How do I remove a seized nipple

CanadianCowboy · Post by **CanadianCowboy** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:12 pm

from a Walker clone? the nipple is also clogged something fierce [:(]

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:36 pm

I have never had the problem but black powder residue is water soluable so maybe soaking in hot water for a while might help. Then maybe gentle heating with a heatgun might soften it up. Just an idea might help. Maybe penetrating oil but as I said it is water soluable. Somebody else should come along.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:39 pm

Dunno, I got slapped last time I tried to seize...no I won't go there....

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:01 pm

Put some Kroil penatrating oil on it and use a soldering iron as a heat source. Should come right out.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:05 pm

I'd try what Lefty Dude said.

Might boil it in water first to try to dissolve the black powder
salts, though.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:20 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:Put some Kroil penatrating oil on it and use a soldering iron as a heat source. Should come right out.

Don't use a flame as a heat source as you'll discolor the bluing. Hold the soldering iron on the cylinder near the nipple. The biggest problem will be even heat around the nipple to expand that metal without overheating the nipple. Most any penetrating oil will work if you don't have Kroil near to hand.

After soaking, if you have no access to a soldering iron, use yer nipple wrench (preferably an old one that might be buggered up a little and due for replacing), over the nipple in question and rap with a brass hammer. This will probably necessitate the replacement of the nipple and wrench.

I was told to use dry-ice on the nipple to contract the steel at one time, but another person told me that would make it too brittle, often breaking it before it came loose. Never tried it.

I've only had to use the heat and hammer method on a couple of ocassions. The few times I used heat, it didn't take much, and the nipple was salvageable. Soaked the base of the cylinder and nipple in oil overnite. Then after wiping off most of the oil, I heated it up till it was just hot enough to make the oil smoke, not evaporate off, then applied the wrench.

Big Bore 94 · Post by **Big Bore 94** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:34 pm

Molasses is a chelating agent. A rusty object placed for two weeks in 1 part molasses and 3-4 parts water will loose it's rust due to the chelating action of the molasses. Just learned about chelating today. All natural so it should not unseason your black powder arm.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:37 pm

Somewhere...theres a pretty good joke here....
But I will control myself!

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:02 pm

Big Bore 94 wrote:Molasses is a chelating agent. A rusty object placed for two weeks in 1 part molasses and 3-4 parts water will loose it's rust due to the chelating action of the molasses. Just learned about chelating today. All natural so it should not unseason your black powder arm.

Bluing is a rust process - you'd probably lose your bluing on the cylinder if you used the molasses solution.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:12 pm

In the past I've soaked the cylinder in kerosene for a couple of days. Then we put the cylinder in a vice (using a wood block drilled out to a slightly smaller ID than the cylinder with a hold saw and cut in half). The cylinder OD was dried and rosined to grip the wood. Then we put the nipple wrench to it using a pair of vice grips on the wrench handle to give additional leverage. Slow, strong and steady is the key there. I've done the same sans the kerosene soak and have heard that sometimes the heat is required. The best method is to clean the darn gun after shooting but

it never is our own guns we're helping with, is it?

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:22 pm

Here's how I do it. Heat the nipple/cylinder with a small torch flame to a point that water sizzles off it but not so hot it discolors the blue. Heat and qunch in cold water two or three times. This shocks the rust and threads. Kinda like heating glass marbles and putting them in cold water.
Then I made a wrench from an old 1/4" drive deep socket. Pick one that will just swallow the cap portion of the nipple then file or grind notches to fit the nipple shoulders. I then use it on an impact driver and with the cylinder clamped in a padded vice, give it a good wack. I have never had one fail to come out.

Here's a neat tool I found at Harbor Freight.

This one takes the 1/4" hex tips.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:29 pm

Hobie wrote:The best method is to clean the darn gun after shooting but it never is our own guns we're helping with, is it?

Why Hobie, don't we all have these "friends" that just can't do ANYTHING right and need our help? How else to we actually LEARN!

Neat tool Nate. Good idea about the socket!

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:47 pm

I like the socket idea, too!

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:54 pm

Hobie wrote:I like the socket idea, too!

Aint none of this brain surgery. But you do have to buy or make the right tool.

CanadianCowboy · Post by **CanadianCowboy** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:14 pm

truthfully I would love to claim it is a friend's firearm, but it is mine, though i have not ever fired it, my transfer just came through on three C&B revolvers I picked up cheap at the gun show (The Walker, one clogged nipple, seized in, stamped S. Marco, what I think is an 1860, though it has a stepped cylinder, round barrel, marked Connecticut Valley Arms, and an 1851 Navy, brass framed octagon barreled, also with a stepped cylinder marked Safari Arms ltd.)

the Walker needs the screw that joins the two metal pieces of grip together, and the wedge retaining screw, otherwise all I had to do was give it a good cleaning to make it function (though the wood stock is chipped, and there is that nipple issue) the Army only needed a new trigger spring and also needs that same screw as the walker, the Navy needs a lot of work, all the screws, a new cylinder stop bolt, etc.

