Loading Gate on Winchester 94

[caltx01]

I have a 1971 Winchester 94 .44 Magnum. When I load cartridges in it if I push a cartridge all the way past the front of the loading gate it will snap back past the front of the loading gate when it closes and block the gate from opening. I have to leave each cartridge partially sticking out of the gate in order to load multiples.

I took the gun to a gunsmith and he told me there was no way to repair the stop on the existing gate and that there were no replacement parts available anywhere for this problem. In every other respect the gun functions perfectly.

Can anyone tell me if my gunsmith is correct? Has anyone had a similar issue? and finally, is it true that a search for a replacement part is a pipe dream? I find that a little hard to believe as numerous as these guns are.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any and all help and advice.

Cal in TX

[J Miller]

Cal,

The correct way to load the 94s and others is what you are doing. Load a cartridge leaving just the rime on the front edge of the loading gate, load another leave the rim on the front of the gate, continue till it's full.

Now, on the backside of the loading gate is a projection that will keep the cartridges from coming back into the action to far. Sometimes there are burrs and jagged edges on this piece that will grab the rims of the rounds and hold it. This prevents you from topping up the magazine or filling it if the round got past the end of the loading gate.

You can test this by slipping a finger in behind the loading gate with the action open and feeling the projection. I've felt them with burrs so sharp they'd cut your finger.

The easiest way to fix this is to take the action apart, remove the loading gate and polish off all the burrs. Don't remove too much metal, just the burrs and sharp edges.
If the spring part of the gate has too much tension, they usually don't but it can happen, you can relieve the bend just a bit which will help with the loading too.

Just remember when you reinstall the loading gate, use your fingers to press and hold it in place from the inside. Make positive sure the tiny screw is NOT cross threaded then tighten it. Not too tight those threads strip easily.

That should take care of your problem

Your gun smith is wrong about the parts. There are a number of sources. They are out there.

Joe

[Malamute]

Your gunsmith is mistaken on several points. The gate doesn't control the cartridges position when the action is closed, the lever does. The gate has no "stop". The gate has a rib with an angled surface on its back side. The front part is what the problem is, it has burrs or roughness and the gate isn't pushing the cartridge rim forward to allow the next round in. It should be slick as can be, loading without effort or drama with any number of rounds in the magazine (except a bit more effort for the last round or two going in), and isn't hard to make it that way with careful polishing on the angled part of the rib. The hardest part is getting the screw back in without cross threading it.

Parts should be available from several sources. I still see new parts available at the Winchester Collectors show, tho I dont think you need a new gate.

It sounds like your gunsmith doesnt really understand how Winchesters function. If it were me, I think I'd find a better gunsmith.

[Pete44ru]

.

Yep - My money's on some roughness, on the inside/backside of the leading edge of your loading gate is preventing that surface from acting as a cam to force the last cartridge loaded forward when you press the gate "open" with the nose of the next cartridge to be loaded into the magazine.

You needn't disassemble the action to smooth/work on the inside edge - just pull the forend wood & magazine tube, and work through the magazine throat in the front action wall with a fine round file and/or stone.
You'll most likely still need to manipulate the lever (lifter) for access to the work surface, though.


.

[Malamute]

I dont think you can properly get to it through the magazine hole, nor is a file quite the right tool. A fine stone is good, I use a ceramic file/stone or 400 grit wet or dry paper, then 600.

Removing the gate isn't that hard to do, and the action doesnt have to be completely taken down. Removing the link screw is probably about it, though I just took the lever out a few minutes ago on one to see if I'd polished the lever to make pushing rounds back into the magazine easy when closing on an empty chamber. It isn't that diffucult to do in any event.

[caltx01]

Thanks very much for the replies, friends. I rubbed my finger along the inside edge of the front of the loading gate with the action opened and you are right - it is as prickly as a cactus.

I am going to take it down tomorrow and work on those burrs. I am sure that will fix my problem.

