Knife Build: attaching wood handles

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:17 am

So I am stumped. I have this knife blade and some very pretty striped sugar maple wood for handles. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categorie ... CUMBERLAND Despite searching on the magical web I cannot find a demonstration for attaching knife handles with pins. Do I need to get pins that are slightly larger then the hole diameter? How do you peen? the rivets down to hold the wood? Or, is there another way where the pins can be flush with the wood? I feel a bit stupid in asking but hoping someone could give me some advice. Thanks!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:22 am

I found this...seems to make sense.
http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/130.htm

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:27 am

Thanks Blaine. I will study that.....looks good.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:38 pm

What is really easy are corbit bolts, screws or I think thats what there called, it's a bolt a flathead screwdriver fits , you drill like a 3/32 hole in the blade then a 3/16 hole in the handle material, then countersink with a 1/4 hole screw together , then grind smooth , looks like 1/4 in. Pins, I'll run to the shop get one and post pic. Be back in a min.
Hope this helps, holes have to line up good not be drilled on an angle
Paper and other stuff can be used to shim and such, fill in gaps, ect.
If I can help let me know and I'll try
Oh after you have everything lining up correct smear a small
amount of epoxy between handle material and blade then tightened down let dry then grind slowly with minimal heat.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat May 31, 2014 7:42 pm

.

I've always epoxied the wood slabs to the (full width) tang, then drilled holes the same diameter as the pins, after the epoxy is cured.

I drill a few holes through the tang before epoxying, where the pins won't be located, to help secure the epoxied grips to each other.

I do the pin drilling when the attached grips are still squared blocks, as it makes the assembly easier to level/plumb in the drillpress, prior to drilling the pin holes.

The (brass, usually) pins get ground/sanded down during the final shaping of the grip.

.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat May 31, 2014 8:27 pm

the tang is soft and easy to drill to 1/8", perhaps easier to find material for.

I clamp one scale to one side and use the tang to line up the holes, then flip and drill back thru the second scale. I use bamboo skewers as locator pins for jigging up and am thinking about just keeping them, epoxy saturation will bind everything together on carving type blades...

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sat May 31, 2014 9:33 pm

On the sugar maple scales if they are not stabilized they will shrink and swell, consider putting a touch of super glue on the backside of the scale, if it looks ok then saturate with the glue before starting, let it dry and get started, this will help with handle movement after your done.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat May 31, 2014 9:59 pm

Thanks to all of you for your input on this! I like the corbett bolt idea as it would provide a sure hold on the scales, but I am not sure I will use them on this particular knife. I kind of like the idea of the smaller brass pins. I am rehabbing another that it should be ideal for though. Thank you for those pics Plowboy. I don't have a drill press but my neighbor might let me have a go with his....looks like I will need one, either way to make straight holes. So, the main thing holding the scales to the handle(when using straight brass pins), is the epoxy itself? Can you slightly flatten the pins with a punch/anvil or will you run the risk of cracking the wood? This sugar maple should be good as it came from a guy who makes longrifles....some of his scraps but very pretty.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:07 pm

Chris,
I have 3 drill presses.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:08 pm

When you put the epoxy on them scales and the holes line up, put a little epox or super glue on the pins and push em through leaving them a fuzz long slowly peen each side then sand everything in smooth

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:10 pm

A small milling machine will drill a truer hole than a drill press, that may be something to considered down the road.
With a good vice.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:24 pm

Thank you Plowboy.....it is very much appreciated.
Mescalero....good to hear from you my friend. So, can I send you a bag of parts?

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:52 am

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:22 pm

Thank you brother.....I'll send them if I get in over my head.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:40 pm

Your welcome.lets see it when you get did.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:21 pm

Will do Plowboy.....here is a preview of another one that I had a while back that another person had put together.

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:36 am

After the holes are drilled, you can use a piece of brazing rod that is a snug fit, fill the hole with a 2 part epoxy, push the rod in and pull it back the be sure the rod is fully coated with the epoxy, and the set one side on a flat metal surface such as an anvil, and give the other side of the pin a few sharp raps from a hammer. It will cause the rod to swell a little, and the epoxy will hold it for a very long time. the only trick is to make sure the piece of rod you use is no more than 1/4th inch longer than absolutely flush with the handle. 1/8th is even better, and you can use gloves to keep the epoxy off your fingers. That is what I did.

edited due to slip of the fingers. Brazing rod was misspelled.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:53 pm

Thank you Piller! So, I like the slim rounded profile of the knife pictured above. I guess the trick will be getting all those pins just the right length. I can see why many folks go with three large/centered rivets or bolts as it looks easier.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:34 pm

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:29 pm

Dont leave us hanging on this handle job.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:32 pm

plowboy 45 wrote:Dont leave us hanging on this handle job.

Exactly....I might only live another 20 years or so.....

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:55 am

I like to very lightly counter-sink the rivet holes and peen the slightly too long pins to fill the counter sink then file/sand them flush. You have to try a few to get an idea how much extra material to leave when cutting your pins.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:41 am

I have decided it's time to get a drill press and a table jig saw for starters, and am browsing different venues. I work slow but pics will come! MMWright.....I will try that, thanks to you and all.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:18 am

I epoxied the scales last night using the bamboo for locaters. think I'll leave it that way, can't imagine the scales falling off.

898c.JPG

need to toughen up the sheath somewhat, eh?

