OT: Horse Questions.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:41 am

Went & rode horses this weekend and my family is hooked. I've riden before but don't really know anything about the breeds of horses. Is there a breed that is easier to work with, for kids and/or people that don't anything about horses. From my understanding mares are usually easier to work with than geldins(sp) depends on when they were cut. Last geldin I had was pretty headstrong and never wanting to leave the other horses. Anyway, please help a wantabe cowboy out and educate me on some horse types. Also, something I forgot, is there something to look for when consider how well one travels? Like a certain gait as far as comfort in the saddle?

Johnny

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:09 pm

I AM A WANNABE COWBOY TO...
BUT HAVE BEEN AROUND HORSES THE LAST TEN YEARS OR SO...
AND ALL HORSES HAVE THERE OWN PERSONALITY....
AND ITS ALL ABOUT TRAINING....BY THE PERSON WHO
PLANS TO RIDE IT.....AND HOW THE HORSE IT TREATED
DURING TRAINING....
I DONT THINK BREED REALLY COMES INTO PLAY...
MY NEIGHBORS HAVE A BUNCH OF HORSES...DIFFERENT
BREEDS...MARES AND GELDINGS...FROM PAINTS, APPALOOSA's,
AMERICAN QUARTER HORSES AND A FEW OTHERS...
SOME RODE BETTERTHAN OTHERS...YOU NEED TO GO TO
A TRAINER/BREEDER AND TALK TO THEM...
I WAS TRAINING AND AN AMERICAN QUARTER HORSE A FEW
YEARS BACK..PRETTY MUCH THE SAME WAY THE REAL
"HORSE WHISPERER" DOES.....SOME GUY IN CALIFORNIA...
FORGOT HIS NAME...ANYWAY THIS HORSE WAS REALLY HEAD
STRONG AND WOULD NOT LISTEN TO ANY COMMANDS...
AFTER AN HOUR IN THE ROUND PEN...THIS HORSE FOLLOWED
ME ALL AROUND THE RANCH....WOULD NOT LEAVE MY SIDE...
THAT SAME AFTERNOON, HE TOSSED HIS OWNER...
THEN AGAIN....I HAVE KNOWN 1 HORSES FROM BIRTH....A PAINT
AND A STALLION...
AND THAT HORSE COULDNT WAIT TO KICK ME....

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:10 pm

Blackhawk,

My wife an I breed and raise horses and I have one piece of advise.
Wait and learn. Find a local expert, like a trainer, who you can trust. There are a lot of shady dealers in the horse biz and you don't want to get off on the wrong foot.
Feel free to MP me if you want some specific info.

Bob A

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:34 pm

Thanks gentlemen. From the little I know that's kinda what I figured but was hoping for something more.

Johnny

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:49 pm

I worked with horses (American Saddlebreds, Hackney Ponies and Standardbreds) for many years at a major show stable and breeding farm. What I can vouch for is the fact that horses are like people, each has its own personality within the gamut of equine behavior. Each has a predisposition for a certain talent shaped by centuries of selective breeding. I have worked with World Champions that were astounding in their talent for show, fiery when in the ring, yet kind and cooperative in the stable. One particular mare was as kind and people oriented as a loyal family dog, she loved children especially, yet when in harness she was never defeated. Same with a particular Hackney gelding who was also a World Champion harness pony, he was a firebrand in the ring and a big friendly dog in the stall. Others were dim and aloof, and a few outlaw and mean to the point where they had to be destroyed. Most however, were quite friendly and easy to work with. These horses were, of course, socialized to humans having been worked with 12 hours per day in a professional training environment.

I agree with Bob A, you need to associate with horses more before making up your mind. Try www.equusite.com for an online resource, check out available magazine resources. The Horse Magazine ( www.thehorse.com ) will acquaint you with equine health issues and problems (expenses) that you could become involved with.

Good breeds to check out for riding are the gaited Tennessee Walking Horse, Rocky Mountain Horse and (gulp, dare I say it) the smaller Paso Fino breed. These horses have a smooth gait that is easy on the rider. Then there is the Quarter Horse, Arabian, Appaloosa and good old mustang.