I should have saved my money and come here first. I also start looking for a better gunsmith tomorrow!

Cal in TX

[Griff]

Joe, Malamute & Pete are correct on all counts. To be kind to your gunsmith, he has the Winchester 94 confused with the mdl 1866, in which the back of the spring cover, (actual name for the loading gate... don't ask me why Winchester called it that... but they did), actually has a cartridge stop, which is a common failure on the Uberti 1866 clones.

1st, I'd find another gunsmith. Well... no, actually, I wouldn't... I'd fix it myself! It's not difficult to do. Make sure the gun is unloaded. Open the action, and remove the spring cover screw. The cover should then be easily removed from the top, but if not; taking the link screw out (bottom front of the recevier), will drop the link and allow you to remove from the bottom... probably will just fall out. Follow Malamute's suggestions for smoothing the backside up. The actual cartridge stop on the mdl 94 is part of the carrier, (commonly referred to as the "lifter"). I tried to find a picture of the backside of a spring cover, but... alas, I don't have one!!!

The Winchester 94's spring cover, like Pete described, when pushed in with the nose of a bullet, should push the rear cartridge forward enough to get that cartridge started in the gun. However, it can take quite a bit of force to make this happen, it's usually just easier to leave 1/8"-1/4" (the rim essentially), of the last cartridge inserted peeking out the gate to easy the loading process. As the magazine fills, magazine spring pressure builds to the point that it's often necessary to use a finger to keep that cartridge there while you start the next one.

[Malamute]

...The actual cartridge stop on the mdl 94 is part of the carrier, (commonly referred to as the "lifter"). I tried to find a picture of the backside of a spring cover, but... alas, I don't have one!!!...

Yes, the carrier (lifter) has a stop when the action is open and cycling to raise the feeding cartridge, but when the action is closed, the lever holds the rounds forward. You can see the cartridge moving backwards as the bolt opens, or make it move forward if you close the action before raising the round to feed into the chamber.


Edit: Got the picture loaded. It shows the front edge polished, and the rib polished. Older guns (pre-war) load easy as can be, with no hesitation to add more rounds. I never leave the rim sticking out when loading, just push each one in as I go, no reason not to. I have had the rounds try to jump back out when leaving the rim out a bit. Polishing newer guns (that includes late pre-64's) makes them simple to load without leaving the rims out.

[handirifle]

Thanks very much for the replies, friends. I rubbed my finger along the inside edge of the front of the loading gate with the action opened and you are right - it is as prickly as a cactus.

I am going to take it down tomorrow and work on those burrs. I am sure that will fix my problem.

I should have saved my money and come here first. I also start looking for a better gunsmith tomorrow!

Cal in TX

Welcome to my world. I have an old 22LR semi auto that I have owned since I was a young kid. It started stove piping rounds and jamming up about every other round fired. TWO different gunsmiths just told me (after taking my money) that it was just old and worn out. I believed them, and almost trashed the rifle, but couldn't part with it. About 10 years later I started doing what your doing, except over at rimfire central.com.

After getting COMPLETE instructions, I totally disassembled and cleaned the rifle, and adjusted the spring wire that kicks out the empty rounds. Well after several hundred rounds since MY repair, it has yet to fail to fire or fail to eject, or stovepipe any rounds, and that is with all kinds of different ammo.

Sites like these are worth their weight in gold.

[1894cfan]

It sounds like your gunsmith doesnt really understand how Winchesters function. If it were me, I think I'd find a better gunsmith.

Or maybe he just is too lazy and doesn't want to deal with a lever gun!

[claybob86]

I had the same problem a few years back. Joe provided the solution and all's well ever since.

[J Miller]

The reason I recommend a complete disassembly is so you can clean, then inspect everything. Yes you can get the gate out without total disassembly but you can't fully inspect the nooks and crannies in these guns that way. You'd be surprised at the gunk and debris that accumulates in them. And new ones are prone to metal filings, assembly oil and other gunk.

