Colt SAA questions--what to look for when buying used

[Mich Hunter]

Well, this is yet another bucket list item that I have wanted for quite some time but haven't came across the right deal yet. I consider myself pretty darn knowledgable in many firearm platforms (have attended many armorer schools for Gov) but have zero knowledge when it comes to the mechanics and what to look for in a Colt SAA. This makes me extremely
nervous when looking at used Colt SAA's as I am not quite sure what to look for. I have dissected many a Ruger and S&W DA's and SA's but never a Colt. I am also confused on the generation differences and what is preferred model/gen. Are early guns of better quality? Are they worth the money? I have always wanted either a 5.5" or 4.75" in 45LC

[Pete44ru]

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IMO, there's not much, except maybe price, that's a deal-breaker (or non-repairable) on a Colt SAA.

Any issues (rust, bluing and/or CCH finish loss, improper/broken grips, etc) can pretty much be used as a bargaining tool to get to a price you might be more comfortable with.

Also IMO, the 2nd Gen SAA, might be better for use with modern loads than an early, pinch-frame (ahead of the cylinder) blackpowder version.

OTOH, one way to obviate any issues would be to spring for a new or NIB/used example.


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[Griff]

I'm no expert, but generally, condition, fit and finish are three of most obvious, important considerations... 1st generations generally bring the "big bucks", especially in pristine condition. Of these, there are two very important features, 1st the BP frames, these are iron, not steel, and usually notable for the round, "bullseye" ejector rod vs. the crescent shape of later guns. Colt SAAs were not considered smokeless proofed until about 1906, IIRC. There is almost no notable difference between 1st and 2nd gen guns except the checkering of the hammer and date of manufacture, 2nd gens being re-cataloged in 1952 thru 1972... but late 1st gen guns were similarly hammered. I don't have it readily available, but my reference book notes the year and approximate serial number of most changes to the SAA, Yearly Variations of the Colt Single Action Revolver by Keith Cochran details the numerous and often confusing (to me) variations. Such as introduction of the eagle to the grip, aforementioned ejector rod change, hammer, firing pin and many others. I use it mostly to verify the age of a particular gun; i.e., if it has later features on an early frame, I know it's either been repaired, or is a "parts gun."

Early 3rd gen guns have a pressed in sleeve in the cylinder, all other generations, including late 3rd gen guns have a removable cylinder pin bushing.

When buying a "shooter", I insist that I able to inspect the timing. Pulling the hammer back and watching for when the bolt rises... it "should" rise at or near the beginning of the ramp and there should be an audible "snick" at it falls into the locking slot, right at the full extension of the hammer. NO overtravel on the hammer, and as you pull it back you should be able to hear all four clicks; 1st - as the sear moves into the hammer "safety notch", 2nd - as the sear moves to the "loading notch" releasing the bolt and freeing the cylinder to spin freely, 3rd - as the bolt is releasing off the cam and hit the ramp on the cylinder, and 4th - as the sear engages the final, notch in the hammer. Ensure the bolt stays in position as the hammer is lowered. Next is the amount of cylinder travel when the gun is at full lockup, 1 or 2 thousands is ok, in a used gun... less is better, check on all 6 cylinders, this ensures that the bolt slots at each position are not enlarged, nor is the bolt slot in the frame. Next check is "end shake", or back and forth movement of the cylinder, I consider between .003" & .007 as good, as I tend to shoot a fair amount of BP, and fouling buildup on the face of the cylinder can inhibit ease of rotation. A feeler gauge is best, but as you feel more, you'll be able to tell by the amount of shake whether it's excessive... 2 factors affect end shake, hammer of the back of the cylinder on the recoil shield and peening of the cyl. pin bushing at the front. Both conditions are repairable. The 3rd cause is frame stretch... while I don't know of any way to shrink a stretch frame, you can set back the barrel and put in a longer sleeve or cyl. pin bushing to re-fit the cylinder to the longer frame opening.

Running a tight patch down the barrel will tell you if there are any anomalies there, & with the cylinder in place, it will also give you a feel for how well the chambers align with the barrel. No one likes being next to a revolver that "spits" lead from the cylinder gap.

Pull the cylinder and inspect the top front of the top strap just behind the barrel for flame cutting. Some cutting will be normal, but look at it critically... and know that hot loads will stress this area... hot loads have no place in a Colt SAA. Keep 'em under SAAMI specs for the cartridge & gun, and you're not likely to ever have a problem. I keep my CAS ammo at about 700-750 fps with 160 grain bullets. And while I sometimes carry my SAA for SP duty, I keep them, for 200 grain flying ashtrays as formerly made by Speer, around 1,000 fps from my 4-¾" barrels, and around 950 for 240 grain HPs. The 200s were made for those velocities; but, you have to watch the box markings for 240s as they make some that are for the higher velocities of the 45Mag and other high pressure loads, so I wouldn't expect expansion at the lower 45 Colt velocity to be as good.

[M. M. Wright]

1st Gen: 1873 to 1940 serial no. 357,859. Early guns to about SN 190XXX are usually black powder only. At about this point Colt began to mark the trigger guard with a small triangle containing a VP for verified proof for smokeless powder. There are many small variations through the oughts and teens but mostly these are collector guns. They need to have all three serial no.s matching, the correct grips and be correctly timed.
2nd Gen: 1956 serial no. 001SA (I think) 'til about 1975 serial no. 73,319.
3rd Gen: 1976-1978 80,000SA-99,999SA
1978-1993 SA01001-SA99,999
1993-1999 S02001A-S26,699A
Production continued but this is all I have.

