What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
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What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Not trying to be a smart aleck or anything but I don't know much about the caliber in practical terms.
The reason I ask is my nephew traded into one and he isn't sure he or his wife wants it and wondered if I might like to buy it from him. I'm not sure I need or want it but I'm open minded enough to let someone convince me I can't go another day without one.
I believe it is a Connecticut gun.
Wm.
The reason I ask is my nephew traded into one and he isn't sure he or his wife wants it and wondered if I might like to buy it from him. I'm not sure I need or want it but I'm open minded enough to let someone convince me I can't go another day without one.
I believe it is a Connecticut gun.
Wm.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Nothing, it has a belt so it is lacking some where and needs support.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Ahhr, 450marlin, the answer to the question no one asked!
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Versus a 45-70, it is sort of like a 32 H&R vs. a 32-20 Win. Straighter case, a bit shorter, standardized loads, no older, weaker guns to blow up accidentally, but ballistically the same as you get with the older cartridge in a modern gun with a modern load.
Nothing wrong with one though; if you like the idea of a Marlin Guide Gun, it would fill the role.
Brass might be a bit more scarce, but buy five hundred and you'll probably never need more.
Nothing wrong with one though; if you like the idea of a Marlin Guide Gun, it would fill the role.
Brass might be a bit more scarce, but buy five hundred and you'll probably never need more.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
.
I had been shooting & hunting with several different .45-70 rifles for about 35 years when the .450 Marlin was introduced.
I thought the cartridge interesting, and so bought a new .450 Winchester BigBore94 Timber when it was first introduced.
I only used it for a single season, and found out that, compared to .45-70 rifles, I was disappointed.
IME the .45-70 cartridge is more flexible in it's loadings than the .450 Marlin cartridge - especially for someone who handloads.
IMO, the .450 Marlin was introduced for use by non-handloading shooters/hunters that wanted more performance from a .45 than standard .45-70 commercial offerings.
Most repeating .45-70 rifles are heavier guns (like a Winchester 1886/86) than I like to tote around, but the Marlin 336/1895's in .45-70 are the same weight as the .450 chambering - a much more manageable weight for me (YMMV).
Since your nephew has already bought it, I would suggest trying to see if he'll let you shoot it first, so you can form your own impression of it.
.
I had been shooting & hunting with several different .45-70 rifles for about 35 years when the .450 Marlin was introduced.
I thought the cartridge interesting, and so bought a new .450 Winchester BigBore94 Timber when it was first introduced.
I only used it for a single season, and found out that, compared to .45-70 rifles, I was disappointed.
IME the .45-70 cartridge is more flexible in it's loadings than the .450 Marlin cartridge - especially for someone who handloads.
IMO, the .450 Marlin was introduced for use by non-handloading shooters/hunters that wanted more performance from a .45 than standard .45-70 commercial offerings.
Most repeating .45-70 rifles are heavier guns (like a Winchester 1886/86) than I like to tote around, but the Marlin 336/1895's in .45-70 are the same weight as the .450 chambering - a much more manageable weight for me (YMMV).
Since your nephew has already bought it, I would suggest trying to see if he'll let you shoot it first, so you can form your own impression of it.
.
Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Depends on the price they are asking.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Seems like a gimmic right from the start to me. It is a belted magnum that doesn't give you anything you can't get from the same gun in .45-70. So why buy an oddball that likely will be obsolete in short time?
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
marlinman93 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:34 pm
So why buy an oddball that likely will be obsolete in short time ?
Well...………………. One I can think of is that the .450 Marlin is the only way to get .45-70 ballistics in a Winchester 94 action, which is a bunch easier to tote around than a Model 1886/86.
.
Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
I don't really have a horse in this race but from what I see it looks like a .45-70 want to be. If I wanted a big bore I'd go with the .45-70 because it can be more than what it is. I don't know how hard the .450 can be pushed. Don't mess with success.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
It starts with a .45... and it ends there.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
In practical terms the 450 Marlin has more in common with the 450 Alaskan than a 45-70. 450 Alaskan is the .348 case opened up to accept 45 caliber bullets. Its a powerful cartridge intended for the great bears and moose of Alaska. But Marlin did not offer heavy jacketed bullets for truly large animals; instead it was loaded for deer hunting. These factory bullets are fine for deer but less than ideal for anything else. Of course, the hand loader can use bullets for any game that walks. There is significant recoil associated with the 450 Marlin and for this reason I passed when it first was introduced. I am not a fan of recoil; my .308 has been magna-ported for me and the .308 is not considered a hard kicker at all. This just illustrates that I shoot best when recoil is not bothersome.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
If you like it get it. You have enough knowledge to make it do whatever you want...from coyotes to elk...from tin cans to clay birds on the bank......cast or jacketed. If you pay a fair price, you will always get your money back. Who gives a pelosi what others think..----6
Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Exactly. Be advised that the factory ammo will leave a mark on your end of the works. Those 94s are pretty light.Sixgun wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:36 pm If you like it get it. You have enough knowledge to make it do whatever you want...from coyotes to elk...from tin cans to clay birds on the bank......cast or jacketed. If you pay a fair price, you will always get your money back. Who gives a pelosi what others think..----6
Your mileage may vary, but my ported 1895GS was painfully louder than the longer bbl without ports....
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
can't argue with thatSixgun wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:36 pm If you like it get it. You have enough knowledge to make it do whatever you want...from coyotes to elk...from tin cans to clay birds on the bank......cast or jacketed. If you pay a fair price, you will always get your money back. Who gives a pelosi what others think..----6
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
What to LIKE about the 450 is that it is 'different' not everyone has it. I like the odd ball off the wall cartridges. My favorite for many years has been 25-20. While the AR craze was really taking off I got a 450 Bushmaster upper. It is very accurate, reasonable to shoot, easy to reload- I don't shoot it much but I have it cuz I like it.
If the 450 Marlin appeals to you then get it, enjoy it and take it hunting.
If the 450 Marlin appeals to you then get it, enjoy it and take it hunting.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Nephew and I are going out to range end of week to test drive the Marlin.
Still not sure how I feel about it. Honestly if it was a 45-70 I'd be on it but ………. I guess we will go from there.
Wm.
Still not sure how I feel about it. Honestly if it was a 45-70 I'd be on it but ………. I guess we will go from there.
Wm.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Yeah, those extra 2 lbs. could really wear a guy out.Pete44ru wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:24 pmmarlinman93 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:34 pm
So why buy an oddball that likely will be obsolete in short time ?
Well...………………. One I can think of is that the .450 Marlin is the only way to get .45-70 ballistics in a Winchester 94 action, which is a bunch easier to tote around than a Model 1886/86.
.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Good cartridge. If you handload you can make out of it what you want.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
To a certain point anyway. The real restriction of the .450 is the guns it's chambered in. One would have to build a stronger action to fully realize what a belted magnum .450 could do.Old Savage wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:49 pm Good cartridge. If you handload you can make out of it what you want.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
The belt of this round is purposely almost twice the height of the standard belted magnum and has nothing to do with strength but safety and prevents the bolt from closing if dropped into the chamber of a .300 or .338 winchester or the like.
Marlin copied the .458 american which is a 2" cased wildcat but lengthened the belt for safety.
