POLITICS -I don't trust dopers any more than child molesters

[ScottT]

Possible Wal-Mart shooting spree averted, police say
Former employee found in South Austin store with gun, ammunition, police say.
By Tony Plohetski
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Tuesday, May 06, 2008

Austin police officers James Cartier and Joe Hernandez said they took one look at the letter Edward Eberle had written to his wife Thursday and got worried.

Eberle wrote that he had "chosen a life in prison" and told his wife farewell, according to an arrest affidavit obtained Monday. He asked her to return his library book and encouraged her to "sell any story you want to tell to the highest bidder." By then, he also had sent a text message to his sister, telling her to turn on her television.

"It was very alarming to me," Hernandez said. "I believed something catastrophic was going to happen, to the point of many lives being lost."

Cartier said it was apparent to him that the letter was not a suicide note, but was instead a message about an intention to hurt others. Within an hour, police said they had surrounded a South Austin Wal-Mart, where Eberle had worked until he was fired in March. They arrested him near the entrance to the store and said he was carrying a 9 mm handgun and "an unreasonable amount of ammunition."

Eberle has been charged with making a terroristic threat and carrying a weapon in a place licensed to sell alcohol. Both are third-degree felonies; if convicted, Eberle could face up to 10 years in prison on each count. He and his family could not be reached Monday.

Police Chief Art Acevedo called Eberle a potential "mass homicide suspect" and said work by officers had helped avert injury or death to customers and employees.

"But for the actions of this team, we would have had a tragedy," Acevedo said.

Police said Eberle was upset that he had been fired and about the loss of insurance through the company. According to arrest affidavits, Eberle had worked at the Wal-Mart at 9300 Interstate 35 South near Slaughter Lane from September until March, but was unable to keep his job because of ongoing pain.

On Thursday, Eberle sent his sister a text message at about 10:30 a.m. telling her that he loved her, but that he didn't want any visitors or letters, according to affidavits. He sent her another text message at 1:13 p.m. that said, "Turn yer tv's on!"

Eberle's wife called 911 at about 3 p.m. after she found a note from him saying, "I have chosen a life in prison. ... I'll try to die soon. Please return my library book and walk Cassie," the affidavit said. She also told police that Eberle owns

a gun, which she thought he had taken.

Austin police Sgt. Brian Miller said he and four other officers arrived at the Wal-Mart about an hour after Eberle's wife alerted police, giving time for Cartier and Hernandez to verify the existence of the letter and to get a description of Eberle. Miller said some officers blocked the entrances and exits to the store; others began searching for Eberle inside.

He said that officer Randy Stachewicz got a report that Eberle had just headed toward the pharmacy department and alerted other officers of his whereabouts. Just before 5 p.m., officer Jonathan LaBorde spotted Eberle near the entrance, leaning on a vending machine, Miller said.

He said Eberle went back inside, at which time Stachewicz knocked him to the ground as other officers swooped around him.

On Monday, the officers received a commendation from Acevedo at a news conference.

tplohetski@statesman.com; 445-3605

[ScottT]

This thing was carrying 60 rounds of ammo. Kudos to the wife for turning him in and kudos to the police for averting a tragedy.

He was despondent over his insurance coverage running out on the methadone he was taking:

According to Travis County court documents, police say Richard Eberle, 52, of Austin, left the note for his wife last Thursday, telling her not to call police and sell her story to the highest bidder after what he was about to do.

"This is again an illustration of day in and day out what the Austin Police Department does to keep us safe," says Chief Art Acevedo. "We are one call away from a tragedy."

"He was coherent. He was very upset. He was taking prescription Methodone for an extended period of time. He was very distraught. He didn't have insurance to pay for the prescription medication anymore," said Det. Mason Feinartz.

Court documents say Lynn Eberle did call police and at approximately 5:00 p.m. Thursday, May 1, Richard Eberle was arrested at the entrance of the Southpark Meadows Wal-Mart, where police say he'd been fired in March for not showing up to work.

"It's important to note that this suspect was armed with a semi-automatic handgun, fully-loaded with a round in the chamber. He had an additional magazine with him, an ammunition clip and a total of 60 rounds of ammunition," Acevedo says.

Police say the Wal-Mart was occupied with "numerous patrons and employees" at the time.

"It was very alarming. I believe it was going to be very catastrophic to the point where many lives would be in danger as the result of his actions," said Officer Joe Hernandez, who, with his partner, responded to Eberle's wife's initial call for help.

