger in rush amps to start things like the well or freezer/refrigerator. But you can unplug or turn off the breaker to a fridge or freezer to keep them from cycling while a well pump pressurizes the water system.
A reasonable price for a 13,000 w. portable is around $1500-$2500. More than that wont get you a lot more generator, and will just mean throwing more money away. Presently the DuroMax generators seem to be the least expensive by far at under $1000 starting from some sellers. The DuroMax is a dual fuel generator, and can run off gasoline or propane. Only thing I'd check prior to purchasing any generator is the warranty. And with winter coming to an end several places have generators on sale now. Here's a link to various suppliers for DuroMax:

https://www.google.com/shopping/product ... gL8IfD_BwE

[Tycer]

Don’t forget hours per gallon runtime.

[stretch]

Yeah Tycer, that little generator just sips fuel.

The big ones guzzle the stuff in comparison - even at a light load.

-Stretch

[.45colt]

Spend the money and even if You get a small automatic permanent unit You will have some piece of mind. I think the small permanent ones start at about 2k, I have a portable but ended up putting it in a dedicated place under the back porch. I had to miss work several times to babysit the generator , and when the power goes out in the middle of the night it's no fun to scramble around starting the unit and hooking things up.

[Ragnor]

I too use a generator welder. Miller Trailblazer 10kw, Kohler twin cylinder.

[marlinman93]

A generator that's too small is a poor choice, whether it's permanent or portable. It will be a nightmare selecting loads to try to make it work, and if it's automatic you wont be able to select loads if it suddenly fires up and you can't get to your panel soon enough to select what loads to run. Get enough generator to do the basics, and don't worry about it tripping off from overload.
I've watched generators fall to their knees and trip the main on the generator when in rush currents tax a too small unit. Have to shut everything down, start the generator, and then gradually get loads started to see what holds. Just useless, and frustrating in an emergency situation.
One thing that came out back in the 1990's prior to the Y2K scare was the great little generator panels. They come in anything from a small 4 or 5 circuit panel with all single pole breakers, to larger 12-20 circuit panels with capability of having 220v. feed and double pole breakers. They are pre wired with line and load circuit wiring that are color coded and numbered. So you simply mount them beside your main panel and connect the two metal flex feeds into your panel. The remove a circuit wire(s) you choose, and land one wire from the E panel, and the other wire nuts to the wire(s) taken off the breaker.
All these panels have 3 position breakers that are "normal" "off" and "emergency", so they isolate the panel when the generator is hooked up, and return loads when power is restored. Unlike situations where people back feed their house by plugging their generator into a dryer or welder outlet, which can cause serious safety issues to linemen working out on the poles restoring power when it back feeds their end too! And these panels have receptacles on them to allow your generator to plug right in, and not have a male cord end that is hot when the generator is running just hanging out their to grab the unsuspecting homeowner.
Do it right, with the correct sized generator, and the correct equipment. Or don't do it at all.

[.45colt]

"Do it right, with the correct sized generator, and the correct equipment. Or don't do it at all." I couldn't agree more. In My post I'm not implying to do it yourself. but call a professional.

[Larkbill]

My folks bought a Generac permanent when then decided they couldn't travel to Florida in the winter anymore. Oddly, their juice went off much more often after they moved to town than when they lived out in the sticks. My Dad swore that was one of the best purchases they ever made. Especially after Mom was on an oxygen concentrator. They had natural gas.

[marlinman93]

"Do it right, with the correct sized generator, and the correct equipment. Or don't do it at all." I couldn't agree more. In My post I'm not implying to do it yourself. but call a professional.

I'm fine with people doing it themselves if as you say, they do it right. A professional is a great resource, but many homeowners have the talent to do the work if they have some home wiring experience and check the electrical code rules.

[lthardman]

We lose power quite often. And, I used to travel a lot for work. So when the power went out my family was left in the dark until I could find someone to hook the generator up for them. Finally, I went with a whole house generator that automatically turns on and off as needed. I purchased a 21K Generac that runs on natural gas. I could have gone smaller, but I found out something interesting. When you go smaller, they have to install some special circuitry that systematically shuts down certain appliances or whatever when you are asking for more power than the generator can provide. If you go with a big generator that can handle your total load, then of course you do not need that circuitry. In the end, the total cost difference between my 21K generator alone and the 16K generator with the shut off circuitry was about $300. That $300 is not insignificant, but I sold the old generator for $400 and that sealed the deal.

[Jay Bird]

Stretch,
I like to have a happy medium as to power and gas consumption because if things get REAL bad, I don't want a generator that guzzles a gallon a gas an hour.

We have a rancher that's full electric other than we mostly use wood to heat. A high efficiency heat pump provides air conditioning and heat if we need that. We have a well and electric water heater and this Generac 6500 runs the whole house with zero issues...unless.....I decide to run the dryer or cook a turkey. Common sense dictates that if we need to use several burners just switch off the air conditioning until the food is cooked. One burner is OK.

Believe this generator uses about a quart of gas per hour and we use it several times a year. Last November after the tornado we ran it pretty much solid for a week except at nighttime when sleeping.

When the power goes out I hit the main breaker and backfeed it into the 220 line out in the barn. I used to have a Dayton 5000 that we used for 20 years or more but I just wanted a new one and bought this a couple of years ago....it shows around 200 hours on the hour meter.

