Quick .480 Ruger question

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:26 pm

I can't get GunBlast to open right now to re-read the article on the Puma in .480 Ruger so I'll ask here.

Will it fire anything other than the .480? .45 Colt for example? I seem to recall the .480 came from the groove measurement rather than the land measurement? Or am I mis-un-remembering?

Thanks!:D

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:45 pm

Nope can't do.480 ruger is a shorten 475 Linebaugh cartridge.

Jeff Quinn · Post by **Jeff Quinn** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:55 pm

Try clicking directly on this link:
http://www.gunblast.com/Puma480.htm

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:04 pm

Jeff -

Not to highjack this thread/post, but were you at the NRA show/meetings Friday, walking the floor wearing a blue shirt with your "Gunblast" logo on the back of it? I saw someone from a distance that looked a lot like you, but lost you in the crowd as I made my way over. It was packed when I was there!!!

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:12 pm

awp101,You maybe think'n 454 Casull.Here is a direct link to Paco's article on Gunblast.
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm(45 colt can be fired in a 454 Casull Puma)

Jeff Quinn · Post by **Jeff Quinn** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:20 pm

I was there Friday and most of today.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:44 pm

That's right the .454 is what I was thinking of! I just know dat's a big ole hole in the end of the barrel and the opening in the loading tube looks like a .45-70 would fit...

Well, since it'll only fire the .480 that lessens it's usefulness to me but I may still look at it again. IIRC they were asking 6-something for it which isn't in the old fun budget anyway.

BTW, the links just time out and give me the dreaded IE can't find the page error. Even the GB home page does it.

Thanks!:D

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:52 pm

Well, all the links now work! Go figure...

What's the recoil like out of one of these lightweights comparable to? A MN M44? MAS36? Full house .45-120?

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:45 pm

awp101 wrote:Well, all the links now work! Go figure...

What's the recoil like out of one of these lightweights comparable to? A MN M44? MAS36? Full house .45-120?

The 454 is like a single shot shotgun shooting max(not magnum) loads in recoil. IMO the recoil is abrupt but not brutal, still, the recoil pad is necessary for the 454. I imagine the 480 is about the same.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:48 pm

awp101 wrote:Well, all the links now work! Go figure...

What's the recoil like out of one of these lightweights comparable to? A MN M44? MAS36? Full house .45-120?

Marginally better behind it than in front of it.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:51 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
awp101 wrote:Well, all the links now work! Go figure...

What's the recoil like out of one of these lightweights comparable to? A MN M44? MAS36? Full house .45-120?

Marginally better behind it than in front of it.

Ah, it kills on both ends! It kicks you and when you wake up, it's kicking the guy at the next bench...

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Sun May 18, 2008 6:58 am

piller has one in 480 ruger, maybe he will be along shortly and tell you about his. I know he took a water buffalo with it, and brought it along for the shoot we had a couple of months ago. I shot it and don't remember it to be all that bad.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:10 am

They can be abusive with max loads but it sure is fun. Mine seems to prefer 400 gr jacketed bullets.

Brass can be a little elusive at times. just have to look a little harder. I came across two boxes of factory ammo a at a show yesterday for $25 a box.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun May 18, 2008 6:07 pm

What's really nice about the bigger bores (over .45) is that those huge chunks of wide lead don't have to be going very fast to do the job; so you CAN use light loads for full effect.

My ideal gun would be a 500 S&W or similar round in a beefier Marlin 1894 action. Put it in high gear for punishing recoil and devastating impact, or low gear for a fun plinker and whitetail round...!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun May 18, 2008 7:48 pm

Hmmm, how hot are the factory loads? Mid-range or closer to max?

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:00 pm

Ricky did shoot my .480 Ruger Puma. I had it loaded with 400 grain Speer Gold-Dot flat points with H110. Over the Chrony it was moving about 1250 fps, and in the Puma it isn't too bad. Go up in velocity or weight and it starts to get uncomfortable. I can run it up to about 1400 fps in the Puma without signs of overpressure, but it is not fun anymore. The factory loads are about 1150 fps in 400 grain and about 1325fps in the 325 grain. The 400 grain Speer did penetrate pretty good on the Water Buffalo. A couple of the bullets went all the way through, and at least 1 hit big bone and was torn up pretty bad. My wife found 1 in the ribs, on the inside and stuck to the bone so that it was obviously from the other side of the Buffalo. I have 2 of the bullets which show a pretty good mushroom and the expansion was to about .75 inch. It is not nearly as powerful as a moderate or heavy .45-70, but it is a pistol cartridge. If I do my part, it is a very useful caliber and gun combination. Even Joe, 86er, tried it and he seemed to think that it was fine. I don't think 86er will ever trade his 86 in for a .480 Puma, though.
Also, the .480 Ruger does not shoot any other cartridge. It is the same diameter as a .475 Linebaugh, but the rim diameter is smaller. It seems that Ruger had to go with a smaller rim to make the revolvers a 6 shooter. The Linebaugh rim is large enough that the standard size cylinder in the Super Redhawk will not hold 6 shots and still have enough metal in the cylinder to handle any pressure. Ruger is now making the .480 caliber revolvers in 5 shot with more steel between the cases. The .475 Linebaugh brass might be able to be cut down to fit the new 5 shot Super Redhawk revolvers now, but I don't know for certain.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:09 pm