Horses can be a delight, a way of life, but require a real commitment in time and resources. Somehow the time, commitment and responsibility becomes the reward.

One consideration: The woman I worked for lived in a 23,000 square foot Georgian Manor ( www.ultimatedynasty.net/filoliphotogallery1.html ), had another estate in Hawaii, owned a steamship company, and had a private horse express rail car to ship the horses to an eastern show. So consider the expense first.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:01 pm

As a lady friend once told me, "if it flies, floats or (& I'll add 'has four hooves') that you ride; RENT IT!"

I've been around horses since I was six, owned, bought & sold many; and the answer to any equine related question is a big, qualified, "MAYBE!"

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:06 pm

Wrangler John is correct .. horses are a Way of Life.

That means (in the long run) a new set of friends and people you hang out with. Not that your old friends won't come around or anything .. but you will be spending your time and money in a totally different social setting.

Speaking of money - whatever horse(s) you end up with will need their feet trimmed and shod. Check the prices in your areas. Years ago I had a shoeing business and charged $10 a horse. These days well over $100 per horse is not uncommon in some places.

If you do not have enough pasture to graze your horses you will need to figure the cost of feed. Even if you do have pasture there are always suppliments etc.

When Wrangler John said "time - commitment - resources" he meant "almost all of your time, total commitment (sell the boat, you won't be going to the lake much) and most of your money (you have to have saddles and other gear) ...

It's almost like joining a Church!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:31 pm

Sounds like yall are really trying to talk me into this!?

It won't be any time soon to get a horse since it'll be up to me to do everything. My wife was asking me last night how much land it would take for a horse to kept on and I said 5 acres with good grass. Maybe too much but I'd rather have too much than not enough. Plus, I just want the land. There are several places around me that I can get a horse from, but like yall said, time and money are the biggest components. Neither of which I have to give right now. But the important thing is the seed is planted and my family really enjoyed riding. So since its no horse in the immediate future I will continue to take them riding (its fairly close to us anyway) and keep the seed growing. I'd love to have a good pair of horses and mules one day.

Johnny

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:37 pm

By the way, here is a link in case anyone is looking for a horse.

Just select your state. I found some pretty good deals, or so a horse greenhorn like me found, in Arkansas.

http://equisearch.equine.com/horses/

I only searched thru a few pages but found this 5yr old gelding, maye a little pricy but he looks to be of good stock.

http://equisearch.equine.com/Horses/ad_ ... d860b2&p=3

Johnny

Longfin · Post by **Longfin** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:14 pm

Everything that has been said is right on target. As for me and mine we prefer Tennesee Walkers.

and I have to agree that renting maybe the correct decision for some folks. Horses are a hugh responsibility.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:25 pm

Good trail horses come in all breeds. Before you buy one test drive it for an afternoon ride. You get a much better feel for it than just riding it around an arena. Plus safty is the number one thing. Being able to ride in around the barn does not make it trail safe. You need to see how it behaves when deer jump out and grouse take off. Remember the horses means of defense is to RUN AWAY RUN AWAY ! There are alot of horse traders out there. If a horse likes to buck , walk away . There is plenty of good horses out there.

There is alot of breeders that will try to suck alot of money out of you, so make sure you shop around. Get to know the horse community around you. People with good horses that they have to part with like to know what kind of home they are going to. They would rather sell them to a good home at a reduced rate than just anybody in the paper.

As far as breeds Quarter horses are on the mellow end and arabs are on the hyper end of the spectrum. All horses get sour if not riden alot. They get fat , dumb and lazy . Just like anyone can . So you need to beable to ride them frequently. They are not a dirt bike , can't just park it in the corner for a long time and expect it too perform the same as the last time you rode it.

My family has morgans ,appalosa, foxtrotter, rocky mountains. I would have to say that the rocky mountains are the mellowest breeds that I have ever worked with. They are totaly kid safe. I have never seen the ones we have ever spook over anything. They are mellow like a quarter horse but smarter. Meaning you don't have to show them the same thing over and over again before they remember it. They catch on quicker. Tennesee walkers are a breed I would look into also.

