Proper usage of Crescent Butt?

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:47 am

After reading Singleshots thread referring to the .50-95 chambered in the Winchester '76 and the comments regarding the crescent butt plate, what is the proper usage of it?

My grand father told me it was for the crook of the arm by the elbow, others have said it was for the upper arm placement, and others still use it against their shoulder like a shotgun stock...

Personally, I've tried all three methods I know and they all work.

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:56 am

I believe KirkD had a good post showing proper technique. I believe the proper technique to be the upper arm, right about where the arm become the shoulder...or just to the outside of that area.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:38 am

I believe it was a carry over from muzzle-loaders and that men being smaller it worked with their body shape in what we now think of proper positioning of the rifle butt. Everything else is an adaptation of an inappropriate design. I won't have a gun with a crescent butt that isn't deep enough to use comfortable on my shoulder.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:49 am

There was an extensive post on the old board about this complete with pics from KirkD on his approach. I am more in the Hobie camp here.

This is the only one I have, it fits in my shoulder in the normal way but it is only a 30-30. I want a shotgun type butt for anything heavy.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:56 am

Hobie , and OS +1

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:00 am

I've never been able to get comfortable with a crescent butt, particularly with anything fairly powerful. I had the crescent cut off my Browning 1886 rifle and had a flat pad put on it. Finally found a shotgun butt for it.

Some of the 94 commemoratives had pretty open crescents, and weren't too bad. I'd still opt for a shotgun butt whenever possible.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:29 am

I have cresents on a 94 in 38-55, 1895's in 30-40 and 30-06 and an 1886 in 45/70. The 45/70 with hot loads is the only one that is the least bit harsh. For hunting use-- it would be unnoticable. I limit myself to 5 shot strings at the bench then switching guns and returning later for more with the 86. It seems to work for me.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:32 am

I hate to refer anybody to the old forum, but it's still there and so is KirkD's thread on the correct way to use the crescent buttplates. Here's the link:
http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30828

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:20 pm

@ 6' and ~200 lbs. I ain't necessarily "large", the cresent butts on my Hawken, Win '73,'86, '92 & '94s all fit me pretty good and are not uncomfortable to shoot. However, anything more powerful than the .45-70 in that '86, I'm sure would be painful.

It's been my observation that larger, fleshier guys have a more difficult finding a place wher the points of the crescent buttplte don't gouge or pinch, or really guys don't have enough area to spread the recoil out.

I have found that ability to aborb recoil increases thru exposure; and the opposite is also true.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:27 pm

On the old forum KirkD had posted an excellent "picture-essay" on this topic...

41_Marlin · Post by **41_Marlin** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:48 pm

An old (70s) article claims there is no better buttplate for quick shots than the cresent. I personally love em. I shoot em like KirkD showed in his thread. All are carbines including my muzzleloader and they do shoulder really quickly and consistently for me.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:50 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:On the old forum KirkD had posted an excellent "picture-essay" on this topic...

YK,

Look two posts up from yours. I posted the link.

J

e

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:02 pm

J Miller wrote:
Ysabel Kid wrote:On the old forum KirkD had posted an excellent "picture-essay" on this topic...
YK,

Look two posts up from yours. I posted the link.

J e

Problem I have when I get to reading too fast while doing more than one thing at a time!!! Trying to squeeze a few reads and posts in while the wife has the kids at the barber shop!

Thanks Joe!!!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:28 pm

I am 6 feet and 200 pounds for what it's worth, and I definitely prefer crescent buttplates on all my rifles for some strange reason. One thing that I don't think I mentioned before is that when levering in another round in my '86, the down stroke of the lever can cause the metal shotgun butt to slide down a bit if I'm not shoving the butt hard enough into my shoulder with the other hand. The crescent butt, on the other hand,hooks around the top of my upper arm and gives increased stability when fast levering in another round. The upper arm has a lot more give to it than the shoulder, so felt recoil is reduced. I actually seldom notice recoil from a standing position with my 45-70 with the crescent butt. I think the arm must absorb it all ... kind of like a spring. My shoulder, on the other hand, has no give to it ... just steel shotgun butt on bone and flesh.

I must also say that for the first 30 years of my shooting life, I only had rifles with a shotgun butt and I still shot off my upper arm, not my shoulder, so I'm not using the upper arm position merely to adapt to crescent butts.

P.S. For those who missed the link further up, here's a photo of how I place the crescent butt:

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:31 pm

I gotta agree with KirkD. Crescent is the way to go if you have the body for it. I love my for shooting plus they just look better to my eye.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:36 pm

Doesn't look like you've improved any on that farmers tan KirkD...plus the new beard is an improvement if I say so myself

IMHO your pics show exactly how it's done!

