Straight lead for black powder in the .38-55?

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:32 am

I have over half a ton of pure lead I've been saving up for bullet casting. I use w/w lead for my handguns, but was wondering why, if I can use it in my Hawken, couldn't I use pure lead for BP use in the .38-55? Which lube would be best? Are duplex loads (with Blue Dot) worth it?

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:02 am

No expert as I dont do BPCR (yet) but I have talked with a few people that use pure lead in their guns with good results. IIRC that is what the old timers used and they didnt have any problems. As to best lube that is opening Panora's Box and you should get lots of input on that one. I hear SPG used alot.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:13 am

Black Power Velocities do better with pure lead IMO.

SPG is a good modern BP lube. You can also use Beeswax thinned with olive oil to the consistency you like. Or you can use B'ar Grease like the trappers used to.

Check your As Cast bullet size because pure lead casts up smaller (IIRC) than WW. OTOH it obturates better, so it might not be a big deal.

FWIU Duplex Loads shoot cleaner, but I don't mess with them.

Cast 'em up, lube 'em up, load 'em up and shoot 'em up.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:39 am

Using pure lead will be difficult if you are trying to cast grease grooved bullets because pure lead doesn't want to fill out everywhere in the mold..You'll get places on the bullet where the bands are not filled out..Go to a 30-1 or 40-1 lead/tin mixture & you'll get bullets that will fill out and be easier to cast. If you are gonna paper patch a smooth bullet then you don't need to worry about the tin..

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:53 am

There you go , Ben.
That helps a lot.
My Minie and REAL molds cast pure lead pretty well, but the detail areas are large.
I'll add tin until I get a good bullet out of my Rapine mold.

Thanks.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:55 am

ANyone interested in loading black powder cartridges would do well to get ahold of a copy of "The Black Powder Cartridge Reloading Manual", by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe, available from SPG Lube.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:09 am

Ben_Rumson wrote:Using pure lead will be difficult if you are trying to cast grease grooved bullets because pure lead doesn't want to fill out everywhere in the mold..You'll get places on the bullet where the bands are not filled out..Go to a 30-1 or 40-1 lead/tin mixture & you'll get bullets that will fill out and be easier to cast. If you are gonna paper patch a smooth bullet then you don't need to worry about the tin..

Huh... Odd.

I've cast Lyman 358-156HP in pure lead with no fill-out problems at all. Use them for my Catsneeze loads.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:19 am

Pure lead MIGHT limit your velocity more than you might like. Like a lot of other things in life, but especially in reloading, it's all a matter or getting the right ingredients in the right quantity and put together in the right order, for YOUR gun.

SPG is an excellent BP lube. It wouldn't enjoy such widespread acceptance if it weren't. But, it's pricey and you can save money on some homegrown lubes. Check over at the Shiloh Sharps forum, or on Cast Boolits. Do a search on ".38-55", there's a wealth of info there. Don't hesitate to ask questions; you're sure to get answers. But, be prepared to separate some wheat from chaff; as here, there are some that talk rather than do... but, if you read enough, they're fairly apparent. If you see some good info, if they're a "doer", they'll post targets and data.

I prefer my cartridge loads to get up to around 1500fps, so mixing your pure lead with a little linotype would be appropriate, but so are straight WWs. The matter of bullet hardness/appropriate lube is very much a matter of how much lube your bullet can carry. Therein lies the popularity of the "Big Lube" bullets; they carry a LOT of lube, thereby keeping the fouling softer and allowing one to shoot longer bewteen scrubbin' out that bore. You CAN use a softer bullet if the lube capacity is sufficient, AND IMO, if you use a wad to protect the base of the bullet from the potential of flame cutting on an unprotected base.

I have never played around with Duplex loads. I hear of guys that do. I don't personally know of any. Early on in my BP reloading, I read the dangers of doing so, and have believed them. Experimenting with a mix of smokeless and BP is not something I really want to mess with. Kinda like my ropin'; I've lived this long and not lost a thumb, so I'll continue to be cautious when I dally!

I know those aren't really answers to your question, but... the best I can do.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:27 am

Pure lead will/should work like a champ at 38-55 bp velocity. However bullet fit and a good lube really becomes critical when using blackpowder.
I'ld suggest starting with .001 over groove diameter with your bullet.
As for lube as good as SPG is, I've come to prefer Sagebrush alox by quite a bit. I like it quite abit better in black and smokeless loads, and its a bit less spendy. www.sageoutfitters.com

Don't forget the wad a .030 fiber wad is always a good place to start.
Also make sure there's no copper fouling or hard lead fouling anywhere in that barrel before starting in with the bp loads, as any previuos fouling may tend to strip those soft bullets.

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:46 am

Just started experimenting Monday with a new to me 38-55 and preliminary results show pure lead shoots horribly (12" groups), 20:1 is down to about 4" groups. So far.
I shoot a lot of BPCR cartridges (32-20, 44-40, 45-70, 45-75, 43 Spanish, and now 38-55) and so far pure lead outshot 20:1 or wheelweights in only 1 gun, a trapdoor 45-70. It was gun specific though, in 2 other trapdoors 20:1 shot circles around pure lead. You will have to test in YOUR gun to determine what shoots best. A .030" ldpe wad has usually worked wonders for me with a lot of bpcr loads. Have not tried it yet on the 38-55

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:29 pm

Lots of good information, and places to start. Thanks to all.

Coyote Nose - just curious, how's you're bullet-to-barrel fit?
I've found that .379 hard cast commercial bullets are all over the target unless I use a faster powder like 4227 (my bore is .381). My .380 mold from Rapine works much better, using w/w lead, which I'm sure is bumping up far more easily. What gun/bullet are you shooting? Have you slugged your bore?

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:13 pm

couldn't I use pure lead for BP use in the .38-55?

No, unless you plan to shoot paper patch reloads. 1:20 alloy is what you want to use for velocities up to 1200 fps

Which lube would be best?

Per each seller - theirs is the best. Pick one from here. They all work and some for over a hundred years ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=450.0

Are duplex loads (with Blue Dot) worth it?

Yes, if that's the only white powder you have in the Burn Rate range. My choice would be 4895 with a lower burn rate

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:56 pm

homefront, I supposedly bought a first year of issue Winchester 1894 (112XX) about 2 months ago but a letter from Cody told me it was 1895 issue. Bullet is the lee bullet mould. Pure lead and 20:1 come out .380", wheelweights are .381". My groove diameter is .379" so I am okay there. I made a bigger expander because the .380" bullets were really bulging the cases, plus I figure seating the .380" bullets in the .370" case mouth was sizing the bullets down too much. The fact that the larger expander really helped points to this. May make an even larger one but have to make sure such loaded rounds will chamber ok. As stated, i just started in on this project so everything is still preliminary. Hope to hear about your successes in this forum as you experiment.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:59 am

I'd like to note that the long (2.125") .38-55 brass put out by Starline helped some shooters with the big bullets as opposed to the short .38-55 brass. Just sayin'.

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:32 am

Hi Hobie. When i got this 2 months ago I didn't know which length brass to buy, then read the postings on this forum and determined I need the long brass so it is the long Starline that I bought and am currently using.