For those of you who do not know, Methadone is an opioid, a narcotic drug, that was developed over fifty years ago to treat patients with heroin addiction.

[Hagler]

This thing was carrying 60 rounds of ammo.

...yeah, so what? Would 30 have been better? Maybe 600? How about just two, which is one less than three?

Shawn

[ScottT]

This thing was carrying 60 rounds of ammo.

...yeah, so what? Would 30 have been better? Maybe 600? How about just two, which is one less than three?

Shawn

Think about how ridiculous your post is Shawn:

If your wife and child had been in that Wal Mart and the police had not stopped this guy, would you prefer that he had 2 rounds or 60 rounds to do the damage he planned?

It wasn't what a normal person would carry on his person. He was not eligible for a CCW with being a heroin addict. Why was he carrying 60 rounds of ammo? We can only speculate, but I think it is safe to say that if he intended to use 60 rounds, he was probably planning on doing something rather destructive.

While I don't care how many rounds a police officer or licensed individual might carry on him at any given time, and I personally am carrying a pistol and 10 rounds on me right now, 60 rounds is indicative of motive.

[J Miller]

From what I read in the article, the mans intension was to get himself arrested. I'm not convinced he was going to actually go on a killing spree, but by knowingly carrying a gun into a prohibited place he knew what he was doing would get him sent to prison. From the article he was just wandering around, making himself seen. Had he intended to start killing he had plenty of time to do it.

That's my take on it.

As for how much ammo he had on him, since when did a mere 60 rounds become unreasonable? I carry more than that when ever I'm out and about with my guns.

At any rate I do believe that in this case all parties, the wife, the sister and especially the police handled it well. No casualties, no deaths, just a good take down.

Two thumbs up for the Austin Police Dept.

Joe

[El Mac]

Scott, you should know better than to let reason, logic and rational thought get in the way of the tin foil.

Good job APD for diverting what was about to occur and once again make law abiding gun owners have to go on the defensive.

[Slick13]

For those of you who do not know, Methadone is an opioid, a narcotic drug, that was developed over fifty years ago to treat patients with heroin addiction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone

"Methadone is also used in managing chronic pain due to its long duration of action and very low cost."

So, we don't know if the man was a dope fiend, or suffering from chronic pain. He made a poor choice though, and it's good to hear his family reacted quickly.

~Michael

[Hagler]

Scott,

If the man was carrying one baseball bat, or two, or 200, what would his motive be? Think about carrying around a brick of .22LR ammo: there are at least 325 rounds in some of them. Is that "unreasonable? ...how about driving around town, with no particular destination, with 27 gallons of gas in the tank? What do you mean by "licensened individual"? None of this has been proven in a court of law, yet. Even if it gets that far, the reports that you posted are a hachet-job, written with sensationalism in mind, at best. ...not that "proving" anything in court makes it right.

Does carrying just 10 rounds make you any better than anyone else? If I carry two ten-round magazine, what is my motive?

Shawn

[Rexster]

Some of y'all are missing the point. He advised his family to turn on the television. That indicates (to me) that he wanted to do something worthy of media attention, that would cause an interruption of regular programming, for a special report. No, there is nothing evil about sixty rounds of ammo, in and of itself, but his actions and words indicated evil might be about to occur, and the ammo quantity is an indicator of just how much evil he was contemplating. Nothing more, nothing less. The ammo does not increase or decrease the level of the charge, or the amount of his bond.

Yes, good job by APD! And, I agree, never trust a doper. Whether the doper got that way from pain or hedonism, once the addiction is in charge of their lives, I will not trust them.

[Hillbilly]

I think the problem becomes apparent when he texts home to have the kinfolks "turn on the tv"

The fact he was totin all the bullets would not be an issue if he got caught.

Put it all together and you have a legal basis to point a finger at motive.

Good job Austin PD...this guy wanted a cop assisted suicide at the least. Maybe he will stand trial or get the help he needs now.

Tennessee used to have a charge for "intent to go armed"... that old law, in laymans terms, made it illegal to pack if you were upset or agitated in some fashion... if a person followed that law and left his arms packed up in an agitated state his actions could squash "motive"

Hill

[Old Ironsights]

...While I don't care how many rounds a police officer or licensed individual might carry on him at any given time, and I personally am carrying a pistol and 10 rounds on me right now, 60 rounds is indicative of motive.