Marlin copied the .458 american which is a 2" cased wildcat but lengthened the belt for safety.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
I am not trying to sell you anything here, buy it if it makes sense. Just pointing out some misconceptions. I don't think marlin was trying to reinvent the 45/70 cartridge so much as their platform from witch to fire it from. Other wise it is a redundant cartridge with the grater potential for more performance leaning toward the 45/70 if you want to split hairs as it will hold a tad more grains of water in the 45/70 case with the thinner walls. The point of it was more fixing not what I would necessarily call a flaw, but the week point of the guide gun when stoked to the top end. With out the large rim of the 45/70 they were able to utilize a smaller diameter tube for the magazine witch in turn allowed them to leave more material/steel under the chamber of the barrel to strengthen up where they blow apart when they fail. It also uses a different stronger barrel thread design. I believe it is a square cut acme style thread that is shallower cut than the regular v-thread. The other benefit was with out the large rim to contend with it allows for a much slicker action and the cartridges chamber easier. This is my take on it and don't ask me to back any of it up because I don't have references and don't want to look for them either. search away if you want, the answers are out there some where, but I lost interest in the debate to long ago to care. I think in the case of the Winchester rifles its a moot point as they were stronger to begin with. Its really to bad Hornady never produced any ammo with premium bullets, I think it would have had a better success. Not to discount there 350FP I think its capable, but there are a ton of better options out there and surely if you reload the posibilitys are endless, but then so is the 45/70. If you get it just be aware of the lever evolution ammo Hornady sold with the gummy tipped bullets, the brass is too short to seat normal bullets out to the correct
COAL if utilizing a crimp groove. why in the hell they did that is beyond me, just stick to the normal length brass. Oh the other
benefit is the chamber is cut a bit deeper around the meplate I believe allowing for more a shorter and heavier bullet like the ones jaybok young produces, I know some of the cast guys had molds cut accordingly also. Another boon that Hornady never capitalized on. any way that's my take and take it for what its worth. Good luck.
The standard Marlin thread WAS the Acme thread. That was changed to standard 60 degree V thread to increase strength when chambering to .450 , 338 MX and .308 MX . Other chamberings (some of them at least) use the V thread now also.
COAL if utilizing a crimp groove. why in the hell they did that is beyond me, just stick to the normal length brass. Oh the other
benefit is the chamber is cut a bit deeper around the meplate I believe allowing for more a shorter and heavier bullet like the ones jaybok young produces, I know some of the cast guys had molds cut accordingly also. Another boon that Hornady never capitalized on. any way that's my take and take it for what its worth. Good luck.
The standard Marlin thread WAS the Acme thread. That was changed to standard 60 degree V thread to increase strength when chambering to .450 , 338 MX and .308 MX . Other chamberings (some of them at least) use the V thread now also.
Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Oh as the others said the belt is nothing other than a keeping it out the wrong chamber kind of a thing.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Thanks Ray and Udy for two very informative posts...!
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
In my view we don't need what it could do. What it does do is quite enough.marlinman93 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:52 pmTo a certain point anyway. The real restriction of the .450 is the guns it's chambered in. One would have to build a stronger action to fully realize what a belted magnum .450 could do.Old Savage wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:49 pm Good cartridge. If you handload you can make out of it what you want.
Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
More powerful than standard 45-70. No better or worse than 45-70 loads worked up for a Marlin. Since I have neither, I wouldn't sweat the difference if I were in the market for a big bore lever action.
Another potential plus is being a rimless cartridge, the 450 can run from box mags like in the BLR or potentially a short bolt action.
Since its rimless and straight, the 450 requires a belt for headspacing. They made it thicker than standard maybe to keep us from making our own cases from cutting down 7mm rem brass?
Another potential plus is being a rimless cartridge, the 450 can run from box mags like in the BLR or potentially a short bolt action.
Since its rimless and straight, the 450 requires a belt for headspacing. They made it thicker than standard maybe to keep us from making our own cases from cutting down 7mm rem brass?
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
The reasons for the belt is mostly what i read about pressures, but I think making the belt wider was more so we had to buy proprietary brass and not be able to make it from all the other easily found belted mags! It is a great cartridge, but like th3 .41 Mag, it came to late. I almost bought a ported .450 guide gun but already had a 45/70 and really didn’t need it, tho I did want it! Todd/3leg
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
I am a 45-70 fan. Currently have 5 0f them, levers/single shot/Encore pistol.
