Why Rossi 92 in 45LC? Cant the 454 model shoot 45LC anyway?

[preventec47]

I could be wrong here but doesnt the 454 model shoot both
calibers equally well ?

[meanc]

Yeah, but you can't shoot a 454 in a 45colt.

Check the ballistics on a 454 then look at 45colt. you'll get the picture.

[TomD]

I'm currently buying a 454. The 454 is about the same overlength to the LC as the 357 is to the 38 sp, and the 44 mag to the 44sp. The one problem that seems to maybe exist is that in order to shoot CASS, the lowest pressure 45lc loads are so low pressure they often don't seal the chamber, and I have heard that soot can collect and cause a headspace like problem when subsequently shooting the 454. So whatever the case, if you decide to go this route and spend most of your time plinking the 45lc, be sure to check the chamber before firing some 454.

Another option might be to shoot 45 LC and if shooting heavy bullets out of the 45LC, and if you could find a crimping groove that would allow you to powder up the 45LC, while getting the same thing done as if shooting a 454 with the longer bullet, then maybe you could just do it all with the same brass 45LC brass. Anyone have any load ideas along those lines?

If I was thinking of the Brooklin special type thing where one uses a carbine for self defence at pistolish velocities, I would get a 45 chamber.

For Bear defence I would go the 454.

[Hobie]

Some guys like the .454 and some find the .45 Colt is enough gun.

[Griff]

The .45Colt can be pretty close to anything the 454 can be... in a gun strong enough to handle the pressures. So, IMO, why have the rifling further away than needed, if you're only planning on shooting slightly hot-rodded .45Colt loads? Just as the .38Spl is generaly more accurate in a .38Spl chamber, so too will be the .45Colt.

The issues of soot, etc in CAS is mostly a BP fouling issue. Unless one uses an exceedingly "dirty" smokeless with very light bullets & charges, it ain't a problem, leastways IME. A 3-way combination that's VERY easy to avoid.

Do NOT misunderstand me, if you need the ballistics of the .454 in factory ammunition, by all means proceed. But, if not... ?

[Old Savage]

The only 454 I saw looked like it has shot loose but others say they have ones that haven't.

[preventec47]

[quote="Hobie"]Some guys like the .454 and some find the .45 Colt is enough gun.[/quote]
.
My point exactly. If the 454 shoots the 45LC then it is a 45 Colt gun
for all intents and purposes and CAN BE a 454 also if you ever want it.

Has anyone here actually experienced the 454 chamber getting
dirty by shooting 45Colt smokeless ammo in it?

If so, then how difficult is it to gain access to it to clean it out?

I'm sure it's nothing like a bolt action but maybe the rear action
comes apart easy enough to gain easy access. I've heard of
that in somebodies lever action but I dont remember who the
mfg or what the model was.

[Griff]

Has anyone here actually experienced the 454 chamber getting dirty by shooting 45Colt smokeless ammo in it?

Not that I've heard. The cartridge headspaces in the rim, so headspace is not an issue, per se. Now, just as with those other big/little brother cartridges, the .38Spl/.357Mag, .44Spl/.44Mag, a steady diet of the smaller version WILL leave powder fouling in the unused portion of the chamber. IF NOT cleaned, this can lead to difficult chambering, possibly excessive pressuure and all that entails.

so, then how difficult is it to gain access to it to clean it out?

Some disassembly MIGHT be required. But hey, I clean after every use, I had it literally beat into me that my life depended on it.

I'm sure it's nothing like a bolt action but maybe the rear action
comes apart easy enough to gain easy access. I've heard of that in somebodies lever action but I dont remember who the mfg or what the model was.

Hint: cleaning rod, chamber brush = 2 pieces, insert from opposite ends, reassemble!

[L.F.Combs]

I have in my Puma .454, but it can be taken care of easily by reloading with a better powder. It really isn't that big a problem until you load a really hot load. I switched to loading a .454 case with Bulleye to match the performance of the .45LC, and you don't have to worry. It really is a problem that is over blown in many cases. As lon as you keep your gun good an clean you probably won't notice any problems.

