308 vs 243

[6pt-sika]

Well, luckily I have a variety of much superior calibers....I believe when I joked about you using .375/416 on deer, you had a fairly caviler retort for me... Bear is where you need the more reliable stopping power, Bubba, not killing ability....

Read what I wrote when I remarked about the boy using a 243 . I said "not my perfect choice".

My response about the 375 H&H and 416 is and was , if ya got it you might as well use it !

Whats so Cavalier about that ?

A black bear isn't very hard to kill if you keep your wits about you Bubba !

Of the ones I've popped all were DRT . Of the 8 or so my gunsmith buddies killed only one ran over ten yards Bubba and that one was shot with an M1A twice , both killing shots .

[44shooter]

I grew up hunting deer with hounds. Based on what I have seen, the 243 is iffy. The 308 is pretty ideal. These aren't very big deer, but they know something's after them. it makes a difference.

[6pt-sika]

I grew up hunting deer with hounds. Based on what I have seen, the 243 is iffy. The 308 is pretty ideal. These aren't very big deer, but they know something's after them. it makes a difference.

With hounds maybe , but not when you're sitting in a tree waiting on them and they're unaware !

[44shooter]

I grew up hunting deer with hounds. Based on what I have seen, the 243 is iffy. The 308 is pretty ideal. These aren't very big deer, but they know something's after them. it makes a difference.

With hounds maybe , but not when you're sitting in a tree waiting on them and they're unaware !

True, at least with a decent bullet. Yes, ambushing deer is totally different and that is how the vast majority are taken. But for me, this makes the 243 marginal as a all around deer round. As long as I can shoot something bigger, I will. I'm no magnum fan either. Any standard high power round from .26 to about .33 seems about right as an all around deer round.

[Blaine]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you with my personal preferences.....

[Streetstar]

308 for me

243 is for pest control now


Only deer i ever lost was with a .243 -- he was able to run far enough into heavy cover and disappeared despite a blood trail -- despite the rifle being properly zeroed (and i re-checked it 2 days later) -- very good broadside shot at 100 measured yards with Remington Core-Lokt's

That still bugs me to this day ----- so that effectively relegated my .243 to duty for animals coyote size on down. - I've even considered re-barrelling the darn thing

Since then i have had equally good success with 30-30's, 308's, and 45-70, and on one occasion , a 357 Magnum out of an 8 3/8" pistol did the job just fine

Every caliber is going to have its share of followers who champion its use and have been succesful with it -- heck even on the AR forum, there are nitwits who make every excuse in the world why a .223 is a good deer cartridge (its not- )
The .243 is a heckuva lot more capable than a 223, and my situation was an isolated incident, but it was enough to shatter my confidence in the round. But i would never badmouth another experienced hunter who chose to use a .243 and was confident with it. I might be inclined to remind a young hunter trying to use an AR, or surplus steel ammo in an SKS, to please have some respect for the animal they are hunting and bring something more appropriate though

[6pt-sika]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you with my personal preferences.....

Your preferences have never confused me !

However you might be better served if you back up and regroup a bit . I mean how many actual bear have you killed ?

And no kicking a stuffed teddy bear does not constitute killing a bear

[6pt-sika]

I grew up hunting deer with hounds. Based on what I have seen, the 243 is iffy. The 308 is pretty ideal. These aren't very big deer, but they know something's after them. it makes a difference.

With hounds maybe , but not when you're sitting in a tree waiting on them and they're unaware !

True, at least with a decent bullet. Yes, ambushing deer is totally different and that is how the vast majority are taken. But for me, this makes the 243 marginal as a all around deer round. As long as I can shoot something bigger, I will. I'm no magnum fan either. Any standard high power round from .26 to about .33 seems about right as an all around deer round.

Obviousely you're not an advocate of hunting from treestands since you call it anbushing !

Now with that being said I see no way you can call chasing deer with hounds hunting and treestand hunting ambushing . I mean generally the way the doggers do it here in Virginia is set up where they think the deer will come and wait for the dogs to push then . So if I'm ambushing them when they walk by , whattya call it when the dogs push them by ?

Sounds like ambushing as you say I'm doing !

[Ravenman]

Casasthale; great pictures and your Winchester 70 is a real beauty! Love the clean look of your YJ Wrangler - he looks pretty stock.
Nothing to add there. Use a premium bullet in the 243 Winchester and you bring home venison.
Low recoil and high performance that's why I bought my 243 Winchester rifles (Ruger No 1, Winchester 70 XTR, Savage 99C) and the fine articles of Bob Milek. I have some 308 Winchester rifles too but more for target and midrange shooting. And if I need a bigger gun than the 243 Winchester I take one of my 338 Winchester Magnum rifles.

[Blaine]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you with my personal preferences.....

Your preferences have never confused me !

However you might be better served if you back up and regroup a bit . I mean how many actual bear have you killed ?