By the way, the 325 grain loads can be run up to nearly 1550fps in a 7Â½ inch barrel revolver, but they aren't much fun and the accuracy actually gets worse. I have the best accuracy from dropping the 325 grain bullets about 100fps from factory, and the 400 grain going about 150fps faster. Go figure.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:15 pm

piller wrote:It is not nearly as powerful as a moderate or heavy .45-70

piller, thanks for the info! I'm going to try and pick your brain a tad more here since I had my first .45-70 experiences today and I'm looking for something to compare the .480 to reasonably well.

First up was my Marlin 1895CB with Remington Express 300 grainers. Stout but not painful unless I placed the rifle wrong.

Next was my Buffalo Classic using GOEX Black Dawg 405 grainers. Still not pleasant but not bad (probably since they're BP loads?).

I realize recoil is highly subjective but I'm NOT a recoil junkie. If you (or anyone else) has experience with the two combos above, how does the .480 Puma compare relatively speaking to these two rifle/load combos?

I can't get better if I don't shoot and if I can't enjoy it, shooting does me no good.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:27 pm

I have never fired those combos in a .45-70, but the recoil from my Puma was less than the recoil from 86ers model 86. 86ers had what felt to me like a much better recoil pad than mine and the recoil was not at all painful. I equate my .480 Puma's recoil to that of a 20 gauge slug. If I load the 400 grain hot enough it becomes about like a 12 gauge slug. The factory 325 grain loads are about like a 165 grain factory .30-06.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:30 pm

Ah, OK!

I wear a PAST pad no matter what rifle I'm shooting so that would help anyway but abusive is abusive. I'm not much on slip on recoil pads but I'm not opposed to them if it helps me concentrate on the shot rather than the flinch.

Thanks!

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:48 pm

The Past pad probably would make it rather enjoyable. The factory 325 grain bullets are my 18 year old daughter's favorite. She regularly shoots 40 to 60 shots in a range session when I load it to factory duplicates. Here is a picture of her from Friday night before Prom. As you can see she is about normal size for a teenage female. That is a couch in the background.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:52 pm

Well Hells's Bells! If she can handle it...now I feel like a total wuss!:lol:

BTW, I'm glad I only had boys to raise....

Thanks again!

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:59 pm

She likes the factory loads. The hot loads are a little more than she can handle. I have loaded it to the point once where I pulled the bullets and re-did the loads. Funny, but the accuracy was bad on the really hot loads even before I started flinching. The accuracy is better a little less than factory with the 325 grain bullets.

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:10 pm

piller, as lovely as your daughter is you must keep that 480 setting by the front door.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:34 pm

JMO, but I prefer the .454 Casull to the .480 in a handgun, as it's much more versatile.

There's at least five levels of factory ammo available to those who don't handload:

.45 Colt Cowboy loads

.45 Colt Standard loads

.45 Colt Hi-Performance loads (Buffalo Bore/Cor-Bon/etc)

.454 250gr Winchester JHP's - a mid-range .454 load for deer, etc

.454 260 - 360 gr full-power loads for serious work

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:13 pm

Pete, I thought about that as well but if I need stompers I have the .45-70s and if I don't want abuse I have the .45 Puma.

This would strictly be a "WHOA! What izzat?!?!" type of thing.

Besides, this pic makes it hard to resist...

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:39 pm

I agree, as I have "stompers", too. The loads I use the most in my .454 are the mid-range Winchester 250gr JSP for deer, etc, and standard .45 Colt stuff for plinking, practicing trigger pull & handling.

I've shot a few of the full-bore loads, but never use then, since I have no appropriate animals to use them on, here in New England - and I don't like "penciling" game animals & watching them run off to die in some wetland where I can't track them.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:11 pm

The more I think about it, I think I need to go back and see if the Marlin .44 is still there (safety and all

). Specials to plink and mags would make nice mid-level stompers.

Since I don't reload yet, the .480 just doesn't make sense for me. But the cool factor is off the charts!:lol:

Thanks to all!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu May 22, 2008 7:57 pm

Minor update...

Went back and the Marlin .44 was gone but the .480 was still there only I had misread the price. Turns out it's in the $500 range instead of $600 range.

