Lever gun for defense

MountainSmith · Post by **MountainSmith** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:04 am

I am new on the forum, as of today, and have a question. This has probably been asked before, but as I said, I'm new. I am not the black rifle type, but would like a self defense rifle. I'm thinking with the quick multiple shot capability, the lever gun would be good. It's worked for almost 150 years! Which gun or caliber do you recommend? Also, what enhancements can be done, if any.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:12 am

.357 Magnum or .45 Colt in one of Steve's slicked up 16" Rossis.

www.stevesgunz.com

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:13 am

BTW.....

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:00 am

I'm no tactical expert, but that won't stop me from offering my opinion.

Welcome to the internet

Anyway, A levergun in a pistol caliber has a high magazine capacity and with practice a high rate of fire. Additionally, if you keep your head about you, your magazine will never run dry. just thumb in more rounds every few shots.

Also, take into account that most civilian shootouts take place at close range and are over in very few shots.

A Marlin is drilled and tapped for a scope mount, and while many here cringe at the thought, one topped with a tactical red dot scope would make a fast shooting defensive rifle.

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:31 am

Welcome Mountainsmith!

I have several black rifles but the rifle I carry in my pickup for self-defense or what have you is a Marlin lever gun in .41 magnum. It's light,handy,accurate and the .41 ain't nothing to sneeze at out of a rifle either.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:34 am

I'll agree that a levergun can be a very good self defense rifle.

For around the house you have a few popular options.

A 16" 357mag
A 16" 44mag
A 16" 45colt

See the pattern

All three can be had with ammo perfect for home defense.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:34 am

Tycer wrote:.357 Magnum or .45 Colt in one of Steve's slicked up 16" Rossis.

www.stevesgunz.com

+1!

Welcome aboard. A 16" 1892-model lever in .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, or .45 Colt will do the trick! I have a Puma '92 (Rossi) in .45 Colt with one of Steve Young's ("Nate Kiowa Jones" action jobs, and it is as slick as whale snot in an ice flow!

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:15 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:
Tycer wrote:.357 Magnum or .45 Colt in one of Steve's slicked up 16" Rossis.

www.stevesgunz.com
+1!

Welcome aboard. A 16" 1892-model lever in .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, or .45 Colt will do the trick! I have a Puma '92 (Rossi) in .45 Colt with one of Steve Young's ("Nate Kiowa Jones" action jobs, and it is as slick as whale snot in an ice flow!

+2 It will do you just fine.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:22 am

Welcome to the forum. I have owned literally hundreds, if not tens of hundreds of firearms. After 30 years of trying things out and experimenting, here is what I have decided: I recently ordered one of Steves guns in stainless steel, two tone in .357. I have given up my black rifles (except for one m1 carbine and it has wood not black stocks). I would add that a 12 gauge pump is nice too but for all around use, I have chosen one of Steve's guns in .357 and could not be happier with the decision.

good luck in your choices.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:21 pm

Two criticisms of the lever gun come up among EBR (evil black rifle) enthusiasts; leaving the magazine loaded all the time (since they are slow to load), and they don't hold as many rounds.

As far as the magazine loaded thing, I DO like the ones you can quickly unload without cycling all the rounds through the action (even if you do it without chambering each round). The 'spring fatigue' issue I think is moot on a tube-loader, because I've never seen a spring fatigue on a tube-loader, the spring tension and function is MUCH less critical than on a 'stacked' type magazine, and I don't leave a 10-round gun loaded with 10 rounds; I put a couple less in.

As far as not holding enough rounds; I don't fear my humble abode will be attacked by an army, just the occasional rabid dog or raccoon, and less likely, a solitary two-legged predator. Besides, if you want lots of rounds available, just have 3 or 4 leverguns; that way the wife/kids can each have their own.

If I didn't have a levergun and wanted one primarily for home protection, I'd get one of the Rossi's in .44 Mag or .45 Colt or .454 Casull that has the 'tube loading' feature for fast unloading (say you want to 'plink' with cheap ammo but the gun is kept loaded with the 'good stuff' and you want to swap rounds whenever you head out back to massacre tin cans), and to a lesser extent for fast reloading. Keep in mind that in a bad situation, you CAN top off the magazine on a levergun without opening the action, which isn't something you can do with a bolt-action or semiautomatic except by replacing a detachable magazine.