The gaited breeds are tennesee walkers, rocky mountain, foxtrotters, paso finos and there is others. Gaited just means instead of a 4 speed you get a 5 or 6 speed. Appalosas and morgan also can be gaited . My morgan is . Look for the term single -footed . That means they have a gear between walk and trot.

Also you have good solid ground that grows grass all year long . Then you can figure 2 horses per 5 acres. If you have access to trails it's alot of family fun. It's like hunting, just another reason to get out and explore.
Good Luck !

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:33 pm

I agree with everything said about getting an education before you dive right in. Horses aren't like dogs. You can't throw your horse in the back seat and take off for a weekend. It's definitely a commitment just owning a horse. Let alone giving them the time it takes to keep them acclimated to being ridden. Finding a person in the horse business you can trust is the first priority. Then listen, watch and question everything you can about horses. You'll be surprised as to how simple it is to have horses and enjoy them, after you get your doctrate in equines. Then you can start your practice.

morgan in nm · Post by **morgan in nm** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:46 pm

I have been training horses for only about a year now and the best one I have is a thoroughbred gelding that I use to pack and trail ride. In the area I live, the quarter horse is the most common breed you find but in my experience, they get kinda headstrong and lazy. My thoroughbred gelding came off of the tracks a few years ago when he lamed up (it has since healed a couple of years ago) but he has a lot of heart and I know he won't leave me or buck. He does a good job roping, chasing calves, carrying my browning 86 and just about anything I want him to do. I have never shot off of him yet but after a couple more years, that will be his next job.

By the way, mares are fine for the most part but they are a pain to ride once a month. But thats just my little bit of experience.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:19 pm

As far as breeds Quarter horses are on the mellow end and arabs are on the hyper end of the spectrum.

How about a half quarter horse/half Arabian?

I had to use him to put a head strong (to put it Nicely) cow back where she belonged this evening. Almost a rodeo.

I've been where I could have horses of my own for about ten years. I still have a lot to learn, but I'm having a good time doing it. Only one broke leg so far (mine).

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:20 am

Judging from your two previous post I would recommend possibly leasing a horse at a local stable or nearby farm first. Horses are indeed a lifestyle and when you honestly dont have a need for them or use them frequently they soon become a burden. As far as the prosective horse that you posted, I will just caution you. NO HORSE IS BOMBPROOF!!! Which is what the owner has stated for the temperment. Also, you spoke of specific breeds and temperments. IMO, a sour horse is not due to breed but more of neglect and thinking you can ride once a month and have him do everything perfect. A good horse is handled daily.

crs · Post by **crs** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:18 am

For kids and ladies, Welsh ponies are hard to beat (do not eat as much as larger horses, either).
Here is our newest arrival(last week), Doppler, with his mother, Breeze:

And posing in the corral:

However, shopping around is the key to happiness (like dating?). My daughter went through thoroughbreds and Q horses before she settled on Welsh ponies and is now satisfied.

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:21 am

Anyone have experience with "mountain horses"? I hanted several times in northern B.C. with an outfitter who had large horses that were a mix of draft horse and quarter horses. My favaorite was a dappled grey mare who was half Percheron(spelling?) and quarter horse.This was one big horse. I am 6'2" and I could just see over the horse standing beside it and it was a job getting up on the horse. But riding the horse was like sitting in a rocking chair. Rode 10 hours one day sheep hunting. When I got back to camp, thought I'd be stiff, in stead felt like I had spent the day in my easy chair. This horse took you up mountains and across rivers with steady power , like a big diesel. Other horses danced and scrambled to get my big body up montains, this delight just put those big hooves up the hill and away we went. Tried to buy her for 10 years with no luck. sadly shes gone to horse heaven now.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:30 am

I'm amazed at you levergunners, your knowledge about these horses, and good advise. If I was going to buy a used Boeing 747, I'd probably be best served to come here for advise on where to get one and how much to pay!! intersting topic.

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:10 am

Being born and raised on a cattle ranch which I still run, I've been horseback more than I've been afoot. I've been breaking my own and other's horses and mules for over 25 years and there are some things that I notice about 'problem' horse that come here to get lined out.