Got a deal on a near new JM Marlin Guide gun in 450 Marlin. As I hand load, my firearms see almost no factory ammo.
Cast several different 45 cal rifle bullets from 350 to 550 grains, grooved and paper patch.
So loading any reasonable round for the 450 is easy. It is fun, functions well and is most useful, in my opinion, with a hard cast 420 gr FNGC at 1800 fps.
Nothing not like for me.
Don
Got a deal on a near new JM Marlin Guide gun in 450 Marlin. As I hand load, my firearms see almost no factory ammo.
Cast several different 45 cal rifle bullets from 350 to 550 grains, grooved and paper patch.
So loading any reasonable round for the 450 is easy. It is fun, functions well and is most useful, in my opinion, with a hard cast 420 gr FNGC at 1800 fps.
Nothing not like for me.
Don
Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
At one point I had three Marlins chambered in 450 and eight or nine more chambered for the 45-70 . Liked them both equally . The 450 Marlin was “The One” that got me buying Marlin’s after about 120 Marlins made from 1894to 2005 or so I’m down to three . As stated my first Marlin was an 1895M in 450 the second was an 1895CB in 45-70 and the third was an 444P in of all things a 444 . So I’m pretty okay with any of them .
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
I think the 450 Marlin is a good cartridge. It is nearly identical to Frank Barnes 458X2" American, which was designed to take all American big game without the unnecessary power of the 458 Winchester Magnum. Marlin chambered their rifles with the cartridge, which only differs in the width of it's belt to do the same thing. Often times we forget that most folks are not like those who frequent this forum, and when they buy a 45/70 Govt they also buy a couple boxes of factory ammo and go into the woods. Those who have found the 45/70 Govt lacking in the power department when it comes to big game or game that bites back, have only the option of going to a big 458 Winchester or 460 Weatherby if they want to stay with a 45 caliber bullet. Well, Marlin filled the space in the middle with the 450 Marlin. Just the way Frank Barnes hoped the 458X2" American would do - but, like the 450 Marlin, it never took hold. I think that's too bad.
Oh, and remember, back when Frank Barnes came up with his cartridge, very few were rolling their own ammo. I remember wanting a 458 American when I was still young - which was a long time ago. At that time, not many were loading up the 45/70 Govt. And if they did, no gun magazines wrote about it, and there was no internet, just a few publications who wrote about something the 458 American could do that would later become common place for 45/70 Govt owners. And there was no Buffalo Bore back then either. Western Auto only stocked Remington, Federal, and Winchester ammo.
The 450 Marlin achieves what many folks on this forum achieve by loading the 45/70 Govt up to full power. Which, by the way, is really no longer a 45/70 Govt, it's more like a 45/70 Govt +P when loaded hot. So, you can think of the 450 Marlin as a cartridge that starts out full power, but can be loaded down to 45/70 Govt if you want to plink with it or shoot rodents in your barn. Just the opposite starting point of the 45/70 Govt, which starts slow and can be hot rodded if needed. If you intend to hunt Elk, big bears, and other stuff that needs good penetration from a wide, heavy bullet - without handloading - you've got the right rifle. The 450 Marlin is a good cartridge.
Now, with that being said, finding ammo for a discontinued rifle can be a challenge. But that can be fun too. I hunted for ammo for my 348 Winchester long after it's obituary began to fade. And after a number of years and old hardware stores with old stock, and this gun show and that garage sale, I wound up with a lifetimes supply of the stuff.
You have a good rifle in a good chambering. Get some ammo and have some fun.
Oh, and remember, back when Frank Barnes came up with his cartridge, very few were rolling their own ammo. I remember wanting a 458 American when I was still young - which was a long time ago. At that time, not many were loading up the 45/70 Govt. And if they did, no gun magazines wrote about it, and there was no internet, just a few publications who wrote about something the 458 American could do that would later become common place for 45/70 Govt owners. And there was no Buffalo Bore back then either. Western Auto only stocked Remington, Federal, and Winchester ammo.