Maybe some gunsmith will make a levergun modification consisting of a detachable tubular magazine one can keep loaded. (Hint to Nate?)

t.r. · Post by **t.r.** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:43 pm

My ex-brother in law works in Detroit area as a security guard. He carries a Marlin 1894 in 44 MAG. It holds 10 shells. His boss gets a number calls from customers who ask for this guy by name. They like it that the bad guys can see he is seriously armed from half block away.

He works Funeral Home parking lots, semi-abandoned construction sites, warehouse at night, etc. He has never fired a shot; the bad guys cruise by and keep going.

TR

Texican · Post by **Texican** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:07 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Maybe some gunsmith will make a levergun modification consisting of a detachable tubular magazine one can keep loaded. (Hint to Nate?)

Dave Clay's takedown conversion allows the mag to be dismounted (along with the barrel) while still loaded. This month's Rifle magazine has an article on it [which I found thanks to this forum]. A detachable magazine for storage and reloading would be cool though.... sort of like SRM's new shotgun concept - here's the video:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/lin ... 1409053057

I'd second the Marlin .357 or .44 Mag idea. XS Big Dot sights (with tritium insert) instead of a red dot would maintain the 'look'. Wild West Guns makes a clamp-on accessory rail that attaches to the magazine tube for mounting lights such as the Surefire X300.

Two big benefits of the levergun in defensive situations are (1) easy price point for effective stopping power compared to most other 'defensive' rifles. [Not so much compared to shotguns....but hey, this IS leverguns.com] and (2) after a defensive 'altercation' having a blued steel and wood firearm that has remained relatively unchanged for nearly 150 years when held aloft in court, I think, would fare far better than an 'evil black rifle'.

Just my 2 cents,

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:22 pm

IMHO...I agree that the levergun or a good short barreled pump shotgun is the ideal home defense gun.

I like the .30WCF only because it is more versitile for general usage away from a home environment. I use small game loads loaded to about 1500fps. with a 170gr. bullet (or 180+ rcbs). The load is powerful enough to penetrate an armored vest & will shoot along side a pistol caliber rifle out to 100 yrds. Loading heavier loads for longer ranges makes it a better choice. Horses for courses! The levergun (in 30WCF) is king from across a table or out to 300 yrds if'n you know your rifle and how to shoot it. So says Col. Cooper! After 45+ yrs. of practice I believe him. It gives up very little to an AR across a table. He said it walks away from ARs at any range out to 300yrds.

The levergun is ergonomically better than any other design except the pump, which is almost as good. You can continue to reload the rifle without taking it & yourself out of the fight. It need not come down off of the shoulder until the festiveties are over. The gun is always loaded & cocked for the next shot. Not so with any other design. Pump or semi-auto shotgun actions are the only other ones that afford such an advantage-the tube mag. You just reload as you go & often. Once the drill is learned it becomes simply part of the shooting cycle. It is very fast once you learn it. I shoot my pump guns in the same way in the field when bird shooting. Shoot & immediately reload as you go. You don't even need to look at the gun while doing so and it doesn't have to be lowered from the shoulder either. Only a pumpgun is as fast to recycle in the manual actions. (Excepting the Enfield rifles).

The whole idea is to make every shot count for a hit. No spray & pray...which is terrible tactically-unless your laying down suppression fire, or, setting up a defensive fire line. One shot-one kill. Even the USN Seals shoot semi-auto most of the time. I don't see any need for suppression fire by a home owner or even someone defending themselves in the field. If you need suppression fire, then YOU are in the killbox, which is where you should have maneavered(sp?) your enemy instead. If a perp is in your house, then he is already in YOUR killbox. A lever or a pump shotgun will be more than adequite, in fact they are the best. (FBI says so about the shotguns).

I have friends that regularly practice with leverguns in pistol calibers out to 300 yrds. Once you learn the holdovers, it is no trick to make real good hits out to those ranges. Heck, Ed McGivern regularly shot targets out to 600 yrds. with his protege Walter Groff back in the 1930's. And that with .357 mag Smith's & Wessons. Keith did it with everything he ever put in his hands. Any functioning levergunner should be able to do it with no trouble following proper practice. By the way, don't fall into the mental trap that you can never shoot to their level. If'n you do, then you're mentally defeated already & never will. Determine that you will do it...and you will!!! I did & so have the other members of this forum.