And for not a few people with arrest/lawmaking powers, carrying any gun at all is "indicative of motive".

Are you sure we want to go that route?

In this case, the messages were plenty to indicate motive. WHat does his possession of ANYTHING have to do with it? stuff, he was in a WAL MART. They sell all kinds of dangerous stuff there. Even without a Gun Counter a dedicated person can cause mass deaths and hysteria with off the shelf implements.

By focusing on the Weapon and Quantity of Ammunition rather than the CRIMINAL INTENT/INDIVIDUAL, the media - and you - are doing Gunowners a disservice.

[ScottT]

Scott,

If the man was carrying one baseball bat, or two, or 200, what would his motive be? Think about carrying around a brick of .22LR ammo: there are at least 325 rounds in some of them. Is that "unreasonable? ...how about driving around town, with no particular destination, with 27 gallons of gas in the tank? What do you mean by "licensened individual"? None of this has been proven in a court of law, yet. Even if it gets that far, the reports that you posted are a hachet-job, written with sensationalism in mind, at best. ...not that "proving" anything in court makes it right.

Does carrying just 10 rounds make you any better than anyone else? If I carry two ten-round magazine, what is my motive?

Shawn

Again, under these circumstances, I think it would be unreasonable to carry 60 rounds of 9mm ammo on one's person to wander about in Wal Mart. Any comparison to baseball bats, bricks of .22 ammo and the like are simply not logical.

Here is why:

Imagine anyone who even could carry 200 baseball bats? Again, going off into the ridiculous.

Now, let's take on the brick of .22 ammo: If I am headed to the ranch for the weekend or headed to the range, or in my truck at any time, it is probably reasonable to carry a brick of .22 ammo, and I do. However, if I make threats, tell my family to watch the tv, load up my .22 pistol and carry it with me as I wander around Wal Mart and have an additional 325 rounds on my person as I do so, is that reasonable? Or is it indicative that I intended to shoot a lot? Again, going off into the ridiculous.

60 rounds or 100 rounds or 1000 rounds in and of itself is not indicative of anything. But under these circumstances?

[shooter]

I sort of agree. It is not necessarily his carrying a gun and how much ammo he had, but his previous behavior and stated intent on being arrested. I do tend to think that 60 rounds is a little excessive, but who am I to say? If someone with a CCW was carrying that much ammo I would think it strange but would not fault them for it, nor think that they had an alterior motive. This guy was a nutjob, and was clearly intent on being arrested one way or another.

Congrats to the family and PD for acting swiftly so that tragedy was averted.

[El Mac]

Some of y'all are missing the point. He advised his family to turn on the television. That indicates (to me) that he wanted to do something worthy of media attention, that would cause an interruption of regular programming, for a special report. No, there is nothing evil about sixty rounds of ammo, in and of itself, but his actions and words indicated evil might be about to occur, and the ammo quantity is an indicator of just how much evil he was contemplating. Nothing more, nothing less. The ammo does not increase or decrease the level of the charge, or the amount of his bond.

Yes, good job by APD! And, I agree, never trust a doper. Whether the doper got that way from pain or hedonism, once the addiction is in charge of their lives, I will not trust them.

Exactly.

[ScottT]

...While I don't care how many rounds a police officer or licensed individual might carry on him at any given time, and I personally am carrying a pistol and 10 rounds on me right now, 60 rounds is indicative of motive.

And for not a few people with arrest/lawmaking powers, carrying any gun at all is "indicative of motive".

Are you sure we want to go that route?

In this case, the messages were plenty to indicate motive. WHat does his possession of ANYTHING have to do with it? stuff, he was in a WAL MART. They sell all kinds of dangerous stuff there. Even without a Gun Counter a dedicated person can cause mass deaths and hysteria with off the shelf implements.

By focusing on the Weapon and Quantity of Ammunition rather than the CRIMINAL INTENT/INDIVIDUAL, the media - and you - are doing Gunowners a disservice.

Not at all, we do it all the time. It does not, in this particular circumstance change what he will be charged with, but let me give you an example:

If you are caught with narcotics that are more than would normally be used by one person, you are commonly charged with possession with the intent to distribute those narcotics. In that case, the punishment is enhanced.

In this case, it goes to motive. Now, think about the position you are taking. Do you actually carry 60 rounds of ammo on you when you walk around in Wal Mart? I'll bet you would have a hard time convincing a jury that you do.

