Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:45 pm
- Location: Dartmouth, MA
- Contact:
Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Hey....It's got a lever!
Finally got me a REAL Sharps. Bought it from a fantastic guy on the CAS forum...THANKS DOUG!
The condition is fantastic. Much better than I expected! The barrel will be relined as the bore is trash. It is currently a 50-70 and will stay in this caliber. Barrel liner, dies, brass and bullet mold are on their way from Track Of The Wolf.
Now I have a million questions about it. Mostly about the mechanism that lives under the hammer. Anyone know what this all about.
Also, where can I research the serial number and maybe find a bit of history about this rifle?
Loads of pictures here:
http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/thi ... s-carbine/
Finally got me a REAL Sharps. Bought it from a fantastic guy on the CAS forum...THANKS DOUG!
The condition is fantastic. Much better than I expected! The barrel will be relined as the bore is trash. It is currently a 50-70 and will stay in this caliber. Barrel liner, dies, brass and bullet mold are on their way from Track Of The Wolf.
Now I have a million questions about it. Mostly about the mechanism that lives under the hammer. Anyone know what this all about.
Also, where can I research the serial number and maybe find a bit of history about this rifle?
Loads of pictures here:
http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/thi ... s-carbine/
-
- Levergunner 3.0
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:09 pm
- Location: Arequipa, Peru till 2020
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Good evening
That is a nice looking 1859 ! 50-70 is one fine caliber for popping whatever gets in the way. A round ball works real well on smaller critters.
Have one also but our's is still with the original barrel. That "mechanism" was the "auto tape primer". Each time the hammer was cocked a small lever advanced the primer tape for the next shot. Think of the old cap pistols many of us grew up with and you have the idea. Worked OK when everything was good.
So open the side plate off and on and grease the parts (if they are present) as moisture / crud will get in there. But otherwise it is a piece of history past for rapid priming.
That is a nice looking 1859 ! 50-70 is one fine caliber for popping whatever gets in the way. A round ball works real well on smaller critters.
Have one also but our's is still with the original barrel. That "mechanism" was the "auto tape primer". Each time the hammer was cocked a small lever advanced the primer tape for the next shot. Think of the old cap pistols many of us grew up with and you have the idea. Worked OK when everything was good.
So open the side plate off and on and grease the parts (if they are present) as moisture / crud will get in there. But otherwise it is a piece of history past for rapid priming.
A sinner saved by FAITH in the Blood of Jesus Christ &teaching God´s Word in Peru. John 3:36
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:45 pm
- Location: Dartmouth, MA
- Contact:
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Actually, I did some research and the mechanism is the “Lawrence Pelley Primer System”. A far superior system to the Maynard Tape System. And the Army bought a number of rifles for th3 Berdan Sharp Shooters with this system. Could this possibly be a Berdan Sharpshooter Rifle!
- ollogger
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2807
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:47 pm
- Location: Wheatland Wyoming
- Contact:
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Wish I knew some thing about them but don't, cool gun for Shure!!!
Brad
Brad
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1459
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:31 pm
- Location: Arizona Territory
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Most likely it was 57 Sharps cal. that shot a Christmas tree bullet. It was a paper cartridge or you could loose fill the chamber after breech seating the bullet. back in the middle 1980's I had a Pedersolli , exact replica. Mine was the civilian sports model, the piece had a tapered octagon barrel 1" across the flats. It also had the priming system on the piece. I shot loose fill in the chamber, it came with a single cavity Christmas Tree bullet mold. The Rifle I had was a heavy piece, was close to 10 pounds or more in weight.
My bad, I sold it 20 years ago.
My bad, I sold it 20 years ago.
SASS# 51223
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30
- gamekeeper
- Spambot Zapper
- Posts: 17463
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
- Location: Over the pond unfortunately.
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Congratulations, that sure is a very interesting firearm.........
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:45 pm
- Location: Dartmouth, MA
- Contact:
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
A few other folks have informed me that it is a M1863 converted to 50-70 and is now an M1868 with a Lawrence Priming System. More research will tell where and when it went into service.
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Very nice congrats.
Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Very nice! It should give good service.
There were quite a lot of them converted from percussion to 50-70 cartridge by government arsenals after the Civil War. They did the minimal amount of work, and left the old pellet primer system lockplates on them with internal parts intact in most cases I believe. The barrel was relined, the breech block replaced, and the hammer replaced.