I got them all for $120CDN and really only wanted the Walker as I have always wanted one, now I just want to make it into a 6 shooter again

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:28 am

An old Gunsmith I used in the 1960's for my repairs made his penetrating oil/rust remover with a mixture of 50% kerosene & 50% linseed oil.

Any one ever tried or used this before ?

Hagler · Post by **Hagler** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:47 am

Gents,

Transmission fluid is a good oil to use. ATF has detergents & rust-inhibitors in it. It is a good cleaner.

One time, I mixed-up a batch of all sorts of petro-chemicals to use as a penetrating oil. I incorporated ATF, kerosene, stale gasoline, diesel fuel, STP, and maybe some other stuff. It worked pretty good.

Shawn

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:51 am

CanadianCowboy,

Still, YOU didn't cause the problem!

We're fortunate that replacement nipples are relatively inexpensive and sometimes better than original issue.

You can learn a lot about revolvers messing about with those guns. I probably couldn't have walked by them for $120.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:04 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:An old Gunsmith I used in the 1960's for my repairs made his penetrating oil/rust remover with a mixture of 50% kerosene & 50% linseed oil.

Any one ever tried or used this before ?

Lefty,
Nothing and I mean nothing penetrates rust as well as water. Try it on an old pair of stuck pliers. Degrease with heat if needed then quench in the water and work the pliers. Keep working and rinsing until it runs clear. Then heat to dry and re-oil.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:50 pm

Nothing and I mean nothing penetrates rust as well as water. Try it on an old pair of stuck pliers. Degrease with heat if needed then quench in the water and work the pliers. Keep working and rinsing until it runs clear. Then heat to dry and re-oil.

You're the first guy I've ever known to know this. It's true, too, I've used that trick a lot.

Another thing, diesel is horrible for that job, the sulphur in it combines with the O-2 in the water to make sulphuric acid and eat those plyers up. I suppose you can guess how I discovered that, eh?

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:57 pm

I made a dandy nipple wrench from an allen wrench... Dremel cut the notch... finish filed to fit the nipple snugly....
Cutting the 1/4 drive socket to shape works good for Lee Enfield firing pin removal tool too..use a short extension..Good luck

CanadianCowboy · Post by **CanadianCowboy** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:44 pm

Thanks all for the help, I made a tool out of a metric 6 side socket (I used 5.5mm, should have used 5mm though) and got all the nipples out easily. The one that was clogged I tried to drill back out but that does not look like it will work, and my smith told me he has nipples that may fit, but apparently they used all kinds of weird threads, as well as different sized nipples themselves, so I will have to send him the dead nipple and get a new one (or are these like sparkplugs, replace all at once?)

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:05 pm

CanadianCowboy wrote:Thanks all for the help, I made a tool out of a metric 6 side socket (I used 5.5mm, should have used 5mm though) and got all the nipples out easily. The one that was clogged I tried to drill back out but that does not look like it will work, and my smith told me he has nipples that may fit, but apparently they used all kinds of weird threads, as well as different sized nipples themselves, so I will have to send him the dead nipple and get a new one (or are these like sparkplugs, replace all at once?)

Try Thunder Ridge, and, yes, I'd replace 'en all.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:22 pm

Griff wrote:
CanadianCowboy wrote:Thanks all for the help, I made a tool out of a metric 6 side socket (I used 5.5mm, should have used 5mm though) and got all the nipples out easily. The one that was clogged I tried to drill back out but that does not look like it will work, and my smith told me he has nipples that may fit, but apparently they used all kinds of weird threads, as well as different sized nipples themselves, so I will have to send him the dead nipple and get a new one (or are these like sparkplugs, replace all at once?)
Try Thunder Ridge, and, yes, I'd replace 'en all.

And I would buy the Treso's. They are much more consistant, have smaller flash hole so the back pressure doesn't easily blow the spent caps off jamming the gun.

I use them on all my match guns.

CanadianCowboy · Post by **CanadianCowboy** » Sat May 03, 2008 12:42 am

How do I know which nipples to order for a SMarco 1847 walker?

this is all very confusing, why couldn't all nipples be the same?

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:42 am

Steve, those are mighty handsome Remingtons!

Are they brass framed? I have always been led to believe brass wouldn't hold up to the stresses involved in competition. I have a brass-framed 1851 navy copy that hasn't been shot much.