Here is a photo of our friend:

[Blaine]

Scott, you should know better than to let reason, logic and rational thought get in the way of the tin foil.
Good job APD for diverting what was about to occur and once again make law abiding gun owners have to go on the defensive.

Come on, El Mac...don't be a rude brown noser......There are all sort of things we prolly don't know about this.

I'm personally on a pain contract with VA, I take a small dose of HydroCodone every evening.. and you are invited anytime to call me no good Child Molester, you closed minded clown. I've just about had it with some of the pin head, tight arsed, and Hypocritical views around these here parts.

[Old Ironsights]

...While I don't care how many rounds a police officer or licensed individual might carry on him at any given time, and I personally am carrying a pistol and 10 rounds on me right now, 60 rounds is indicative of motive.

And for not a few people with arrest/lawmaking powers, carrying any gun at all is "indicative of motive".

Are you sure we want to go that route?

In this case, the messages were plenty to indicate motive. WHat does his possession of ANYTHING have to do with it? stuff, he was in a WAL MART. They sell all kinds of dangerous stuff there. Even without a Gun Counter a dedicated person can cause mass deaths and hysteria with off the shelf implements.

By focusing on the Weapon and Quantity of Ammunition rather than the CRIMINAL INTENT/INDIVIDUAL, the media - and you - are doing Gunowners a disservice.

Not at all, we do it all the time.

That is sad and somewhat frightening. It sets a bad precedent that the Antis are more than happy to use.

It does not, in this particular circumstance change what he will be charged with,

I'm cool with that, so why is it being discussed at all?

but let me give you an example:

If you are caught with narcotics that are more than would normally be used by one person, you are commonly charged with possession with the intent to distribute those narcotics. In that case, the punishment is enhanced.

Not talking about Narcotics, Steroids or any other type of drug I haven't been prescribed... though I have been known to be in possession of a 3 month's supply (a VERY "sellable" quantity) of Schedule "A"s before I take them home to my wife's medicine cabinet.

In this case, it goes to motive. Now, think about the position you are taking. Do you actually carry 60 rounds of ammo on you when you walk around in Wal Mart? I'll bet you would have a hard time convincing a jury that you do.

When I had a Hi Cap I was known to - if infrequently. Though generally my "basic load" is 30 rounds and 2 guns. What does that indicate (other than the realization that sometimes a BUG is needed.)

And, as I said, many people consider OWNING (much less carrying) a gun to be "indicative" of mal intent/motive(s).

Edit: What does his picture have to do with it? Is this an attempt to prejudice the Jury, Counselor?

[ScottT]

Tubby,

Are you going to shoot up a WalMart?

Have you left a note for your family?

Did you tell them to watch the TV?

Do you carry 60 rounds of ammo when you go to WalMart?

Come on now. You know better. This has nothing to do with you and we were blissfully ignorant of your medical condition before you brought it up.

[Rexster]

I don't think anyone who is on pain meds, but is still in charge of their lives, meets the "doper" criteria. Let's not let absolutism get us all riled up.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

His shirt says "Austin LSD ?". I wish I could read the rest.

[Old Ironsights]

...Come on now. You know better. This has nothing to do with you and we were blissfully ignorant of your medical condition before you brought it up.

I read the statement about methadone as a blanket condemnation of those who use the product as all being ex Smack heads - which is demonstrably untrue.

And whether or not he was ACTUALLY going to shoot anything up or not is still, as I read the media reports, supposition based upon hearsay.

Good call to check him out, but since he COMMTTED no act of violence, you annot PROVE he intended to do more than what happened - i.e. frightenening enough people to get him arrested... and on TV.

[GANJIRO]

Does that Wal-Mart sell ammo? Could he have bought a 50 round box at the time at that Wal-Mart? Would possessing Wal-Mart merchandise in a Wal-Mart store be a crime? Take it easy, I'm just thinking out loud.

[El Mac]

Scott, you should know better than to let reason, logic and rational thought get in the way of the tin foil.
Good job APD for diverting what was about to occur and once again make law abiding gun owners have to go on the defensive.

Come on, El Mac...don't be a rude brown noser......There are all sort of things we prolly don't know about this.

Brown noser? Thats kinda funny if it weren't so pathetic.

I'm personally on a pain contract with VA, I take a small dose of HydroCodone every evening.. and you are invited anytime to call me no good Child Molester, you closed minded clown. I've just about had it with some of the pin head, tight arsed, and Hypocritical views around these here parts.