It also light enough where I can wheel it around the yard or like I did the other day, down to the pond to run a heavy duty drill.-----6

In case your wondering that big circular thing is my giant silencer that muffles any gun as long as the speed does not break the sound barrier. Nothing more than horse fence shaped like an ice cream cone wrapped with foam rubber and a few old sleeping bags.

[TraderVic]

Stretch,
I like to have a happy medium as to power and gas consumption because if things get REAL bad, I don't want a generator that guzzles a gallon a gas an hour.

We have a rancher that's full electric other than we mostly use wood to heat. A high efficiency heat pump provides air conditioning and heat if we need that. We have a well and electric water heater and this Generac 6500 runs the whole house with zero issues...unless.....I decide to run the dryer or cook a turkey. Common sense dictates that if we need to use several burners just switch off the air conditioning until the food is cooked. One burner is OK.

Believe this generator uses about a quart of gas per hour and we use it several times a year. Last November after the tornado we ran it pretty much solid for a week except at nighttime when sleeping.

When the power goes out I hit the main breaker and backfeed it into the 220 line out in the barn. I used to have a Dayton 5000 that we used for 20 years or more but I just wanted a new one and bought this a couple of years ago....it shows around 200 hours on the hour meter.

It also light enough where I can wheel it around the yard or like I did the other day, down to the pond to run a heavy duty drill.-----6

In case your wondering that big circular thing is my giant silencer that muffles any gun as long as the speed does not break the sound barrier. Nothing more than horse fence shaped like an ice cream cone wrapped with foam rubber and a few old sleeping bags.

A Generac huh ? They are made here in WI.
So.....would you buy another Generac after using the one you have ?

[Jay Bird]

Sure would Trader.....zero issues...but...it is somewhat new and low hours........has 220 and a mess of 110 ......each with individual breakers.....I ran it non stop the first couple of days after the tornado only shutting it down to gas her up.

It's very ergonomic and well designed for ease of use.......has the automatic shut off for low oil but I believe most engines have this now. I use quality gas with Stabile...no cheap 87 octane bought at a no frills corner store.

I like it better than the Dayton I had before and I paid 12 for that one...believe the generac was high 7's.------6

[stretch]

Jay, your setup doesn't sound much different than in terms of electric loads.

At my old house I used to backfeed from the garage after hitting the main breaker.

AT this house the previous owner had the hookup done for the generator with
the correct plug and breaker that isolates the house from the grid. Plug is only
30 AMP - if I get a bigger genset, I'd like a 50Amp plug. Of course, it's outside -
which makes hooking things up a royal PITA in bad weather. And that's when the
power usually goes out, now isn't it?

So, do I spend big bucks to get the permanent one installed? Or do I just get
a bigger portable? And maybe I can get by with 6K or 8K?

Decisions, decisions.....that 6500W Generac doesn't sound too bad, but I'm still
a little bit nervous about running the electric water heater with the well pump. If I'm going with a bigger machine,
I want hot showers. I hate, loathe, despise, and abhor cold showers. Not only that,
I find them uncomfortable and don't like 'em.....

-Stretch

[Jay Bird]

Stretch...yes...plenty of hot water....in realty not much electricity gets used all at once. If you have any doubt....well....you know the rule........yo gits what's hits yo fancy bro!------6

[marlinman93]

The hot water heater isn't a bad load. Mainly because they have no in rush current like a pump or any other load with a motor. Motors can be killers on any power supply, as they can draw 300%-700% of nameplate rating! So a 20 amp pump can easily draw 100 amps in rush on start up! I've taken amp readings on motor circuits and it's amazing how high they draw. It's only for a few seconds, and drops off quickly. But often a generator that's too small will bog down, and when it does the voltage drops even further, which causes amperage to go even higher! Had a customer who had a small Honda that ran great, but when his well pump kicked on the generator would bog and almost die. Then the pump would drop off and it would spring back to life, only to have the pump try to start again. It would sit there doing this up and down routine until the generator or the well pump would kick the breaker.
I ended up recommending he go 3x as big on his generator, but he balked at the thought of the money spent "unnecessarily" and I wouldn't do a smaller unit. He bought a generator from another source, and of course it failed to do the job. A year later he called and wanted me to go ahead with the one I specified, but the price had gone up another 15%. And he sold the one he bought at a loss too. Lesson learned.

[stretch]

Yeah, that well pump bogs the little generator when it kicks in. It always starts it, though.
I just don't want either it or the well pump to die in the middle of a power outage because
the genset's too small. You're right - pumps and motors can REALLY draw power when they
start - especially under load!!

Can you imagine what a paper machine at a mill must draw when they fire it up? Or one
of those big pumps they use in New Orleans to keep the flood waters at bay?!

-Stretch

[marlinman93]

Yeah, that well pump bogs the little generator when it kicks in. It always starts it, though.
I just don't want either it or the well pump to die in the middle of a power outage because
the genset's too small. You're right - pumps and motors can REALLY draw power when they
start - especially under load!!

Can you imagine what a paper machine at a mill must draw when they fire it up? Or one
of those big pumps they use in New Orleans to keep the flood waters at bay?!

-Stretch

Not sure what the nameplate on your pump is, but I'd size the generator at least 3x the amp rating to start. Then add the rest of your loads at face value. If you message me all the loads I can suggest a generator size to handle your needs.