Being a carbine, its unlikely it was a sharpshooters rifle. They used 3 band rifles as far as i know. I think the pellet primer system was fairly common.
Something many dont realize, a great many of the Sharps buffalo guns were built from converted percussion carbines, before the 1874 came out, and likely even afterwards, by the factory and by individual gunsmiths. The carbines were fairly cheap and made a good starting point, or were all that was easily available before the 74s came out. Most just assume all cartridge Sharps buffalo guns were 1874s.
The conversion guns are easy to spot once one knows the things to look for. The 74 type hammers were most commonly used on sporting rifles/buffalo guns, not the taller, percussion-esque shape replacement hammer on this conversion gun, but the lower, sleeker looking 74 type hammers, and the lock plate was ground down and filled as needed. The percussion lock plates are thicker, and the conversion guns usually still have the screw on the bottom of the lockplate. The military carbine stocks are also usually retained, and the sling ring bar (usually called a saddle ring today) is normally cut off, the the long oval plate left, instead of the small escutcheon for the lockplate screw of later guns. The front end of the sling bar is also ground off flush with the frame, and usually shoes if you look closely. Once the carbine barrels were replaced with either an octagon, or heavy round Business Rifle type barrel and sporter fore end, they cease looking like converted percussion carbines, and get lumped in with the 74s in most peoples minds. The conversion guns have tons of history, both in military carbine form, and as rebuilt buffalo guns.
There were quite a lot of them converted from percussion to 50-70 cartridge by government arsenals after the Civil War. They did the minimal amount of work, and left the old pellet primer system lockplates on them with internal parts intact in most cases I believe. The barrel was relined, the breech block replaced, and the hammer replaced.
Being a carbine, its unlikely it was a sharpshooters rifle. They used 3 band rifles as far as i know. I think the pellet primer system was fairly common.
Something many dont realize, a great many of the Sharps buffalo guns were built from converted percussion carbines, before the 1874 came out, and likely even afterwards, by the factory and by individual gunsmiths. The carbines were fairly cheap and made a good starting point, or were all that was easily available before the 74s came out. Most just assume all cartridge Sharps buffalo guns were 1874s.
The conversion guns are easy to spot once one knows the things to look for. The 74 type hammers were most commonly used on sporting rifles/buffalo guns, not the taller, percussion-esque shape replacement hammer on this conversion gun, but the lower, sleeker looking 74 type hammers, and the lock plate was ground down and filled as needed. The percussion lock plates are thicker, and the conversion guns usually still have the screw on the bottom of the lockplate. The military carbine stocks are also usually retained, and the sling ring bar (usually called a saddle ring today) is normally cut off, the the long oval plate left, instead of the small escutcheon for the lockplate screw of later guns. The front end of the sling bar is also ground off flush with the frame, and usually shoes if you look closely. Once the carbine barrels were replaced with either an octagon, or heavy round Business Rifle type barrel and sporter fore end, they cease looking like converted percussion carbines, and get lumped in with the 74s in most peoples minds. The conversion guns have tons of history, both in military carbine form, and as rebuilt buffalo guns.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:45 pm
- Location: Dartmouth, MA
- Contact:
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Great information. Thanks!
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9075
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Roy, great find. You owe yourself a copy of Frank Sellers' "Sharps Firearms" if you don't already have one.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:45 pm
- Location: Dartmouth, MA
- Contact:
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Great book. I have a well read copy. Been a Sharps fan for years. I have a 74 and a 75. Both reproductions. 45-70 and 38-55 respectively. I ordered three more Sharps books from Amazon. Now need a rainy day to read them.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:45 pm
- Location: Dartmouth, MA
- Contact:
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Took the butt plate off th3 Sharps to da6 to see if it had a serial number. No serial number but someone, long ago, put a leaf under th3 butt plate. No way it could have gotten in ther3 on its own. The leaf material was just dust, but the veins were still there. Interesting! I wonder what tha5 was all about?
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
4 leaf clover. ?
Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:45 pm
- Location: Dartmouth, MA
- Contact:
Re: Got me a "REAL" 1859 SHARPS!
Nope, some kind of long leaf disiduous (sp?) leaf