Blaine, sorry about your illness. I never said anything about your medical condition. Nor did I call you no good Child Molester. But I'll take your close minded clown handle and wear it with pride if that makes you happy pal. Better that than what you got cooking.

[Blaine]

Tubby,

Are you going to shoot up a WalMart?

Have you left a note for your family?

Did you tell them to watch the TV?

Do you carry 60 rounds of ammo when you go to WalMart?

Come on now. You know better. This has nothing to do with you and we were blissfully ignorant of your medical condition before you brought it up.

NoSir, I don't know better. This guy screwed up bad. He is liable. But, what I do see, though, is someone who was trying to work a job and rehab off H or handle chronic pain. I'm not a professional, but I can only imagine having to be yanked off a powerful drug like that. For the record, I don't hide my chronic pain; I've mentioned it here before in defense of persons on prescribed narcotics. FWIW, a strong drug like I take in small doses causes zero side affects or "high", but if I were not given a chance to wean off, it would be uncomfortable to say the least, if I had to give it up. I work an active full time job and have an active sportsmen's and motorcycle lifestyle, none of which would be possible without this great gift........From the lofty position you always place yourself, I'd think you could see the whole person before passing judgement, Sir.

[Blaine]

Scott, you should know better than to let reason, logic and rational thought get in the way of the tin foil.
Good job APD for diverting what was about to occur and once again make law abiding gun owners have to go on the defensive.

Come on, El Mac...don't be a rude brown noser......There are all sort of things we prolly don't know about this.

Brown noser? Thats kinda funny if it weren't so pathetic.

I'm personally on a pain contract with VA, I take a small dose of HydroCodone every evening.. and you are invited anytime to call me no good Child Molester, you closed minded clown. I've just about had it with some of the pin head, tight arsed, and Hypocritical views around these here parts.

Blaine, sorry about your illness. I never said anything about your medical condition. Nor did I call you no good Child Molester. But I'll take your close minded clown handle and wear it with pride if that makes you happy pal. Better that than what you got cooking.

Whatever, fella........Rest your concern, I'm perfectly healthy and not Ill.
Actually, you are correct to an extent....I presumed facts about you the way you presume facts about others...right? And Sorry. BTW, everytime you disagree with someone, you bring out the TinFoilHat jibe.....THAT upset me off.

[pricecw]

Does that Wal-Mart sell ammo? Could he have bought a 50 round box at the time at that Wal-Mart? Would possessing Wal-Mart merchandise in a Wal-Mart store be a crime? Take it easy, I'm just thinking out loud.

WRT the 60 rnds. Most of the 9mm I have looked at recently have 15-19rnd magazines right? So that is 3-4 mags. In the shoulder rig I have for my 40, it has a 2mag pouch under the shoulder opposite the pistol, 1 mag pouch on the holster, 1 mag in the pistol. Why is it surprising that there was 60rnds?

[deerwhacker444]

Whoa Whoa...everybody take a deep breath and relax a bit...

DEEP BREATH..!

[Andrew]

Well, he certainly is very stupid.

I am sorry, but there are a lot of things that cannot be proved based only on the facts we get from the article.

I've had cronic pain and know what it's like, but, you can't tell for sure what people are doing with their prescribed drugs.

60rnds is a large amount, but, who is to say it's an "unreasonable" amount?

He made his family believe he was going to do something big enough to get on TV, but that doesn't prove anything specific.

He didn't seem to have much of a value put on his own life. That's not very comforting to know.

Idiot loser? Probably. Homicidal doper? Hell, I don't know.

[model55]

Did I screw up and end up on another forum?I don't think any of us can say what real happened and I for one take any thing in the Media with a grain of salt.When did we start slamming one another here and what if anything is it going to prove .Flame away or let it rest.Just my .02

[FWiedner]

Lotta pre-judgement going on here.

From what I read here, this guy was on a legal regimen of heavy-duty narcotics for some as yet undefined reason, lost his job, lost his insurance, and lost his "ride".

He apparently made a reasoned decision and weighed the possible consequences of his actions in formulating a method of getting the "treatment" that he needs. He correctly surmised that if he were in the "care" of the state, he would have complementary access to "treatment".

I have not read within the outline of the situation where he either planned, nor that he intended to hurt anyone. He planned and announced his intent to create a situation that would in his estimation get him either arrested or killed.