These are just my opinions so be guided accordingly. I think the 2nd gens are the finest SAAs ever made. Modern steel, finished and assembled correctly. The only issues being cylinder bore diameters sometimes tighter than barrel diameters. This can be fixed.
However, the current 3rd gens are also very good. Maybe just as good as the 2nds.

Front sight variations: Approximately the first 200 guns produced had the "pinched" frame where the narrow vee notch was cut in a small bridge across the groove on top of the frame. All others had the small vee at the rear of the groove until 1931 when the square notch was cut to match the flat topped front sight.

Early 1st gen guns need to have the correct hammer knurls.
1873 1st style long knurl
2nd style shorter knurl to 1905
3rd style curved border to 1909
4th style no border to 1936
All of the above are case hardened hammers. 1936 til 1940 have bright sided hammers with borderless knurling.

There is a lot more but mostly it is about condition like Griff says.

[Mich Hunter]

I appreciate the education gentlemen. It's going to be awhile before I get back and am able to handle one but I am curious to see which barrel length has the best balance. I liked the 4.75 in of the Ruger SAA's but am told the Colts are a little lighter of frame (Rugers as you all know are overbuilt. Love them)

[Booger Bill]

I have heard numerous times that early 3rd generation colts have spotty workmanship. They tell me the latter ones made now are made as good as they ever have been. The guts are as simple as it gets. I am a member on the Colt site. There is a ton of good info over there. You need to check them out for the info. I own 4 Colt single actions.

[kooz]

Hi Mich Hunter,

I don't claim to be an expert on Colts, but here is some of my recent experiences with .45 Colt chambered Colt's. I have had a couple third generation SAA's and a New Frontier, and measured several dozen of these guns throughout the years looking for a "good" one with properly sized cylinder throats . I have not ever seen a Colt in .45 Colt that had properly sized chamber throats, never seen one with throats that were smaller than .456 and most were larger, up to .460. Also have never seen a Colt chambered in .45 Colt (only speaking about 4 3/4" bbls) that had a tall enough front site to regulate 250-265gr (normal weight) bullets . I am not trying to say they are all like that, but these problems certainly are common and have been present on every single Colt I have ever been able to measure. Just things to look out for if you plan on shooting the gun and expect to have an accurate gun that will shoot to point of aim with standard ammo.

I have in the past been pretty much anti-replica, and try to only buy American whenever possible, but I have had my eyes opened with a couple of recent purchases of Uberti El Patron replicas, the Uberti replicas have come a long way since I last tried them about 12years ago. The two guns I have here are of recent manufacture 2014 & 2015. All tolerances are where they should be and sights regulate to standard ammo easily. They also come with Wolff springs and an action job, I would say from a functional standpoint, for a guy who is going to use the gun for shooting/carring and NOT collecting, these guns are twice the gun that a Colt is easily.

Not trying to be confrontational or anti-Colt , I know a lot of people have genuine Colts here and that they are the only "authentic real deal" when it comes to SAA's, but if you plan on actually using the gun you could be in for a big fat surprise after your first range outing if you have not selected a nice gun that has all its dimensions in order. Good luck on your Colt hunt.

Kooz

[Griff]

I appreciate the education gentlemen. It's going to be awhile before I get back and am able to handle one but I am curious to see which barrel length has the best balance. I liked the 4.75 in of the Ruger SAA's but am told the Colts are a little lighter of frame (Rugers as you all know are overbuilt. Love them)

That's like asking whether blondes or redheads are the most popular... But it really seems like the majority prefer brunettes!

Many folks say the 5-½" are a good compromise between the handiness of the 4-¾ and the pointability of the 7-½". (BTW, the Ruger short barrel length on their SAA is 4-5/8")! I think it really comes down to a matter of personal choice... some folks feel the 7-½" is the best balancing of the three standard barrel lengths. Some feel it's the 4-¾, and you just know the 5-½" has it adherents.

I have 5 4-¾" guns and one 7-½". four of them are in .45 Colt with two being .38/.357M. The two .38s are the wife's cowboy guns, one being a 4-¾" the other the 7-½ gun! In a recent discussion, I asked her if she'd like to get a mate in the same barrel length, or would she like a pair in 5-½"? She flatly said, "I want the short barrels... the one I have is plenty accurate, and much easier to get out of the holster."

My advice is to just fondle as many of each as you can find and make your own mind up.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I have heard numerous times that early 3rd generation colts have spotty workmanship. They tell me the latter ones made now are made as good as they ever have been. The guts are as simple as it gets. I am a member on the Colt site. There is a ton of good info over there. You need to check them out for the info. I own 4 Colt single actions.

Not just the 3rd gen SAA's but their other revolvers of that era were hit or miss, too. This was the late 80's-early 90's guns. I had some here that were just wrong. An SAA with a cylinder that would lock up because the face had a .007 runout wobble!!!
A Python that shot too far to the right because the barrel wasn't turned full in by about 10 degrees.
Sadly they both came with test targets.

On the subject of SAA clones, the Uberti's are much better now than their old "D" cam guns which were notorious for going out of time.
But, I think the very best clone now is the Pietta made guns, like the EMF Great Western II's. These guns are 2nd gen configured, even the thread pitch is the same. They even have firing pin bushings and pressed in hardened bolt cams like the originals but EMF did have them change the weakest link in the colt action, the leaf type hand spring. They changed to the Ruger style coil spring and plunger.