Grizz

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:29 am

Pretty is as pretty does Grizz....that looks good. Yeah, the sheath might need a little reinforcement.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:15 pm

A promise is a promise.....still got 19.5 years left Blaine.....no sweat.

I made some mistakes. I let that slim 3/32 bit flex and get off angle on one of the pin holes which I had to patch up. Originally tried to drill out the tang from 1/10 inch holes to 1/8 as I couldn't find the correct pin stock size. The tang was too hard to drill out to 1/8. Then I realized that the 3/32 pin stock that TOW had would work just fine with the pre drilled 1/10 inch tang holes. Problem was I had already drilled out my fancy wood handles to 1/8, and had to scrap them and go with new wood which was much less fancy. Oh well, at least it is done, finally!

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:42 pm

Just in case Plowboy missed it. I have come to the opinion that my taste in knives differs a good bit from others. I love this style of knife. Now, for the sheath!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:19 pm

C. Cash wrote:Just in case Plowboy missed it. I have come to the opinion that my taste in knives differs a good bit from others. I love this style of knife. Now, for the sheath!

Interesting choil. Is there a tradition for that?

I love the powder horn. When we get orders to beat the rifles into plowshares you can fill the horn with anointing oil !

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:08 pm

HEY
I like it , you did a fine job
I like a big ol knife myself
Got one bilt now for my little brothers rig
Didn't comment earlier cus I been outa town till yesterday

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:36 pm

Thank you for the kind words! They bill this blade as a "Cumberland Knife" or something like it. Maybe not a common knife style historically, but I'm betting it's close in shape to some knives made in the 17-1800's South. The horn is my first scrimshaw attempt. I figured my boys would rather have something their Dad made(amateurish as it is) than something bought. Both were a lot of fun. Thanks again for all the help on this.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:11 am

Nice work! Like the powder horn too!

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:40 am

Thank you Brother. Hope all is with you and yours.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:51 am

C. Cash wrote:A promise is a promise.....still got 19.5 years left Blaine.....no sweat. I made some mistakes. I let that slim 3/32 bit flex and get off angle on one of the pin holes which I had to patch up. Originally tried to drill out the tang from 1/10 inch holes to 1/8 as I couldn't find the correct pin stock size. The tang was too hard to drill out to 1/8. Then I realized that the 3/32 pin stock that TOW had would work just fine with the pre drilled 1/10 inch tang holes. Problem was I had already drilled out my fancy wood handles to 1/8, and had to scrap them and go with new wood which was much less fancy. Oh well, at least it is done, finally!

this is nice work - pretty pins and very pretty grain on the scales

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:35 pm

Thank you Bulldog! Yeah, despite the goof ups, I'm pleased with how it came out. A learning experience and maybe will try again WITH a belt sander next time! The wonder of power tools.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:43 pm

I drill the tang for the pins first. I like to use either brass rod or stainless rod for my pins.
Next I fit the handle slabs to the knife and drill them using the tang as a drill guide. Then I glue the slabs and pins all on in one glue up using surgical tubing to clamp it all together while the epoxy glue sets up. The surgical tubing will release from the glue since it stretches. Filing and sanding later to finish.
If you use any oily/waxy tropical hardwoods for handles it will need to be cleaned with acetone before gluing to be sure it bonds.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:59 am

On this solingen blade, the tang was ultra hard Chuck. A drill press would barely touch it, and that was just trying to take holes from 1/10 to 1/8. I gave it to a machine shop thinking they could help but no go. I wonder if this is normal? Once I got the correct pin stock size(3/32) I epoxied one slab, drilled through the holes on the tang and through the one half, epoxied the other half and using the holes on the other side as pilot holes, drilled the full way through the handle, and pinned. I used Jorgensen clamps after each side was epoxied, but like surgical tubing idea.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:58 pm

That is a fine looking knife! I really like it!

Drilling small holes in wood can be tough, especially figured wood - that little flexy bit wants to just follow the grain whichever way is least resistant. About the only thing you can do is run the drill press fast and feed the bit slow - that effectively reduces the depth of cut with each revolution, decreasing the resistance and tendency to deflect. You do have to pull the bit back a lot and clear the wood from the flutes, it gets jammed in there hard with the higher rpm.

I'm surprised that machine shop couldn't work with the hardened steel - but maybe they didn't have a carbide endmill small enough. You can get little diamond grit burrs that will do it in a drill press. They're actually a lot cheaper than the carbide options.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:17 pm

You can draw the temper from the tang with a propane torch. I would wrap the blade with a wet washcloth and stop the heat from spreading past the tang with a bucket of water. The butt end can be dead soft with the hardness increasing as it approaches the guard area. This is how Tim Lively describes the procedure.

nice project, mine look goofy, but I like 'em anyway.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:46 pm

Like Grizz said, the tang does not need to be hardened as hard as the blade.
I would draw the temper of the tang to at least a dark straw color and a high speed drill should then be able to cut it using slow speed and pretty heavy pressure. If the drill bit slides on the surface rather than digging in it will surface work harden the steel and defeat the annealing.

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:46 pm

You can get some reasonably priced carbide bits from Harbor Freight, and they do a great job on hard steel if they are used in a drill press. They do not flex at all, so the slightest slip if you are using them in a hand held drill will snap them like a glass rod. They come from Harbor Freight in assortments, so you might not get what you are looking for, or you might get exactly what you need.