Joe

[StephanieB]

I just picked up a `90s vintage 94AE at a really good price. I couldn't figure out how to top off the magazine, so with a bit of googling, I came here.

What I didn't know about was the camming function of the loading gate. (Heck, I'd never shot a `94 until yesterday.)

I was able to rub my finger along the back side of it, it seemed smooth. So I tried pushing down harder with the nose of a cartridge, at least harder than I could push with a finger. That worked, the gate cammed forward the cartridge in the tube forward and I was able to load another cartridge.

You guys are the best!

[claybob86]

Welcome aboard, StephanieB!

[Griff]

and Welcome to THE Forum.

[Malamute]

Hello Stephanie, Yes, I've done that also with a balky gate, before figuring out how the make them work right. Once one is slicked up, its like night and day to use them, a pure joy.

I have a couple 94's from the 20's, they load like a dream. They are what helped me figure out how to make the later ones work smoothly. I compared them to the newer guns (even pre-64's don't always operate as slick as the earlier guns) and saw the difference right away.

[StephanieB]

Thanks for the welcome, folks.

I'd attach a photo, but I imagine that everyone here knows what a 94AE looks like.

[Pete44ru]

.

S'ok, Stephanie - Everyone's due their 15mins of fame, so there's NP if you post pics & are proud of your rifle !

Welcome - we hope you hang around enough to start your own post/topic/question(s).



.

[StephanieB]

NP if you post pics & are proud of your rifle !

Alrighty, then!

new 94.JPG

[a__l__a__n]

Cal,

The correct way to load the 94s and others is what you are doing. Load a cartridge leaving just the rime on the front edge of the loading gate, load another leave the rim on the front of the gate, continue till it's full.

Now, on the backside of the loading gate is a projection that will keep the cartridges from coming back into the action to far. Sometimes there are burrs and jagged edges on this piece that will grab the rims of the rounds and hold it. This prevents you from topping up the magazine or filling it if the round got past the end of the loading gate.

You can test this by slipping a finger in behind the loading gate with the action open and feeling the projection. I've felt them with burrs so sharp they'd cut your finger.

The easiest way to fix this is to take the action apart, remove the loading gate and polish off all the burrs. Don't remove too much metal, just the burrs and sharp edges.
If the spring part of the gate has too much tension, they usually don't but it can happen, you can relieve the bend just a bit which will help with the loading too.

Just remember when you reinstall the loading gate, use your fingers to press and hold it in place from the inside. Make positive sure the tiny screw is NOT cross threaded then tighten it. Not too tight those threads strip easily.

That should take care of your problem

Your gun smith is wrong about the parts. There are a number of sources. They are out there.

Joe

This sounds similar to an issue I've had with a new (to me) Interarms Rossi 92, early '80's vintage. You mentioned a projection on the back side of the loading gate. Does a Rossi m92 have that?

I think my issue is related to the "Cartridge stop", the curved piece right at the entrance to the magazine tube in the picture below.



You can see scratches on the base / lip of the snap cap from prior loading attempts. I'm thinking this is being caused by some burrs / roughness on the cartridge stop. Sometimes the cartridge stop snaps too early and grabs the lip on the base of the round just before it finishes entering the tube. That blocks loading and requires unloading a couple of rounds to correct.

I've also had the following issue: The loading gate closes and the last round backs into the space behind the loading gate. That blocks the loading gate so you can't load more rounds. I think this is related to the first issue -- the cartridge stop didn't properly capture the last round. That could be operator error, just not pushing the round far enough into the magazine tube. But it's pretty easy to make that mistake, especially if you let the loading gate close after each round. My fingers are too fat to push the round all the way to the loading tube without another round, a pencil, or etc to push it far enough in.

Is this operation the same on a Model 92 (Rossi) as on a Winchester Model 94? IOW, does the advice I'm reading here apply to the 92?

Thanks!

[Tycer]

NP if you post pics & are proud of your rifle !

Alrighty, then!

new 94.JPG

Pretty!