A guy with a painful habit and unable to get satisfaction found the shortest path from point A to point B. Nobody hurt and he's in custody and will get what he wants.

Sounds like a happy ending to me.

[ursavus.elemensis]

Scott, would He call the suspect a "doper" without knowing the facts? I don't think so.

Should a lawyer insist that someone is guilty because the news media said so? I don't think so.

[RSY]

He correctly surmised that if he were in the "care" of the state, he would have complimentary access to "treatment".

BINGO!!!

[Ysabel Kid]

He correctly surmised that if he were in the "care" of the state, he would have complimentary access to "treatment".

BINGO!!!

+1

There is an old saying in law enforcement - if something walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck. This guy stated his intention - he wanted to spend the rest of his life in jail (again, free access to pain medication). I don't know if he just wanted to be arrested and laid out the evidence clearly or if he really wanted to kill a bunch of people before getting arrested. I don't actually care what his intent was on that point. The LEO's involved made sure it didn't happen, and they all deserve a pat on the back for a job well done. This is what LEO's dream of - being able to actually prevent a crime rather than just having to clean up the mess afterwards. Good day for the good guys in my book!

Don't want to touch the rest of this with a ten-foot pole. I didn't get onto the forum tonight until 11:45pm due to work - just too bone tired to argue with my friends... Remember guys, we are all on the same side here!

[Jeeps]

Sounds like a spin on the "cop assisted suicide" to me.

"State assisted medication" he is either dumb as heck or smart as a fox.

Just please don't fall for the 60 rounds thing, bad road to go down. Why should any
person own more than 50 rounds of ammo, when you get done shooting your
50 go back to the store and buy more, sounds good right?

Why would people need to manufacture ammo in their homes?

Silly questions usually give you answers you won't like.

[Jeeps]

Lotta pre-judgement going on here.

From what I read here, this guy was on a legal regimen of heavy-duty narcotics for some as yet undefined reason, lost his job, lost his insurance, and lost his "ride".

He apparently made a reasoned decision and weighed the possible consequences of his actions in formulating a method of getting the "treatment" that he needs. He correctly surmised that if he were in the "care" of the state, he would have complementary access to "treatment".

I have not read within the outline of the situation where he either planned, nor that he intended to hurt anyone. He planned and announced his intent to create a situation that would in his estimation get him either arrested or killed.

A guy with a painful habit and unable to get satisfaction found the shortest path from point A to point B. Nobody hurt and he's in custody and will get what he wants.

Sounds like a happy ending to me.

Oyea, I forgot to "+1" this post.

[Old Ironsights]

...Just please don't fall for the 60 rounds thing, bad road to go down. Why should any person own more than 50 rounds of ammo, when you get done shooting your 50 go back to the store and buy more, sounds good right?

Why would people need to manufacture ammo in their homes?

Silly questions usually give you answers you won't like.

+1

My point all along.

[sore shoulder]

Proudly clinging to my 60 rounds and my tin foil hat.

[piller]

As a Pharmacist, I can tell you that there is a lot more to being prescribed methadone than simply to treat addiction. In fact, to treat addiction with it, a Doctor has to be certified and go through training for it. The Doctor also gets a specially numbered DEA license number. Almost any Doctor can prescribe it for chronic pain here in Texas. There are 2 or 3 schools of thought about whether or not a Doctor should be a pain relief specialist to prescribe Methadone. Without knowing any more than Ted Kennedy's HIPAA law will allow about the patient's condition, I must base my opinion on his actions and words. Simply based on actions and words, I think the Austin Police did the right thing. No one has the right to tell someone else to watch on TV with the intent that they are seen to commit a crime.

[Hagler]

Scott T,

Are you done with your presentation? Is this moot over?

Shawn

[ScottT]

Scott T,

Are you done with your presentation? Is this moot over?

Shawn

What else is there to say?

You have your opinion and I have mine. I am quite comfortable with that.

[El Chivo]

Good intervention by the police.

But it sounds to me like his being a "doper" had nothing to do with the impending disaster.

He was upset over being fired, right? And having things go wrong in his life? And methadone is a maintenance drug, it doesn't even get you high.

Why not say "I don't trust Gun Owners with beards"?

Scott I think you're just frustrated you didn't get to save the day yourself by ramming your truck into him.

Dopers usually destroy themselves, rarely other people (unless you count family members who care for them).

[handirifle]

I'm not sure what's scaryier, him, and his PLANNED actions, or those that are DEFENDING them.

