OT - What's wrong with this picture?

Post by **AmBraCol** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:23 pm

"Only the police are well trained and proficient enough to be trusted with the usage of weapons."

Well, that's what some would have you believe. So, what's wrong with this picture? My question is, "How'd she do it?"

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:27 pm

My eyes aren't all that great and the picture is fuzzy but is that magazine in backwards. Almost looks like her right arm is pushed through a hollow stock too but can't really tell.

Jeff Quinn · Post by **Jeff Quinn** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:27 pm

Hope she doesn't need to fire that weapon. The bullets are pointed right at her!

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:01 pm

At least she knows which end to point at the bad guy.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:30 pm

You show this kind of picture the the public (there's another out there where the scope is on backwards, and one with national guard troops protecting the airport 'at the ready' without any magazines in their guns (or on their persons), and the non-gun-owners just shrug and say 'minor details'.

When lives are at stake, details matter!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:38 pm

help my old eyes, but perhaps she has a magazine clipped to another, one inserted properly, the other upside down and backwards, run through one mag, drop and insert the next. I have clips around here somewhere that do that, for three mags at a time, two down one up when you start out. Don't know if that is the case or not here, just cant see it well enough.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:40 pm

Yep, "properly trained"...

Post by **AmBraCol** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:43 pm

rjohns94 wrote:help my old eyes, but perhaps she has a magazine clipped to another, one inserted properly, the other upside down and backwards, run through one mag, drop and insert the next. I have clips around here somewhere that do that, for three mags at a time, two down one up when you start out. Don't know if that is the case or not here, just cant see it well enough.

That's what I wondered about too. However, there's NO evidence at all of any curve forward, which would indicate a second magazine inserted properly. No, this one looks to be inserted backwards, although HOW she did it still escapes me. Don't have any such firearm around to try it with or I would.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:52 pm

I see a second magazine attached to the one inserted that's is upside down, flipping it over to insert when the first is gone... standard now that they make little clips to do what we used duct tape in VN to do.

Yes, the second mag has the bullets facing you, but... still can't really make out if that is a scope or just the "handle" common to the species. Nice to see she has her trigger finger OUTSIDE the trigger guard, good form also.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Griff, I don't see what you're seeing. Here's the pertinent part of the pic, blown up quite a bit. I don't see evidence of the second magazine you're referring to. I'll confess ignorance about most of what these weapons are about, having played with them too infrequently over the years to develop any kind of familiarity. BUT I don't see evidence of any forward curving magazine behind the one that's plain in the picture.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:19 pm

I just tried and could not get a magazine to fit backwards in my AR-15, although anything is possible given enough time, money, and stupidity, and our government and its minions seem to be stocked up on all three.

As far as the 'clamp' theory - most clamps won't allow two magazines to be clamped unless they 'curve' the same way, not just due to the curve, but the ridge on the back of the magazine; there are cloth 'clamps' though and always duct tape...

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:56 pm

Yeah,
It's too long to be 1 30 in backwards

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:00 pm

I'm trying to upload a couple of pics to show what I meant in my earlier post. But... for a narrative, I'll try this: a flat bottomed mag, a coupler that goes around the body of the mag, not just at the base; and most any curved mag would give the appearance that news picture does. Not all police departments have deep pockets to supply the REALLY good stuff to all their officers.

CindyLea · Post by **CindyLea** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:08 pm

Would the mag be in upside down? The ridge in the mag would make it very hard to get in backwards...but upside down would be a possibility??

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:13 pm

It's been a few years, but... ISTR that in the AR-15 or M-16 class the standard mag will extend from the well straight down, although the well has a slight upward cast, as does the base of the mag. If the clamp used were of the "around the body of the mag type, vs. a type that clips to the base of the mag. With two different capacity and styled mags, this would be result in a pic that gave the impression that one long mag were inserted backwards. Such a mag connector appears as:

Straight wall mag:

Even a curved mag has a section near its base that is straight to utilize a clamp such as the one pictured above.

If a two curved mags were connected with a mid-mag clamp like the above, neither mag would appear to be curved very much. The overlap might also be very hard to pick out without a good hi-res photo; not newsprint quality. I'd bet the negative or original image for this photo would show the details sufficient to make a determination what type of connector and mags were used.

I'm all argued out... the defense rests!

MikeNV · Post by **MikeNV** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:51 pm

Unless she is incredibly strong.... Due to the design of the magazine there is no way to get a magazine in backwards..... I believe that is what the govt calls "Marineproof". Now if you flip the mag upside down it will go in but will not stay there and will fall to the ground once the weapon is held horizontal as there is no mag catch detent to catch.... again "Marineproof". Now before the jarheads get riled-up I'm a Marine...

1981-1985 USMC
1885-1987 USMCR

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:14 am

I don't see anything wrong. It looks clear to me there is two mags together as mentioned. Give her some credit.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:33 am

Never cottoned to the "tacticool" "option" of connecting two mags together.

Some guys used to do that with 100mph tape... and after a bit, especially with 30s, their rifle would jam. Puts too much stress on the mag and it begins to pivot in the well.

It's also slower to change IMO. Much faster to drop & slam home.

And anyway, WTH does a standing, un-armored, not-behind-cover (read, "target") cop need 60 rds of 5.56 "up the pipe"?

Somebody needs some more training.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:47 am

Old Ironsights wrote: And anyway, WTH does a standing, un-armored, not-behind-cover (read, "target") cop need 60 rds of 5.56 "up the pipe"?