CanadianCowboy · Post by **CanadianCowboy** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:26 am

The navy clone is brass and needs alot of work, the armyish clone is steel framed with cuts for a shoulder stock, the walker is steel with brass trigger guard

Post by **Hobie** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:35 am

CC,

The nipples aren't the same because the mfg dimensions weren't exactly the same. I'm with Steve, get the Treso nipples, and with Griff, change them all. Dixie would know which nipples are for the San Marco, I believe they have an 800 number.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:00 am

20cows wrote:Steve, those are mighty handsome Remingtons!

Are they brass framed? I have always been led to believe brass wouldn't hold up to the stresses involved in competition. I have a brass-framed 1851 navy copy that hasn't been shot much.

They are actually stainless with blue parts. One of them came as a Tu-tone engraved and the other two I put together myself.

This one has a $50 engraving job done on it with one of those cheap electric vibrator etcher/markers.

CanadianCowboy wrote:How do I know which nipples to order for a SMarco 1847 walker?

this is all very confusing, why couldn't all nipples be the same?

Check with THUNDER RIDGE. They should be able to tell you what fits.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:59 am

Yep, I shoulda specified the Treso. My ASM 1851 uses the same 12-24 nipple as my Colts, but most ASMs use a 5mm thread. But, according to VTI the Walker & Dragoons take the same nipple. Get you a metric thread pitch guage, it'll tell for certain.

CanadianCowboy · Post by **CanadianCowboy** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:13 pm

I am goign to buy some tresos looks like, now another question, my registration certificates came in the mail today, and it lists what I thought was a Walker as a Dragoon, my pistol is marked US 1847 and caliber 44, toherwise it ahs no markings on it that are not modern, so what is it? I know that the registration certificates can be wrong, my 1887 is registered as a 1901, my 1861 Navy is registered as a 1860 Army, so accuracy is not always there, but I would like to know so that when I order some other needed parts for this revolver I don't get the wrong ones by accident

I will also post pictures once my camera is charged

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:48 pm

How is the rammer held up? The Dragoons have a forward latch& hanger where the Walker has a rear hanger/latch combo sorta. The dragoons have squared grips where they meet the frames. The Walker has a half moon kinda cut out in the frame for the grips. Barrel wedge on the walker goes in from the right side. Dragoon and the other CB colts goes in from the left side.

Walker

Dragoon, 2nd model I think.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sun May 04, 2008 5:43 am

Steve, I may not be remembering right , but I think that is a third model. I looked into the differences awhile back for a friend that found a lone cylinder on his ranch (not too far from a Comanche grave, BTW). His ranch is in an interesting area.

The first model had oval cylinder lock notches like the Walker, the second had rectangular notches without the leading "dished" area. The third had notches like the one in your picture- basically like what is found on all the later models.

The cylinder my friend found was a 2nd model. It occurred to me that somebody might have had to change cylinders in a hurry, perhaps from the back of a horse.

CanadianCowboy · Post by **CanadianCowboy** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:58 pm

It is a Walker then, great.

now I just need ot find the screws and a stock for that 1861

pictures hopefully tomorrow, camera is not charging right, might need a new battery

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:02 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote: Dragoon, 2nd model I think.

Steve - that's a third model. Square-cut cylinder stops, and a round trigger guard. The second model had the "improved" square-cut stops as well (Walker and First Model have oval cuts), but kept the square-back/flat-back "dragoon-style" trigger guard.

Gotta love them all!!!

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:53 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:
Nate Kiowa Jones wrote: Dragoon, 2nd model I think.

Steve - that's a third model. Square-cut cylinder stops, and a round trigger guard. The second model had the "improved" square-cut stops as well (Walker and First Model have oval cuts), but kept the square-back/flat-back "dragoon-style" trigger guard.

Gotta love them all!!!

Actually, It's a Uberti and they have been known to mix and match. It has the verticle rammer latch like the seconds. But I have a that has the horizontal latch like the 3rd but a square back trigger guard.

I know not to believe Uberti but I've seen others that show the third with the verticle latch. Some say the 3rds were all cut for butstock, too. Who knows?

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:46 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote: Actually, It's a Uberti and they have been known to mix and match. It has the verticle rammer latch like the seconds. But I have a that has the horizontal latch like the 3rd but a square back trigger guard.

I know not to believe Uberti but I've seen others that show the third with the verticle latch. Some say the 3rds were all cut for butstock, too. Who knows?

You...mean... it's a mongrel?

Uberti wouldn't do that, would they?!?

Great catch on the latch. I just looked at the stops and trigger guard and stopped. That'll teach me!