Father's Day is on the way and I've been told what my limit is. It should cover putting it in layawake until some more fundage comes in.

OTOH, I could go with the Smith Cavalry Carbine instead as a cool/fun rifle...Minor update...

Went back and the Marlin .44 was gone but the .480 was still there only I had misread the price. Turns out it's in the $500 range instead of $600 range.

Father's Day is on the way and I've been told what my limit is. It should cover putting it in layawake until some more fundage comes in.

OTOH, I could go with the Smith Cavalry Carbine instead as a cool/fun rifle... viewtopic.php?t=6877&highlight=

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu May 22, 2008 8:05 pm

The .480 was my 3rd foray into reloading. I started with a .45lc, then a .30-30. I like the .480 because it gets the job done. It is not as powerful as a .45-70, but with 400 grain bullets it is pretty useful. Whatever you get, I hope you have fun with it.

raven5 · Post by **raven5** » Thu May 22, 2008 10:57 pm

I've got a blued .480 and really like the handling of it. I don't reload as of yet, so I can't offer any loading advice of my own, and I don't have a chrony yet so no velocity figures for you.

Not wanting to step on toes or come off as a jerk, but a little clarification. Only the original .475 loads developed by Linebaugh utilized cases with a larger diameter rim than the current .480 Ruger case; all currently produced (if there is an exception I haven't come across someone let me know

) .475 Linebaugh brass and loaded ammo have the smaller rim. The original cases were from cut-down .45-70 cases. Simply trim them to length and off you go. (you can still do this if you want, but not necessary) If using Winchester brand brass no internal neck reaming was necessary either. Obviously these had larger rims.

Since the custom smiths, including Linebaugh himself obviously, had to make 5-shot cylinders to hold this larger case the extra room between chambers afforded plenty of room for the larger diameter rim. Custom brass or factory loadings weren't available yet so all cases came from .45-70 cases.

Up to this point, the .475 was strictly a custom proposition. Freedom Arms finally chambered the .475, but they actually have a smaller cylinder than that of a custom Ruger. The only way the cartridge would fit in the cylinder dimensions was if the rim was turned down slightly. The person who did the legwork and converted Freedom Arm revolvers to the .475 and who was the first to turn down the cartridge rims to fit the recessed and smaller cylinders of the FA guns was Jack Huntington. FA picked it up as standard after he customized theirs. Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, and Hornady jumped on board as well. Long story short, this 'new' smaller rim dimension is now the standard rim diameter of both the .475 Linebaugh, and the slightly shorter .480 Ruger that came later. Any brass or loads you pick up now will have this smaller diameter rim. Also, any .475 will fire the .480; it is sorta a .475 Special.

Ruger was pushing the envelope putting 6 rounds of .480 in the Redhawk cylinder. The Carpenter stainless they used was plenty strong to handle the pressure, but the size of the large rounds meant that the rims actually touch slightly in the cylinder. They do in my Super Redhawk.

Due to the inherent elasticity in the Carpenter stainless (which is part of the reason it handles the higher pressures well) when it would expand with the pressure so would the brass. When it would 'shrink' back to size the brass wouldn't and then you got a sticking issue. Apparently, Hornady's brass has also been found to be slightly softer than some others like Starline so this also didn't help things. I haven't had any sticking issues in mine as of yet, but I haven't loaded or shot any max loads yet either.
Some people had trouble with sticking and some didn't. Sometimes a trip to Ruger and them polishing the chambers really well tended to help or eliminate the problem in some of the guns. Eventually, Ruger temporarily discontinued the 6 shot .480 guns and recently brought them back as 5 shots. The extra steel between chambers reduced some of the elasticity due to the ultra thin chambers before. I've also heard rumor, but can't verify this so I don't know, that the 5 shot cylinders have chambers that are a little 'looser' than the 6 shots. Don't know.

Great round and makes a big hole.

As the saying goes, the 9mm might expand to a bigger caliber; the .45acp already is a bigger caliber. Same can be applied here.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu May 22, 2008 11:54 pm

I sold my 6 shot RSRH when I enlisted in 06. I was planning to buy another until I read the above about the new ones being a 5 shot. However, I did in fact experience the sticky extraction. I was shooting 405gr Kieth style cast at 1150fps. There was lube blowing back into the cylinders, and I would really have to smack the ejector rod to get the cases out. Now I know why. John Linebaugh bobbed that pistol for me, and he said loading down to around 1000fps would help.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri May 23, 2008 2:23 am

Back to the OP:

I think the 460 is the one that can shoot .460, .454, and .45 Colt. I shot the 2" magna ported model loaded with .454's, and that darn thing's like a laser! (a laser with a HELL of a backblast!) Recoil wasn't bad, but it left my innards feeling wierd after shooting only 3 rounds.