Any good lever in a pistol caliber is hands down a first rate choice! Also, it will look just fine in the courtroom if you're put on trial. "Oh, it's just an old cowboy gun", (if they only knew!).

Here's the key...reload your ammo & practice, practice, practice. Pick your gun & stay with it.

Good fortune to you & welcome to the fire Pard

LeverBob

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:31 pm

I'm a believer in the Winchester 94's in 30-30 cal. It's pretty open country around here in places, they are relatively flat shooting compared to pistol calibers, making hits fairly easy out to 300 yards or so, particulalry if you sight in about 3" high at 100 yards. I prefer the 20" carbine barrels for all around use. I never could warm up to the 16" guns.

A good receiver peep sight, a sourdough front, and a sling are about all I want.

I have a pistol caliber lever, (Browning 92 in 44 mag cal) but just never seem to take it out. I either prefer the range of the 30-30, or choose more power with the 45-70.

Jeff Pitts · Post by **Jeff Pitts** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:38 pm

AJMD429 wrote:The 'spring fatigue' issue I think is moot on a tube-loader, because I've never seen a spring fatigue on a tube-loader,

I HAVE! Course, it was in my '86 in 45-90 made back in 1891................

I've been shooting for over 40 years. Never owned a blackgun, never even shot one. Heck, maybe not even fondled one

But on my wifes side of the bed is a 24" Marlin Cowboy in .44 that I have loaded with 13 rounds of .44 Special stuff at just a hair over 1000fps. It cycles perfectly and best of all, my wife is very very comfortable with it.

JP

ernest haycox · Post by **ernest haycox** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:24 pm

Welcome,Mountain Smith;you will like it here,good people.I'm glad you brought this topic up,I have thought about this subject for years,even bought an expensive AR15.I could have bought 2 new leverguns for the price And been 10 times better off.I trust the leveraction and I remember all the jams I got from my M16 in the service.I got an ad in the local circular-"Will trade new AR15 for the right leveraction."Looks like I'm finally done with the silly stuff.As an aside I read in a gun magazine that springs don't wear out from being fully loaded in a magazine,they wear out from compressing and decompressing,over and over.I don't know if that's true or not.

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:40 pm

I have a 16" Barrel Winchester Ranger Compact .357 in the safe back home which has functioned in home defense role. With it and a cool head you are the master of the universe from 1 yard to 100 yards.

Savage99 · Post by **Savage99** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:36 pm

Anything mentioned above would work..But I would use hollow points something like a defensive round..that way you would cut down on over penetration..If I was to use my Rossi 454 I would use 45 colt ammo, any factory 454 load will over penetrate.. unless you trying to take out there getaway car..

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:55 pm

EBR are fine but they are Sloooooooow. I can get 10 rounds fired off with my 92 Rossi before one can take the safety off a EBR.

A lever gun will be faster for 10 round than a EBR every time.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:59 pm

Here's a perfect home defense rifle for sale elsewhere.

Win 94 'Trapper 357mag... $350

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=358340

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:52 pm

1st: Welcome to the Forum. (I try to be polite here, cause I'm so caustic on other forums).

2nd: I will agree and yet disagree with some of the aforementioned recommendations. For an inside the house or personal defense weapon, I don't believe the handgun can be beat. Distances are relatively short, and using big, slow bullets is effective.

For home defense, I prefer the .30-30. It's about 100 yards from the house to the road, which is about as close as I want them to get. Back up with the pistol calibers is certainly viable.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:10 am

Would recommend any pistol cartridge .38 cal or larger in your choice of your favorite lever. Rather than load hot for .44 mag or .45 Colt, I would keep my velocity around 800-900 fps and go with a lighter grain bullet that ensured it would open up reliably. However on the larger calibers, they dont have to open much to be effective!