LeverBob

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:47 pm

Crrescent buttplates look vintage, sexy or whatever, but the proper use of the crescent buttplate is as a door stop. They work fairly well in that capacity.

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:19 pm

I think it was the first of this year somewhere I read that the crescent style was made for the mounted horseman , It seem to work for a lot of folks for a long time. I shoot the same as the picture and it just seems natural .from the first time I picked the rifle up. Just my .02 .............MUTT

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:54 pm

I tend to like them as long as the gun fits me well.
They fall into the same place on my shoulder/upper arm without thinking about it very naturally, but not all end up with the sights aligned. A flat shotgun type is more forgiving that way.

I like them for the most part.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:56 pm

Griff wrote:@ 6' and ~200 lbs. I ain't necessarily "large", the cresent butts on my Hawken, Win '73,'86, '92 & '94s all fit me pretty good and are not uncomfortable to shoot. However, anything more powerful than the .45-70 in that '86, I'm sure would be painful.

It's been my observation that larger, fleshier guys have a more difficult finding a place wher the points of the crescent buttplte don't gouge or pinch, or really guys don't have enough area to spread the recoil out.

I have found that ability to aborb recoil increases thru exposure; and the opposite is also true.

I seem to have entered the "fleshier" phase of life...

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:23 pm

I think Mutt has it right, also my 'ole late Grandpa. Military troops since the mid 1700's pretty much were equiped with more or less a shotgun style butt, then when being mounted (on a horse guys) you started to see more crescents.

I'm trying to find an old book I had, written in the 1880's, it was an illustration to the finer art of shooting. In it they illustrated the crescent resting in the inner crook of the elbow while the other hand supported the forestock and holding the reigns. It referenced the holding of a rifle as such, as being very similar to how an Indian would fire his bow and arrow. allowing for the undulations of the horse.

My Gramps said the crescent shape worked in the crook because the manufacture didn't have to worry as much about custom lengths, people are much closer in size across the forearm than shoulders and such.

Course I just shoot the same as all the rest of mine and it ends up at the shoulder. Gotta practice the elbow deal while riding my bike!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:26 pm

LeverBob wrote:Doesn't look like you've improved any on that farmers tan KirkD...plus the new beard is an improvement if I say so myself

This winter has been a little hard on the nice farmer's tan I had last summer. Now I have to start all over again.

Bluehawk · Post by **Bluehawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:40 pm

I do int particularly like to shoot off the bench . I DO for testing new loads and sighting in. I would rather shoot offhand and from field positions.
The Crescent Butplates and made for off hand shooting and hunting conditions and NOT for bench shooting . They ARE uncomfortable off the bench . BUT far more stable for offhand shooting .
I have traded several rifles and carbines over the years to get rid of FLAT or "Shotgun " butplates in order to get the same gun wih a crescent but plate. I have one Marlin 95 with a nice curved butt plate and it shoots 400 Speer bullets in front of 53 Grains of 3031 and 350 Grain Speer/Hornady bullets with 55 Grains of 3031 and I have no problem with those loads They are not fun off the bench but they are not what I would call brutal either. Brutal to me was shooting 3.5" 12 Ga rifled slugs off the bench from a MODERN auto loader with a "Shotgun "but plate worst recoil experience in my life , worse than the VERY FEW founds I fired years ago from a H&R single shot 10ga 3.5" magnum . WITH A SHOT GUN BUT PLATE AND RECOIL PAD

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:46 pm

A little FYI...

I shot 50 rds of moderate .45-70 on Sunday. Mild bruising to the upper bicep.

The guy I went with shot the same number of factory .30-30 from a 94... hes 50+ lbs heavier and 2-3x as bruised - because he was trying to shoot a crecent like a shotgun.

Bicep Pocket works...

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:58 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:A little FYI...

I shot 50 rds of moderate .45-70 on Sunday. Mild bruising to the upper bicep.

The guy I went with shot the same number of factory .30-30 from a 94... hes 50+ lbs heavier and 2-3x as bruised - because he was trying to shoot a crecent like a shotgun.

Bicep Pocket works...

After you compared bruises, was the other fellow convinced about shooting from the bicep pocket?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:10 pm

KirkD wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:A little FYI...

I shot 50 rds of moderate .45-70 on Sunday. Mild bruising to the upper bicep.

The guy I went with shot the same number of factory .30-30 from a 94... hes 50+ lbs heavier and 2-3x as bruised - because he was trying to shoot a crecent like a shotgun.

Bicep Pocket works...
After you compared bruises, was the other fellow convinced about shooting from the bicep pocket?

I think so...