The 450 Marlin achieves what many folks on this forum achieve by loading the 45/70 Govt up to full power. Which, by the way, is really no longer a 45/70 Govt, it's more like a 45/70 Govt +P when loaded hot. So, you can think of the 450 Marlin as a cartridge that starts out full power, but can be loaded down to 45/70 Govt if you want to plink with it or shoot rodents in your barn. Just the opposite starting point of the 45/70 Govt, which starts slow and can be hot rodded if needed. If you intend to hunt Elk, big bears, and other stuff that needs good penetration from a wide, heavy bullet - without handloading - you've got the right rifle. The 450 Marlin is a good cartridge.
Now, with that being said, finding ammo for a discontinued rifle can be a challenge. But that can be fun too. I hunted for ammo for my 348 Winchester long after it's obituary began to fade. And after a number of years and old hardware stores with old stock, and this gun show and that garage sale, I wound up with a lifetimes supply of the stuff.
You have a good rifle in a good chambering. Get some ammo and have some fun.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Well its darn bit colder then the 32 degrees the thermometer says it is. Or I am getting older and not tolerating the cold like I used to.
Must be the thermometer is out of whack.
Anyway went to the range with nephew, niece in law, assorted kids, dogs, and wife. Had a brunch around the burn barrel with hot turkey sandwiches, venison enchiladas, coffee and hot cocoa. Oh and we shot the 450 Marlin among other things.
I liked it. Shot accurately but that action needs some TLC. Just not smooth like I prefer. Annoying but fixable. However the down side is nephew also shot the rifle and he is warming up to it as his wife has warmed up to his 35 Remington. SHe has a 308 but she never seemed to warm up to it. The 35 seems to be more her speed (i.e. recoil tolerance). So what we seemed to have worked out is Nephew is going to keep the 450 Marlin, I'm going to buy dies for it, we are going to work up some hand loads together, and see where things go from there.
I of course can borrow the rifle any time.
Kind of worked out nice.
Wm
Must be the thermometer is out of whack.
Anyway went to the range with nephew, niece in law, assorted kids, dogs, and wife. Had a brunch around the burn barrel with hot turkey sandwiches, venison enchiladas, coffee and hot cocoa. Oh and we shot the 450 Marlin among other things.
I liked it. Shot accurately but that action needs some TLC. Just not smooth like I prefer. Annoying but fixable. However the down side is nephew also shot the rifle and he is warming up to it as his wife has warmed up to his 35 Remington. SHe has a 308 but she never seemed to warm up to it. The 35 seems to be more her speed (i.e. recoil tolerance). So what we seemed to have worked out is Nephew is going to keep the 450 Marlin, I'm going to buy dies for it, we are going to work up some hand loads together, and see where things go from there.
I of course can borrow the rifle any time.
Kind of worked out nice.
Wm
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Put a couple hundred more round through it and itll smooth up some.
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
All those 45+year old Marlin 444’s I owned or still owned were already “worn in” when I bought them LOL’s !
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Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
I agree with Idiot (....my wife would surely have a comment if she heard me say that... )
"Anyway went to the range with nephew, niece in law, assorted kids, dogs, and wife. Had a brunch around the burn barrel with hot turkey sandwiches, venison enchiladas, coffee and hot cocoa. Oh and we shot the 450 Marlin among other things."
Now that right there sounds just plain fun, whatever guns you have....
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Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: What is there to like about a 450 Marlin?
Can't argue with thatAJMD429 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:26 pmI agree with Idiot (....my wife would surely have a comment if she heard me say that... )
"Anyway went to the range with nephew, niece in law, assorted kids, dogs, and wife. Had a brunch around the burn barrel with hot turkey sandwiches, venison enchiladas, coffee and hot cocoa. Oh and we shot the 450 Marlin among other things."
Now that right there sounds just plain fun, whatever guns you have....
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