MountainSmith · Post by **MountainSmith** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:31 am

Thenks for the replies, gentlemen. I appreciate no one jumped on me for the question. I cruise three or four other forums, and one I have quit because it seems every time someone asks a question they get insulted somehow. You all seem like a great bunch. Thanks again. I currently have a Marlin 336 I just got from a friend. I am also going to keep on the lookout for a trapper model in .357, since that is my favorite pistol round.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:55 am

MountainSmith - You may want to read this article .. shows the levergun at work in defensive situations ....

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/thunder_ranch.htm

MountainSmith · Post by **MountainSmith** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:27 am

Thanks for the tip, Jim. I read the article. It was very informative, and reassured me I have made the right decision in my choice of gun. The fact the lever gun seemed to work well in the urban combat scenario gives me confidence. Now to practice!

donw · Post by **donw** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:32 pm

i read, with a great deal of amusement,

, some of the LEO's responses to wanting/needing full auto capabilites firearms when encountering "the bad guys"..."they need to be STOPPED IMMEDIATELY" is generally the rationale "and one bullet us usually not adequate" so it's "fire to center of mass until the threat is stopped".

how many videos have we seen of an LEO emptying his semi-auto at a bad guy at darn near point blank range and missing every shot? too many, i'd dare say.

A key to survival (there is more than one key, too) is KEEP YOUR WITS ABOUT YOU. if you need to shoot...pick a vital spot and hit it...zero in on the heart, head or whatever, and place the projectile into it. it can be done in seconds. with a rifle, chances of hitting what you're aiming at are much better.

i believe LEO are, inavertently, trained for haphazard success rates by the "shoot as fast and as many shots as you can" method. it promotes inaccuracy. supposedly, wyatt earp said: "speed is fine, but accuracy is final"

yes, a lever will make a fine self defense firearm. practice with it...

i know, i know...this will bring weeping, wailing and knashing of teeth,

, but, unless he's superman, one well aimed shot is usually enough to stop him...throat, eye, heart, groin, knee...

just poke yourself in the throat with your thumb or whack yourself on the kneecap with a ballpeen hammer...now, imagine what that would feel like coming from a lever in .357 magnum...it would be "end of the fight"...

good luck at sorting it all out in court, too.

there's no easy, or one, answer...

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:31 pm

good luck at sorting it all out in court, too.

If your State has the Castle Doctrine in place .. and If the situation is a justifiable use of force .. there will be no court.

ornery · Post by **ornery** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:24 pm

Triple ditto...........Have carried the same Winchester 45LC since '86/87.
As an LEO it was a great companion to my 4in. 25-5. Still use it on occasion but I carry the Marlin 45/70 in the pickup. I love my carbine, but the Marlin is fun to haul out when we're at the diner and the talk gets around to guns. My wife started to give me funny looks

when she spotted THREE lever guns behind the seat. Said I was like a kid with Teddybears! How dare her!

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:47 am

a couple of years ago there was a recording of the LAPD firing about 130 rounds at a driver who wouldn't stop, they missed him with all 130. They put bullet holes in neighbor's kitchen cabinets and such but never hit the bad guy.

oldmax · Post by **oldmax** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:00 am

JimT +1 for Florida,,,

"The Castle Doctrine" is something that you guys in other states should push for....

45Jack · Post by **45Jack** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:17 pm

I have a couple Nate Kiowa Jones rifles. A .45 Colt with a 24" barrel and the latest is a .357 with a 16" barrel.
As much as I like .45's I must confess that little .357 is rapidly becoming my favorite levergun.
If a man doesn't reload, I would heartily recommend the .357 lever as a home defense weapon.
I also have a Winchester Trapper in .45 Colt, but the 92 will cycle a lot smoother.
If you do reload, a .44 or .45 with light loads will let an awful lot of air into a goblin pretty quickly
Jack

hornetguy · Post by **hornetguy** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:16 pm

If I was looking for a levergun for strictly home defense, living where I do, in a medium-upscale neighborhood in a suburb of about 75,000, north of Dallas , it would more than likely be a Marlin in 357. Close second choice would be one of the Rossi/Puma leverguns in 357. I would make sure it fed FLAWLESSLY, first and foremost. If I couldn't find a 357 to do that, I would use a 30-30... probably a Marlin of the "Texan" configuration.
The 357 was the BEST defensive round of all the pistol cartridges, in actual shootout statistics, the last I heard. In a rifle it should be even better.
The upside.... almost no recoil, muzzle blast would considerably less than the 30-30, cost of ammo should be a little less, shot for shot, I would think, magazine capacity is almost double.
The downside would be less penetration, less effective range, which should be moot in the 'burbs.