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri May 23, 2008 8:48 am

I have been lucky, the only sticking issues in my SRH are with factory Speer nickeled brass case loads. Only Speer does that in mine.
The .460 sounds like a good idea, too. My one question is how well do the bullets hold together at .460 velocities. I don't know much about the bullets designed for it. I am finding that heavy for caliber slow bullets from my .480 have much better penetration than faster bullets. Can the .460 handle 400 grain or larger bullets at 1,000fps or thereabouts?
Sorry if this is off topic for the thread.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri May 23, 2008 9:01 am

Travis Morgan wrote:Back to the OP: .

I thought the OP (did you mean OT?) was concerning a Puma rifle in .480 being able to shoot .45's?

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:40 pm

I gathered that he was trying to figure out which chambering allowed the use of three different cartridges.

raven5 · Post by **raven5** » Fri May 23, 2008 6:45 pm

Here's a .480 rifle question I've had for a while. Why doesn't the .480 experience much of a gain jumping from handgun to rifle that the .45 Colt, .454, .44, and .357 do? Those others, if the test data is to be believed and most is from some very credible members here and on other boards, seem to experience jumps in velocity with the enclosed chamber and longer barrel of the rifle in the neighborhood of 300fps, give or take. Everything I've seen published on the .480 in the rifle shows very little increase. Why the disparity? Are the Pumas' bores maybe slightly oversized for the normal bullet diameters and allowing gas to blow by? Something else here? I've yet to check my bore diameter but I intend to take a chamber casting as well just to check dimensions of my rifle.

Are there powders that in the .480 would better suit the round when fired in a rifle to take advantage of the longer barrel? Just throwing some things out there. Has to be a reason for the low velocity gains. (Not saying I need them, but just curious.)

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri May 23, 2008 9:51 pm

It's voodoo.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri May 23, 2008 9:56 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:It's voodoo.

You remind me of a man.

What man?

A man of hoodoo.

Hoodoo?

You do.

What?

Remind me of a man...

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:24 am

2ndovc wrote:

OK, here's another question...can you actually load through the loading gate?

It looks really small compared to the opening under the tube. The opening under the tube looks like you could fit a .45-70 in there, the loading gate, not so much....

Post by **Hobie** » Sat May 24, 2008 12:53 pm

raven5 wrote:Here's a .480 rifle question I've had for a while. Why doesn't the .480 experience much of a gain jumping from handgun to rifle that the .45 Colt, .454, .44, and .357 do? Those others, if the test data is to be believed and most is from some very credible members here and on other boards, seem to experience jumps in velocity with the enclosed chamber and longer barrel of the rifle in the neighborhood of 300fps, give or take. Everything I've seen published on the .480 in the rifle shows very little increase. Why the disparity? Are the Pumas' bores maybe slightly oversized for the normal bullet diameters and allowing gas to blow by? Something else here? I've yet to check my bore diameter but I intend to take a chamber casting as well just to check dimensions of my rifle.

Are there powders that in the .480 would better suit the round when fired in a rifle to take advantage of the longer barrel? Just throwing some things out there. Has to be a reason for the low velocity gains. (Not saying I need them, but just curious.)

It's not voodoo, it is bore expansion ratio. You see the same thing with the .45 ACP.

raven5 · Post by **raven5** » Sat May 24, 2008 2:45 pm

Hobie,

Could you elaborate a little? (or a lot

) Never heard much on the subject.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat May 24, 2008 3:20 pm

Well, I'm not up to an article and frankly the mathematics bores me. Oh yeah, there's math involved if you want to calculate rather than deal with it intuitively. Basically, the expansion ratio in a gun is the ratio of the total volume of the bore and cartridge case combined to the volume in the powder chamber of the case alone before the bullet starts to move forward. Bigger bores with smaller chambers allow the pressure to drop more rapidly lowering the velocity differences between longer and shorter bores.

BTW, the same thing happens in internal combustion engines of which one might think a gun is a type. The primary difference is that the bullet (piston) doesn't act on a crank shaft and isn't captured or returned to do more work.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun May 25, 2008 7:27 pm

You can load through the loading gate. In fact, you can get 1 more round in that way than loading through the cutout on the magazine tube. No, I don't know why it was made that way, but the tube is long enough that the spring compressed beyond the cutout point. As far as the little gain in the carbine, yes, as Hobie pointed out, it doesn't gain much due to the large diameter. The typical powders useful for the .480 in handguns burn up within about the 7Â½ inches of the barrel of the Super RedHawk. I have found that with IMR 4227 that I can gain 225 fps out of the carbine. You need to use the slowest burning powder available to you for this to happen.