General reloading questions (cast .38-55)

[Familyguy]

All of my reloading gear has finally arrived (the primers were the last box to show up). I've been doing a LOT of reading, but one thing I'm not clear on. There seems to be a variety of overall length numbers published for my caliber, 38-55.

The Lyman manual says 2.510" when it shows all the dimensions. Then below it shows loading data with lengths that vary by bullet:

255gr jacketed barnes 2.480" OAL
249gr cast 2.550" OAL
335gr cast 2.900" OAL

Data from Hodgdon shows:

250gr cast 2.500" OAL
255gr jacketed barnes 2.620" OAL

That's a fairly wide variation using only published reloading data so I'm unsure which OAL to use. My supplies:

H4198 powder
Winchester large rifle primers
Starline 2.082" brass
Cast Performance .380 260gr flat nose bullets with gas check
Barnes .377 255gr jacketed

The barrel on my Legendary Frontiersman Winchester slugs out at .379. I was thinking of testing out the following 2 loads:

260gr cast bullet
H4198 20gr
OAL 2.500"

260gr cast bullet
H4198 23gr
OAL 2.500"

Does that sound reasonable for a recent vintage model 94? That's in the middle of the starting and max loads that Hodgdon provides for the 250gr Lyman cast bullet. The Barnes seems a lot more straightforward since it appears to be what's used in the stock Winchester ammo.

Any suggestions or comments would be very much appreciated.

Best,

[Shasta]

I don't think the overall length should be such a concern to you. Your brass is the shorter length offered by Starline and your chosen bullet has a crimp groove. Simply seat the bullet and crimp using the groove, and your OAL will likely be fine.
I usually make up an uncharged dummy round to test fit in the rifle before actually loading any live ammo. Length has never been as much an issue for me as bullet diameter. I have two rifles, a .38-55 and a .38-72, that both required thinning of the case mouths to achieve correct fit of .380"+ bullets in the chamber.
The 20-23 gr. charges of H4198 will work, but pay attention to the effects of powder position in the case. I found that 4198 can be position sensitive, with better accuracy and consistency (per chronograph testing) achieved by elevating the barrel before each shot to position the powder at the back of the case. I prefer to use IMR 3031 powder in my .38-55 as it gives me better accuracy without powder position concerns.

SHASTA

[AJMD429]

OAL will affect pressures, though less-so in larger cases like the 375/38-55 (i.e. don't try this with 9mm Luger loads), but you may want to pick YOUR best OAL by checking to see what feeds best in YOUR gun (requires loading a few of each length up to cycle & might test 'extremes' first to see what won't cycle), and also what is close-to-but-not-into the lands of your rifling when chambered (just gently chamber a non-crimped & un-powdered round and let the bullet be pushed into the case by the rifling for a starting point).

Once you figure those two things out go from there; just keep in mind that if your gun likes unusually short rounds, pressures could be slightly higher, and if it likes unusually long rounds they may not cycle in other guns, or could bear into lands too deeply and raise pressures in those guns.

[Familyguy]

Thanks for the notes. I did an initial batch of 10 rounds. They all came out within .001 of 2.500". I went with 23gr of H4198 and they chamber/extract smoothly in my rifle. The factory crimp die really makes them look like store bought ammo.

I can see a slight bulge at the base of the bullet. I'm assuming that's ok and that it will fire form to the size of my rifle's chamber. When I shake the rounds I can hear the powder shaking around inside so I'm not compressing the charge.

Looking forward to taking these to the range when I get a little free time.

Best,

[BrentD]

FWIW, I use 19.25 grs of 4198 in my .38-55 93 Marlin. The bullet is 40:1 Lyman 250 gr flat nosed bullet. I don't know what the OAL is but I crimp them lightly right behind the first driving band. This is a silhouette match load.

[ollogger]

Im thinking your gonna be happy with that load
I like RL 7 also or 2400 for a light load with a PB bullet


ollogger

[Ray Newman]

"I can see a slight bulge at the base of the bullet. I'm assuming that's ok and that it will fire form to the size of my rifle's chamber."
--familyguy

Are saying that the bullet has a bulge at its base? If that is the case, then the bullets were not properly sized.

Or, do you observe a bulge in the loaded cartridge case where the base of the bullet is?

If so, that means that your bullets are not concentric with the cartridge case and this could very well effect the rifle's accuracy. A way to decrease the non-concentricity -- AKA bullet run-out-- is first slightly flare the case mouth to just finger seat the bullet, then run the case up into the bullet seating enough to begin seating, then lower the ram, turn the case 180 degrees and completely seat it.

[Familyguy]

Or, do you observe a bulge in the loaded cartridge case where the base of the bullet is?

If so, that means that your bullets are not concentric with the cartridge case and this could very well effect the rifle's accuracy. A way to decrease the non-concentricity -- AKA bullet run-out-- is first slightly flare the case mouth to just finger seat the bullet, then run the case up into the bullet seating enough to begin seating, then lower the ram, turn the case 180 degrees and completely seat it.

This. When I say bulge, I'm talking maybe .001-.002". I was pretty careful and flared out the case enough such that the bullet was able to be seated straight and maybe 2-3mm of it was inside the case before applying the press ram. So now if I run my finger along the brass from top to bottom I can feel a slight bump where the base of the bullet is inside the case and it's uniform around the case. I just did another one with the barnes .377 jacketed bullet and didn't see this so I'm wondering if the Starline brass is just extra tight until it gets fired once. The Lee case length checker/trimmer didn't even want to go inside the brass until I had run them through the resize and then the flaring die. Then it was still a very tight fit.

I'm less concerned with accuracy for the moment and more about safety. Even with the bulge, the bullets chamber and extract smoothly. I can post a picture if that helps, but I think it would be hard to see what I'm talking about.

Best,

[Familyguy]

After a lot more reading, I see that people reloading pistol rounds also have this problem from time to time (particularly on .45 ACP). Folks are attributing it to "thicker brass" when using some of the larger bullets and that the bullets function normally without safety issues. Others are attributing it to pressing the bullet into the case cockeyed. I know the latter is not the case for me since I'm being extra careful to make sure the bullet is seated correctly before applying any pressure from the press.

I'll report back after firing a few and see how those once-fired cases behave when reloaded with the same bullet/process.

I'm pretty amazed at how accurate the rifle is with the stock .375 bullets in the factory Winchester loads given the .379 slug reading. I've taken a few deer with the rifle in the past and haven't noticed any keyholing on paper targets. Strange.

Best,

[JayF in AZ]

It's not a problem. It just means your bigger than "standard" bullets are hard enough to not be swaged down by the brass. Shoot them and enjoy.

[Familyguy]

It's not a problem. It just means your bigger than "standard" bullets are hard enough to not be swaged down by the brass. Shoot them and enjoy.

I think that's correct. It looks like the gas check ever so slightly extruded the brass as it was pressed into the case. The rounds load and extract effortlessly so I'm not going to worry about it. I only managed to mangle one case while teaching myself to reload and the rest turned out perfectly so I'm pretty happy.

Best,