1. Green people want to buy colts for some reason. Happens a lot and is not a good mix. Get an experienced, broke gelding that's been used a bunch. Yes I've got some good mares but at certain time of the month they can be hard to live with and tend to fight more than the geldings that I've used.
2. Pay attention to what you feed it. Most of them that come to me are over fed/under worked. I'd wager that more than half are on too hot a feed ration for the amount of work they do and it tends to go right to their head. I'm not saying to starve them mind you.
3. This will probably get some blood boiling but, stay away from the 'hot' breeds for a while. I know of some good horses in all breeds but for the occasional rider they can be too much. Lots of walkers, foxtrotters, morgans, and arab crosses wind up here too. I see more quarter horses with problems but am sure it's because there are more of them around this area. Bigbear mentioned the draft cross. Mixing a little cold blood in makes for a nice horse and there is a reason lots of outftitters use them. They are usually good caretakers.

There's more to it than that, but in my lifetime of using horses to work cattle, guide and pack, etc. this is what I've found. I have a horse saddled nearly 365 days a year and harnessed up over 300 days a year. Worked with quite a few breeds too but not all of them.
Horses and kids are a great mix, be safe and have fun.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:35 am

20cows wrote:
As far as breeds Quarter horses are on the mellow end and arabs are on the hyper end of the spectrum.
How about a half quarter horse/half Arabian?

I had to use him to put a head strong (to put it Nicely) cow back where she belonged this evening. Almost a rodeo.

I've been where I could have horses of my own for about ten years. I still have a lot to learn, but I'm having a good time doing it. Only one broke leg so far (mine).

Very Handsome

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:54 am

If you have pasture and lots of space this helps with the cost.

Horses can be a very expensive hobby.

And just have deep pockets for the care & feeding if you do not have pasture.

Like was said, the shoeing & hoof triming can be expensive. It should be done every 6 to 8 weeks.

I bred & owned Arabs & half Arabs. Kept me real busy for a lot of years.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:17 pm

brucew44guns wrote:I'm amazed at you levergunners, your knowledge about these horses, and good advise. If I was going to buy a used Boeing 747, I'd probably be best served to come here for advise on where to get one and how much to pay!! intersting topic.

I agree, that's why I come here.

Good advise from all and pretty much what I figured as far as working/time with horses. I've only owned one gelding and likes been mentioned, didn't have enough time to work with him so he turned pretty stuborn and I sold him to a guy that had the time to work with him.

Johnny

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:41 pm

I have found that horses are like boats, if you don't use them they are expensive and if you do use them they are expensive. So use them a lot if you buy one and get your money's worth. It's an all or nothing deal. IMHO

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:06 pm

CRS has a good point. You don't have to ride horses to have a good time with them. Ponies are a less expensive alternative, and everyone in the family can work them, if you learn to drive them instead of ride! A simple jog cart or governess's cart will work, they come with pneumatic bicycle tires and in the right local you can even use them to run down to the corner market! Driving is a good alternative for handicapped folk's that can't ride well anymore (the old farm manager I worked for had so many knee injuries from Army Remount service and movie stunting, he no longer rode, but he was a superb driver winning many championships).

The Welsh is a good breed, as is the lowly Shetland, but the Hackney (a cross between the Welsh and Standardbred Horse) is a bit warm blooded for kids or average Joe's - but they are magnificent performers. The Shetland Pony is reputedly the strongest horse pound for pound. Remember these smaller breeds were developed for use in mines, hauling ore carts. Even the Miniature Horse can pull a lightly loaded cart and be useful as more than a pasture ornament.

Just another facet of the horse world to consider. For us old scared up buckaroos that tried to fly without wings and land without wheels, driving is about all we have left.

Rod WMG · Post by **Rod WMG** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:16 am

All nice looking animals. I particularly like the 20 cows "rodeo horse!"

crs · Post by **crs** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:09 am

As per Wrangler John's comments, here is a Welsh pony pulling a cart with two ladies aboard. This is in East Texas(note pine trees) at the Lazy J horse farm where we bought our Welsh ponies.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:26 pm

Here is a pic of my youngest daughter with her horse.