If I was in a more country type environment, the 30-30 would be the choice.

MountainSmith · Post by **MountainSmith** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:13 pm

Think I have a plan. I live in the country, and don't reload. Think I will go with a .30.30, then plan on finding a matching .357 down the road. Thanks for all the input. BTW, I defended the lever action to a friend who insisted I needed an AR,. AK, SKS, HK, or some other alphabet soup gun. Appreciate all the input. It has really helped, and probably saved me money and heartache.

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:46 pm

I always keep the 16" Rossi '92 in .45 within handy access. It has a big gold bead front and a rear tang sight with the aperture removed to leave the ghost ring. I have some stiff Blue Dot handloads in it but I worked them up expressly for minimal muzzle flash. I tested accuracy on a moonlit night against the bullet dump and got 4 inch groups at 25 yds (no artificial lights). I put this combo together because we have a lot of coyotes and I have to move very quickly when they come near the house - but it would work on 2-legged varmints also.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:57 pm

Buy a 92, Winchester 94's run revolver cartridge's not so good. The Winny 94 was designed for long rifle cartridges. The 92 is designed for shorter types.

hornetguy · Post by **hornetguy** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:26 pm

MountainSmith wrote:Think I have a plan. I live in the country, and don't reload. Think I will go with a .30.30, then plan on finding a matching .357 down the road. Thanks for all the input. BTW, I defended the lever action to a friend who insisted I needed an AR,. AK, SKS, HK, or some other alphabet soup gun. Appreciate all the input. It has really helped, and probably saved me money and heartache.

Sounds like a good plan. If you check pawn shops you can usually find gently used 30-30's for around 200 bucks. Especially if you aren't afraid to haggle a little. This time of year would be a good time to be looking... after Christmas, way before deer season.
Keep us posted as to how it works out....

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:30 pm

I have wondered these things for a long time, and being the weirdo that I am, I've also wondered if a 30-30 levergun could be modified to handle a round like the 30 Herrett.

(couldn't get the pic to show, but it's got a .506" case rim, and a 1.6" long case)
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd30herrett.jpg

Not sure what the ballistics are but I'd imagine you'd have as much punch or more than any 357 out there, most likely about 70%+ of the 30-30, and being shorter, you could have more ammo in the magazine.

So it would be a re-barrel, chambered to the Herrett, and the lifter modified to stop the round SOONER, thus a shorter throw, and quicker follow-up shots.

I'd bet effective range on a man size critter, to easily be 200yds, with the right bullet. Just a little bit shorter than the 300 Sav.

To me, THAT would be a good home defense gun, with say, 130gr HP bullets.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:07 pm

how about the 1887 win copy with any 12 gauge ammo you have on had.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:19 pm

Nothing wrong with a good levergun for self defense IMHO.

Since you have a Marlin 336 and like it, then I would strongly suggest a Marlin 94CS in .357 Mag. But load it up with 38 Speical +P hollow points (125 Grain).

I'd like you to use a pistol caliber in case you need to put it to work inside your house. The muzzle blast of a 30-30 would be very distracting inside.

For ouside, I think your 30-30 is great.

Also get yourself a quality high lumen flashlight and practice with it. You may even consider geting a clamp to attach it to the bottom of your levergun. The light allows you to identify your target and use your carbine's sights at night.

My own choice for house defense is a Springfield XD 45 with a glock taclight clamped on the bottom, but I live in town at the moment...

When I lived in the country, I always had a long gun ready.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:51 pm

I support the idea of lever rifles for HD/SD, and like Griff, would rather have a true rifle chambering in the lever, and handgunS for interior use. Not that there is anything wrong with having a secondary lever rifle chambering a handgun round, of course.