Good grief!

Kudo's to his wife and the quick acting cops. May he get his wish, or both of them, to spend his life in jail or die soon.

Good riddance.

[Old Ironsights]

There is a difference between defining his actions in a way that is every bit or more legitimate than declaring him to be a doper and defending him.

I do not believe anyone is defending his actions.

We ARE, however, disturbed by unsubstantiated prejudicial commentary ("doper") and the insane focus on his possessing "EVIL" quantities of ammunition.

Both/either theoretical explanations for his actions could be accurate.

Both/either theoretical explanations for his actions necessitated the given Police Response.

But NEITHER theoretical explanations for his actions are sufficient to declare the mere possession of a firearm and quantity of ammunition to be indicative of anything - especially since he DIDN'T blast his way to hell when confronted by police.

Doesn't sound like much of a mass murder/death wish to me... unless, as the Left is wont to believe, anyone who carries a gun & ammo has a malicious death wish.

[ScottT]

Good intervention by the police.

But it sounds to me like his being a "doper" had nothing to do with the impending disaster.

He was upset over being fired, right? And having things go wrong in his life? And methadone is a maintenance drug, it doesn't even get you high.

Why not say "I don't trust Gun Owners with beards"?

Scott I think you're just frustrated you didn't get to save the day yourself by ramming your truck into him.

Dopers usually destroy themselves, rarely other people (unless you count family members who care for them).

Where to start?

I am a gun owner with a beard.

I have never rammed my truck into anyone and I resent your insinuation that I woud want to do violent things to anyone.

I feel sorry for the families of those who prey upon them.

I also feel sorry for victims of crimes committed by dope fiends and I don't think you know what you are talking about when there are many families who lost loved ones to a doper with a gun or a doper behind the wheel.

[Old Ironsights]

ScottT: Please explain to me why you think he was a Doper.

He had a prescription for methadone.

There are only 2 reasons for Methadone Prescriptions:

(1) Pain Management

(2) Addiction recovery.

As CORPORATE POLICY He could NEVER have been an employee of Wal Mart under Condition #2 because he would have been FIRED long before he was prescribed the Methadone.

Alcohol and Illegal Drugs. Wal-Mart is committed to maintaining a drug-free work place. Providing associates with safe, healthful, and efficient working conditions is of vital interest to Wal-Mart. Being under the influence of alcohol or a drug on the job or while performing company business poses serious safety and health risks, not only to the user, but to all those who work with or come into contact with the user. In addition, those who abuse drugs often experience one or more of the following: work related accidents, low productivity, absenteeism, theft, and tardiness.

Wal-Mart requires all prospective associates (management and hourly) to be drug screened, where state and federal laws apply, as part of the pre-employment selection process. Any applicant who tests positive for illegal drug use will not be hired. Furthermore, where state and federal laws permit, associates may be required to submit to drug testing:

prior to receiving a promotion from an hourly to a management position;

following an on-the-job accident;

where there is a reasonable basis to suspect the associate is under the influence of alcohol or drugs or is in violation of the Company Policy.

http://members.aol.com/vtpa/wmethics.html

i.e. the minute an employee comes under treatment for Heroin addiction he would have been inelegible to work at Wal Mart - and that is NOT the situation as described.

Therefore, the most likely scenerio for his methadone use was as prescribed for pain and therefore not a violation of company policy - as demonstrated by his employment by Wal Mart WHILE taking methadone - NOR is he deserving of the epethet of "doper".

It's not like he was out Raging around on unprescribed 'roids and capping people.

[ScottT]

It's not like he was out Raging around on unprescribed 'roids and capping people.

For those of you who do not know what is going on here, this is an attempt at character assasination. Perhaps it is time to get this out in the open.

Most of my friends here, and certainly all of the Shootists know that I was once a police officer in Houston. During my tour there, I had to shoot 4 men in the line of duty, three of them fatally. The 1980s were pretty turbulent in that part of the world and this was not an uncommon thing.

In 1989, I was involved in a gunfight that started as a traffic stop. When I approached the car, there was a gun on the seat and the driver went for it though I repeatedly told him not to. I had to kill him to preserve my life. I feel real bad about that, but it was something I was forced to do.

Unfortunately for me, there was another shooting that preceeded mine by a couple of weeks wherein the officers involved were drunk and off duty. The two shootings became linked up in the politics of the moment as Representitive Mickey Leland had been killed in a plane crash and all of the black politicians were vying for his congressional seat. I guess my shooting was not as sexy as some of the politicos needed and so there arose certain allegations, none of which were true.