[J Miller]

Lever guns are not like military arms or bolt actions. You won't be taking them totally apart for cleaning each time you go shooting.
Winchesters are not user friendly when it comes to total action stripping. And that is what you have to do to pull the bolts out.

Winchester designs are basically cleaned from the muzzle. So if if you shoot .45 Colts in a .454 Chamber, you'll need to scrub the thing with a good strong rod and a muzzle protector.

Constantly taking them apart to clean from the breach will exacerbate the wear and shorten the life of the gun.

Even the old Winchesters when fired with black powder were rarely taken totally apart for cleaning. That is because the thinner semi bottle necked cartridge cases were designed to seal the chambers and keep the fouling out of the actions. Of course they'd get dirty, but not like the straight walled pistol cartridge lever guns we have now. Especially when they are used with the light pressure cas type loads that don't expand the cases enough to seal the chambers.

The .454's are good when you want the heavy loads. If you want lighter loads, just load down your .454 cases.

If you feel you must use .45 Colt cases in your .454 then expect to do a lot of cleaning.
Either that or buy one chambered for .45 Colt.

Joe

[Mustang 22]

I have a 454 and the bulk of my shooting is 45LC, matter of fact the last several hundred rounds have been 45LC. I just now fed a half a dozen rounds of 454 through it and they went through flawlessly. The 45 loads I am using are 250 gr lead cast bullets over 12 gr of unique. This is a rifle only load. I got it from one of the artcles on Gun Blast and they work great in my Rossi. Fouling is just not a problem. I do not strip the rifle down after each session, who ever said Winchester designs were not user friendly was correct, however I do give the chamber and bore a good scrubbing after each session. One fo these days when I have enough 454 brass I may switch to down loading them to 45LC pressures. Until then what I'm doing works.

[TomD]

I think there was a thread on Cangunnuts, it basically said that after firing 45lc they had the first 454 load split right down the base. Like a piece of chopped wood. There were a number of other possibilities as to why it happened, but fouling from dirty light loads was one of them. It isn't a headspace issue as pointed out but if the cartridege can't release the bullet and pressure rises, it may have a similar reverberation.

If I could get the carbine in 480, but for some reason it isn't offered up here anymore, I would. Next best is 454. If I wanted a 45 only, I prefer the older looking 92. Fun stuff whatever one gets.

[ace1001]

I shoot a 25 gr. load of WC 820 (AA9) in 45 Colt with 250 gr bullet. That is a .454 starting load. The charge is nearly compressed. Works well in my rifles and can be fired from a heavy Ruger revolver. The minimum load is 18.5 to get the pressure up to burn clean. It burns very clean.

[ace1001]

You may have to pin the magazine tube through the front guide to hold it in. I had to on one of mine. Ace

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

You may have to pin the magazine tube through the front guide to hold it in. I had to on one of mine. Ace

You probably had one of the early 454's. All the current guns have the mag tube screwed into the receiver. That has pretty much cured that problem.
There are still some issues with the butstocks cracking in the wrist area. I glass bed them and so far it has seemed to fix the problem.

[AJMD429]

I just came across the thread last week where someone had repeated case splits (ring splits or front separations) in their Puma .454 and the theory was .45 LC loads had pitted or crudded up the front of the chamber and were causing excess pressure somehow.

1) anyone know what ever happened with that case?

2) why would the pressure escalate so greatly?

Would there be that much compression on the crimped mouth of the case to raise opening pressures? Wouldn't the bolt closing still force the round into fully chambered position?

[NonPCnraRN]

The 454 Puma is heat treated to withstand greater pressures than the 45 Colt Puma. I would get the 454 Puma if I also had a 45 Colt Sixgun. You may load the 454 down to a more tolerable level that will save you and your gun some wear and tear and they could equal a load that could be duplicated in the 45 Colt case. This next point has been overlooked. If loaded in 454 brass you will not be able to accidentally load them in a 45 Colt revolver. You could hot rod the 45 Colt for the carbine, put them in your revolver like a New Vaquero for instance and KABOOM! You can put 454 rounds and 45 Colt rounds in the same sized belt loops. Now you can carry rounds for both and don't have to worry about the more powerful rounds winding up in your revolver.