I was wondering the same thing. Almost as if it's a posed shot for the reporter.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:35 am

I wrote this before, but I guess I messed up somwhere.
I have a Daewoo & a CAR 15 ( civilian ) I never use a 30 round mag.
I use 20's and load to 18, anyome else do this?

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 am

mescalero1 wrote:I wrote this before, but I guess I messed up somwhere.
I have a Daewoo & a CAR 15 ( civilian ) I never use a 30 round mag.
I use 20's and load to 18, anyome else do this?

For patrol use, I used 30 round mags with 28 in each one. I also used extra strength springs from http://www.sawlesales.com/ . The owner Ken Elmore said that he has had mags loaded for years with these springs and they do not take a set. He uses a proprietory metal in the spring. They cost more than a normal spring but my life is worth it.

The only thing that you might want to stick in the back of your head is that if there is a shooting, the investigators will look to see how many rounds you have in your mags. If you have an amount less than full capacity you will have to explain it to them. When we had our shooting here several years ago, I carried 28 rounds and another guy only had 17 rounds in his 30 round mag (don't ask). In my firearms training file, I had put in there that I only carried 28 in a 30 round mag and I also had on file that I only had 14 in each 15 round Glock mag.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:04 pm

Jengel,
I think I can gather you LEO, I am not .
I only carry these when I am traveling from Az. to my place in New Mexico.
The trip takes me precariously close to the border, I am almost always alone, and it is remote country.
You can rest assured the bad guys are there, and I will die a happy man if I never see one.
But it would be imprudent of me to assume they are NOT there.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:06 pm

Jengel,
Would it detrimental to me to have to explain 18 vs. 20?

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:31 pm

mescalero1 wrote:Jengel,
Would it detrimental to me to have to explain 18 vs. 20?

Not really, I was just pointing out that when the cops count brass and live ammo and don't come up with the right amount, they are going to ask questions. I have heard for a long time that it is better to short load your mags and I agree with it for certain situations such as prolonged storage periods.

Lucky for us, we had a State Bureau of Investigation agent on site when we shot and he pretty much new how many times we fired and he was present the whole time for the investigation. If a civilian was to do that without an LEO present, it might not go as smooth. About the only problem that you would have would be from the person or family of the person whom was shot. They could sue you for firing "extra" rounds at the client with which you "conviently" hid from the cops. Just keep in mind that it could happen.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:38 pm

Thanks for the answer, I guess they will try anything

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:23 pm

What I was taught was to load up the mags and then strip one or two off. The reason is if you do a magazine switch with the bolt closed and a round in the chamber, it is much harder to seat a full magazine because the spring is completely compressed and it's pushing against the bolt with no give. if you're loading from the open bolt, it doesn't matter.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:20 pm

Yep 2 mags even though the pic is bad. It is just short of imposible to get the mag in backwards short of pounding it with a hammer. Also the 30 round mag isnt that long when inserted into the mag well.

The only mags I have used are 30's we load 28 the reason is that the spring wears out to fast with full loads. Also if you have a new spring you have a greater chance of a double feed.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:27 pm

JReed wrote:...Also if you have a new spring you have a greater chance of a double feed.

Talkin' like that, you make it soundlike a bad thing...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:27 am

Andrew wrote:
JReed wrote:...Also if you have a new spring you have a greater chance of a double feed.
Talkin' like that, you make it soundlike a bad thing...

Well.... it is if the time is bad. Remember, Murphy was an optimist.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:45 am

He was??????

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:53 am

jkbrea,
that is where I picked it up also

cas · Post by **cas** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:52 am

There's a few photos like this rounding the web. The other photos show AR's in upright rifle racks in patrol cars, the same way. It would seem some departments do this to keep the loaded magazine WITH the rifle, but not have the rifle loaded??? This young lady apparently didn't know the difference.

cas · Post by **cas** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:37 am

Ah ha.. took me a bit to recall...
(photo looks little hokey because it's been enhanced)

http://www.thegunzone.com/mos/fubar-ar.html

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:15 am

I did not think that was possible

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:23 am

I bet it falls out when they jump out of they car.

Griff Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrew wrote:
JReed wrote:
...Also if you have a new spring you have a greater chance of a double feed.

Talkin' like that, you make it soundlike a bad thing...
Well.... it is if the time is bad. Remember, Murphy was an optimist.

That is why I carry a leatherman on the range. Next time I am on the range I will have to try and get some picks of some of the jams I see.

Murphy wasnt an optimist he was a grunt

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:32 am

I think there's a conspiracy between the bad guy, the cop, and Rodney King. Ole Roddy needs to raise a few bucks---------Sixgun

cas · Post by **cas** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:56 pm

Griff wrote:I see a second magazine attached to the one inserted that's is upside down...

Sorry Griff Ol' pal... but I don't think so. You can clearly see the ribs in the mag, that nothings wrapped
around it. If had a "Redi-mag" mount on it, we'd see it, or it would be on the other side.

I think there's been a lot of speculation (this is not a new story) that it was photoshopped, due to that fact that she seems to have rather long fingers, but then the newspaper would be to blame. I've believe it's gone as far as some people having contacted the PD there to confirm the mag was upside down and backwards.

(FWIW.. upside down and backwards is easy to do. Just backwards takes some fiddling and forcing)
I think the fact that the ribs don't go all the way to the bottom (top) prove it's upside down as well.
The problem THEN is... if it's a 30 it can't be in more than a hair. Or it's an uncommon 40. Ah who knows... I'm stuck home with the flu so I can't do much else. lol