It was alleged that I stood over the body and pumped rounds into the driver "execution style." That did not fly because of the positioning of the body and the positioning of the ejected cases.

It was alleged that I planted the gun on the driver. But that did not fly because the gun belonged to his employer.

Finally it was alleged that I was using steroids and that I shot the guy in a steroid-induced rage. That did not fly either, because we did immediate drug testing and hair samples that showed that I was not on anything, but also that I had not been on anything.

I have never taken an illegal drug in my life. Yet, you have guys like this Old Ironsights who come out from under the woodwork to try to impune my good name.

Why? Have I wronged him here or elsewhere? Who knows?

I was there. I told the same thing to the Homicide detectives, the DA, to IAD, to the FBI, to the Grand Jury, to Baylor Law School, to the State Bar, to my Masonic Lodge, to the Shootists and now to you.

Nothing has changed. I have been investigated in every way possible by each and every entity, and the results always come out the same. The evidence does not lie.

I did not pin on the badge to hurt anyone, but to help those who could not help themselves. To stand up for folks who were victims of criminals. To this day, I will not defend a criminal in the courtroom. I am on the other side of the fence and will always be.

If you don't like me....feel that way for something I said or did, but don't hide behind a screen name and take pot shots at my good name.

Scott Tschirhart

[Griff]

I've stayed outta this fray as I probably don't have anything positive to contribute.

But, I think ScottT is on the money here... and the reasons I feel this way are based mostly on my experience, knowledge and logical conclusions of a somewhat rational person, (in that any of us are). Any of which could be wrong.

1st and foremost: The way I read the initial post and article was in NO way directed at any forum member or their specific circumstances. Some of ya'll are just either overly-sensitive or have more to hide than the rest of us.

2: Methadone is a legal narcotic, favored by the rehab crowd as it allows most herion addicts to function in a somewhat normal fashion without most of the side affects of withdrawals and any of the "high" associated with herion. See: Methadone Fact Sheet

3: It is a completely understandable conclusion that the subject of the article is a recovering herion addict. And, having been in the presence of a herion addict during their attempts to shake the addiction "cold turkey", I wouldn't wish that agony on anyone. Well, yes I would, the person that supplied the individual the drug and fostered their addiction.

4: The presence of the note and the phone/text msg to his family make it a reasonable assumption that the subject of the article is in an unstable frame of mind, that plus the fact that he is armed (illegally, may I remind you), make it certainly reasonable that the police conducted themselves as they did; averting a potential diasaster. The fact that he was taken into custody without harm to him, the officers or other innocent bystanders speaks to their well-trained and competent methodology. And, as the elements of the crime are present, "terroristic threats" is a crime in TX. So, if you feel the need to act in such a manner and DON'T want to end up in jail, don't come to TX.

5: If the subject of the article was in the process of attempting to "kick" his herion addiction with the sponsored use of methadone I can laude his attempt, yet, his reaction to stress inducers was wholly inappropriate.

6: If the article had clearly stated that the subject's use of methadone was unrelated to an addiction to herion; (which is it's MOST common usage and is a conclusion most anyone with ANY exposure to that sub-culture would jump to), I don't think we'd be having this discussion. Maybe, just maybe, the article's failure to cut-off that line of thought is quite telling.

7: I also researched and found the following, which somewhat disputes my conclusion, but before I started this, I had NO knowledge of. Methadone Addiction, Detox, Treatment and Withdrawal states that methadone can and is used solely as a pain treatment when morphine dosage increases are not advised due to side affects, yet goes on to describe the difficulties and problems associated with its use in this capacity.

So, if you feel you must, flame away.

[Andrew]

Griff said it very well. Thank you.

[El Mac]

Griff is once again, on the money. Thanks for your salient post...

[rjohns94]

I have no dog in this race, and I am all for supporting the constitution, but in this case, I am compelled to speak up in support of the side of ScottT and Griff and those others on that side. I am so glad this guy didn't have a chance to make the news discharging those 60 rounds into those folks at wal-mart. We have seen too often that notes and hints of pending doom, gone unnoticed, have caused innocents bodily injury or death. I am appalled at how low some are willing to go in personal attacks during the course of open discussion. I thought this forum was above this.
Now here is your chance at taking shots at me for supporting the side I do.