And no kicking a stuffed teddy bear does not constitute killing a bear

Beg pardon....I shall now cede that you personally believe that a .243 is better suited to bear than a .308...I guess when you ambush bear over bait, one does not require a suitable weapon. We'll just kick this teddy bear down the road for now

[horsesoldier03]

I personally have never owned a .243, however, my cousin and I were hunting deer and both took shots at 3 deer. He had a .243 and I was using my 30-30. I shot 2xs dropping my first deer DRT with a frontal shot to the center of the chest and the other deer was a side shot that dropped the deer within 20 yrds. He shot his deer twice with his .243 and we followed the blood trail at least 300 yards and 2 hrs later. When we finally found the deer the holes were where they should have been, we are still not sure why that deer made it as far as it did. Needless to say he no longer uses the .243 and opted for a .30 cal.

[Streetstar]

I personally have never owned a .243, however, my cousin and I were hunting deer and both took shots at 3 deer. He had a .243 and I was using my 30-30. I shot 2xs dropping my first deer DRT with a frontal shot to the center of the chest and the other deer was a side shot that dropped the deer within 20 yrds. He shot his deer twice with his .243 and we followed the blood trail at least 300 yards and 2 hrs later. When we finally found the deer the holes were where they should have been, we are still not sure why that deer made it as far as it did. Needless to say he no longer uses the .243 and opted for a .30 cal.

That was pretty much my experience except i didnt find the deer

[Streetstar]

[. We'll just kick this teddy bear down the road for now

Teddy Bear is one of several nicknames i have, so i take humbrage at your prostracastication sir! (kidding of course-- but not about the nickname) --- one of my friends called me a Teddy Bear until i was ticked off-- etc etc --- then i guess i turned into Teddy Ruxpin? or maybe a really angry and buff Care Bear ! -- but the name stuck and now many use it

[Blaine]

I need to re-read How To Win Friends, And Influence People...

[horsesoldier03]

I need to re-read How To Win Friends, And Influence People...

When you finish it, you probably need to pass it to me. Seems like I often share your tendancy.

[6pt-sika]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you with my personal preferences.....

Your preferences have never confused me !

However you might be better served if you back up and regroup a bit . I mean how many actual bear have you killed ?

And no kicking a stuffed teddy bear does not constitute killing a bear

Beg pardon....I shall now cede that you personally believe that a .243 is better suited to bear than a .308...I guess when you ambush bear over bait, one does not require a suitable weapon. We'll just kick this teddy bear down the road for now

Never said that !

I do however see nothing wrong with it for deer in the correct peoples hands .

Never tried a bear with a 243 personally . But I have killed bear . And as I said they are not that difficult to kill . Never shot them over bait either , although they were coming to an orchard when they got popped .
And as to "ambush" I'm afraid I've not done that either !

[cshold]

I personally have never owned a .243, however, my cousin and I were hunting deer and both took shots at 3 deer. He had a .243 and I was using my 30-30. I shot 2xs dropping my first deer DRT with a frontal shot to the center of the chest and the other deer was a side shot that dropped the deer within 20 yrds. He shot his deer twice with his .243 and we followed the blood trail at least 300 yards and 2 hrs later. When we finally found the deer the holes were where they should have been, we are still not sure why that deer made it as far as it did. Needless to say he no longer uses the .243 and opted for a .30 cal.

Reminds me of an instance years ago. I was about 19 or 20 years old.
First day of the PA. Doe season. Got ants in my pants around 10:00
in the morning. Came across a guy trying to follow the blood trail of
a deer he hit around 7:30 that morning. Said he thought he made a good
hit on her with his Marlin 336 in 35 rem. Blood trail was next to nothing.
I helped him track for about another ½ hour. He got frustrated, said “screw
it I’m done, if you happen to find the deer it’s yours” With my young good
eyes and about 250 yards later, I found and tagged a very nice well hit dead
deer. The bullet went through the deer but never expanded. I don’t know
what brand ammo. he was using.

[piller]

A friend of mine back in Lawrence, KS, uses a .243 for deer and I have seen him take several with it. Each time it was a 1 shot kill. We were hunting around Lawrence, and had both got a second chance tag so that we could get 2 deer apiece. I was using a .270 and could not tell the difference between how quickly the deer went down with either cartridge. There was no trailing necessary. We were both walking and glassing the area. I think it is called stalking. No stands, no dogs. Not one of the deer that Barry shot with the .243 ever ran off during the years I hunted with him. On the little tiny deer here in Texas, I don't think that the folks who use the 7mm Mag ever have tasted venison. Deer here are about the size of an underfed Australian Shepherd with the largest genetically modified rack on them that they can possibly carry.

[horsesoldier03]

I personally have never owned a .243, however, my cousin and I were hunting deer and both took shots at 3 deer. He had a .243 and I was using my 30-30. I shot 2xs dropping my first deer DRT with a frontal shot to the center of the chest and the other deer was a side shot that dropped the deer within 20 yrds. He shot his deer twice with his .243 and we followed the blood trail at least 300 yards and 2 hrs later. When we finally found the deer the holes were where they should have been, we are still not sure why that deer made it as far as it did. Needless to say he no longer uses the .243 and opted for a .30 cal.