Funny, I just got thoroughly overruled on another forum because I questioned the need for 30-round magazines for one's defensive carbines. Mercy, THIRTY-rounders? I guess some people confuse home defense with tactical house demolition, and I guess they never had to hug the ground "for real." (Just to be clear, I was never a soldier, but do wear a badge.)

cush · Post by **cush** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:37 pm

Living in the People's Republic of Kalifornia we cannot own "naughty" rifles, ie the AR's, AK's and the like. A Steve Young slicked up Rossi makes a dandy Urban Rifle. Mine's in .45 Colt and doesn't look provocative to the sheeple. I started with a .454 but it just wouldn't run .45 Colt reliably. I reload so tailoring loads is no problem. I use the same thing I normally shoot in my single actions, John Taffin's recommended 255 gr lead Keith style bullet over 8.0 gr of Unique to give about 850-900 fps. Safe in non Ruger single actions and the rifle and easy to shoot.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:19 am

I have a pair of Marlin CB-Ls with the 24 inch barrels here. Lemme tell ya what, set up for CAS with a "full race" job an short stroked to operate with my cowboy .45 Special rounds. The lever throw is a simple flick of the fingers without moving the thumb or breaking the wrist, I can bring 17+1 rounds of .45 caliber Gold Dots at ACP+P levels (and more if I like) to bear on any situation (that's 36 rounds if both rifles are loaded)
If that ain't enough, ya better just "Run, Forrest, run."

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:52 am

Rexster wrote:I support the idea of lever rifles for HD/SD, and like Griff, would rather have a true rifle chambering in the lever, and handgunS for interior use. Not that there is anything wrong with having a secondary lever rifle chambering a handgun round, of course.

Funny, I just got thoroughly overruled on another forum because I questioned the need for 30-round magazines for one's defensive carbines. Mercy, THIRTY-rounders? I guess some people confuse home defense with tactical house demolition, and I guess they never had to hug the ground "for real." (Just to be clear, I was never a soldier, but do wear a badge.)

I am sure you were conversing with those concerned with bad times (stuff hits the fan). For "everyday" home protection, as I stated already - I'm good with the levergun. But it doesn't hurt to own a good AR/AK/SKS/M1Carbine, etc., with a case of ammo and plenty of mags or stripper clips.

Cush - if I were you, I'd add a good SKS to your gun cabinet - for the above mentioned reasons. Especially if you're in an area that could be affected by riots.

Bad guys fear these more than probably anything else you could have in that situation. Just ask the asian business owners who defended their property back during the Watts riots.

ETA - now that's weird I typed "bad times" and "bad times" came out... might happen again. It did. bad times w/o the periods. Is this acronym forbidden here? If so, pardon me and mod's please delete.

Marlin336W · Post by **Marlin336W** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:29 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:EBR are fine but they are Sloooooooow. I can get 10 rounds fired off with my 92 Rossi before one can take the safety off a EBR.

A lever gun will be faster for 10 round than a EBR every time.

Don't think so. Levers are fast, but a AR15 is faster.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:06 pm

"Don't think so. Levers are fast, but a AR15 is faster."

Why, are the sights faster to acquire?

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:13 pm

TomD wrote:"Don't think so. Levers are fast, but a AR15 is faster."

Why, are the sights faster to acquire?

Either one in the right hands can be very fast to align the sights, but the AR is faster then the lever for 10 rounds, asuming that the man behind the gun is trained. However, of course the lever gun can be very fast, also if the right man is behind it, but my vote goes to the AR and I don't even own one, but I have in the past, and will probably get another before the election, just to have.

As far as the safety on the AR, mine would already be in firing position, the second I pickup the gun. The only safety I need is my finger in this siduation.

That being said, my home protection guns start with a Colt 1911, with a Browning A5 shotgun close by, but if I make it to my gunsafe, I am then within arm's reach of my loaded BLR in .308 win and my pre-64 Winchester 30/30, among other loaded weapons.

The only other thing I have to say is whatever pistol caliber leveraction one chooses, make darned sure that you shoot it plenty with chosen ammo, to know for sure that it is 100% reliable, many are not, if the wrong ammo is used.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:33 pm

There have been Matches in the Country, Cowboy's Vr's Cops.

An AR15 or SKS, AK47 has never won a race for 10 rounds against a Lever Gun, Never. By the time you get the gun sholdered and Safety off, 10 rounds will be on the target.

Same with a SAA against a 1911 for 5 shots, the 1911 looses.

If you want to get beat bad, go and try.

I will take my 44 cal 92 any day, for 0-100 yard. And with Iron sights.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:12 pm

cush wrote:Living in the People's Republic of Kalifornia we cannot own "naughty" rifles, ie the AR's, AK's and the like.

Not completely true, my friend. Take a look a these sites. Read the letter on the CA15 page

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index ... ex&cPath=9

Also this site, a little closer to you, and me.

http://www.metroshotfirearms.com/

Pathfinder · Post by **Pathfinder** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:08 am

Lefty Dude wrote:EBR are fine but they are Sloooooooow. I can get 10 rounds fired off with my 92 Rossi before one can take the safety off a EBR.

A lever gun will be faster for 10 round than a EBR every time.

Let me start with: Is the above quoted, post a joke? If not then let me say this:

I LOVE Lever Action Rifles. I shoot mine regularly and effectively. I consider myself a very capable levergun shooter.
AND
I'm not typically inclined to challenge someone's opinion since it is seldom productive, but the above statement forces my hand.

I'm not certain which EBR you are speaking of, nor am I certain that the user you have in mind is a newbie or what, but there is no way you will get your rounds down range faster than I can with my RockRiver AR.

In the time it will take you to rack your lever I'll have 2 rounds on target.

The action of the quality AR's (Bushmaster, RockRiver, Colt etc.) is mechanically faster than the human/ lever interface.

As for the idea that you can get 10rds out of your Rossi before I get my safety off: All I will say is, BS!

Gryphon Black · Post by **Gryphon Black** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:39 am

Man. Really got 'em fired up now, eh?

My tuppence. Or maybe it's thruppence...

A levergun is a useful weapon for defense, provided you have practiced with it and can hit what you aim at.
If it's what you want to use, go ahead. If you'd rather have an assault style or a shotgun, go ahead. They are also well proven. Plusses and minuses to all gun choices, choose something you're hands will know instinctively, and you know you can hit the target with.
Forget "tactical effectiveness" and all that stuff. Use what you are familiar with. If you can wake up from a sound sleep, grab it, and put a shot in the middle of a black blob climbing through your window without putting your glasses on first, you can count on it. If you are not yet that familiar with any of your firearms and want to know if you can train up on your levergun toward that purpose, the answer is emphatically a yes.

A little anecdote here. A deputy sherriff, new on the job, no backup, answered a call to a domestic, and the guy got the better of him. Shot him with a .45auto, and while he was down, shot him several more times. Thankfully, the perp was incompetent, and didn't bother aiming, so didn't kill the deputy right away. A neighbor granny lady heard the commotion, saw the sitch, and went and grabbed her little .22 rifle. She stepped out through the screen door and took aim at the perp's head. One shot, and he was down, dead. The deputy survived, and is now recovering.
Happened in my Mom's little hometown, she told me the tale.
It's more about what you can put to use well, and less about the "tactical ballistics".

And while you're at it, if you haven't chosen a caliber yet, you can't do better than .357, IMHO. The round is already well proven in pistols, it's readily available in any store that sells ammo, can be used to shoot most any kind of food if it comes to that, is light enough that you can train with it extensively without breaking the bank or your shoulder, and Marlin makes a lovely 1894c model with an 18.5 in barrel that would be quite handy in a close fight, compared to a 20in or longer. And you can also carry a revolver of your chosen style that shoots the same ammo. Reloading is also a snap, with any number of well established loads out there, and lots of available supplies and options.

There is no shortage of useful gun designs for a hypothetical fight. Personally, I chose a pair of Glocks in 40smith, one big one small, and a Mossberg 12gauge with a seven shot magazine. But my wife has the aforementioned .357mag combo, and I'm not sure but what she maybe chose better than me.
In the meantime, that little .357 rifle is a heck of a lot of fun to take to the range, and if I didn't like my 24in .45colt Marlin, I'd be lookin' ta git me one o' them tree-fitty-sevens.

Now go do what your gut tells you you can rely on, and forget the rest of these yammerheads, cuz once you get 'em started, they'll never turn loose of it!

Let us know what you work out, okay?

Gryphon

Lever gun for defense

Lever gun for defense

My 2 cents

Thanks

Thanks

Figured it out

Re: Figured it out

leverguns for self defense

Doubtful