Reminds me of an instance years ago. I was about 19 or 20 years old.
First day of the PA. Doe season. Got ants in my pants around 10:00
in the morning. Came across a guy trying to follow the blood trail of
a deer he hit around 7:30 that morning. Said he thought he made a good
hit on her with his Marlin 336 in 35 rem. Blood trail was next to nothing.
I helped him track for about another ½ hour. He got frustrated, said “screw
it I’m done, if you happen to find the deer it’s yours” With my young good
eyes and about 250 yards later, I found and tagged a very nice well hit dead
deer. The bullet went through the deer but never expanded. I don’t know
what brand ammo. he was using.

I guess we are all back to the fact that caliber is only ONE of the factors involved. I just told him that the deer must have been eating some DITCH WEED! (Ditch Weed being marijuana plants that were planted everywhere back in WWII to be used for Hemp Rope.

[Griff]

Interesting coversation.

[bdhold]

there are probably more different projectiles available for .243 than any other caliber, from 65 to 190 gr, and it's super flat out to 300 yds with the lighter boat-tail bullets.

But certainly .308 is a better deer-hunting round.

[Streetstar]

Interesting coversation.

It gets occasionally lively around here -- I do believe both are valid levergun calibers thanks to the SAKO Finnwolf, BLR model 88, 99, etc too

despite my disdain for the 243, i almost bought a model 99 at the Ft Worth Cabelas in the caliber a couple of weeks ago

[BigSky56]

My hunting buddy's son uses a 243 for elk probably seen that young man kill 10 or so huge bulls and a bunch of world class wt bucks one shot kills that kid would indian up on them in dark timber. I have packed out moose and elk for a friend that uses a mdl 62 win 22, before the caliber police yell foul we have no caliber restrictions CF or RF on big game plus he is Cree and has been killing big game and waterfowl all his life with a 22. 2 guys I hunt with including the young mans father use a 250 savage and have taken numerous moose, elk, deer and speed goats.
The bigger is better and magnum craze has really grabbed alot of people having wrangled hunters for many years Ive seen some pizz poor shooting because of it and spent alot of time looking for animals. what it amounts to is people believe that the extra diameter and power makes up for not hitting the the sweet spot they get these ideas from marketing and gun magazines. Theres a ranch widow up here that uses a 30-30 for elk last count was 40 elk 150 gr bullets one shot kill she gets her shooting stool and watches a trail that comes down into her ranch at 85 shes a tough old bird by the time I get a phone call she usually has it gutted when her eyes went she put a scope on her rig. danny

[bdhold]

I don't think a .308 fits into any craze.

I know there are a lot of people hunting .243 in the south Texas scrub that should probably be hunting .270 or .308.

[Blackhawk]

I personally have never owned a .243, however, my cousin and I were hunting deer and both took shots at 3 deer. He had a .243 and I was using my 30-30. I shot 2xs dropping my first deer DRT with a frontal shot to the center of the chest and the other deer was a side shot that dropped the deer within 20 yrds. He shot his deer twice with his .243 and we followed the blood trail at least 300 yards and 2 hrs later. When we finally found the deer the holes were where they should have been, we are still not sure why that deer made it as far as it did. Needless to say he no longer uses the .243 and opted for a .30 cal.

Reminds me of an instance years ago. I was about 19 or 20 years old.
First day of the PA. Doe season. Got ants in my pants around 10:00
in the morning. Came across a guy trying to follow the blood trail of
a deer he hit around 7:30 that morning. Said he thought he made a good
hit on her with his Marlin 336 in 35 rem. Blood trail was next to nothing.
I helped him track for about another ½ hour. He got frustrated, said “screw
it I’m done, if you happen to find the deer it’s yours” With my young good
eyes and about 250 yards later, I found and tagged a very nice well hit dead
deer. The bullet went through the deer but never expanded. I don’t know
what brand ammo. he was using.

I like it when people bash the 30/30. I ask it they have one. If they say "yes", I ask if they want to sell it.

They have always said "no".

Johnny

[Blaine]

My hunting buddy's son uses a 243 for elk probably seen that young man kill 10 or so huge bulls and a bunch of world class wt bucks one shot kills that kid would indian up on them in dark timber. I have packed out moose and elk for a friend that uses a mdl 62 win 22, before the caliber police yell foul we have no caliber restrictions CF or RF on big game plus he is Cree and has been killing big game and waterfowl all his life with a 22. 2 guys I hunt with including the young mans father use a 250 savage and have taken numerous moose, elk, deer and speed goats.
The bigger is better and magnum craze has really grabbed alot of people having wrangled hunters for many years Ive seen some pizz poor shooting because of it and spent alot of time looking for animals. what it amounts to is people believe that the extra diameter and power makes up for not hitting the the sweet spot they get these ideas from marketing and gun magazines. Theres a ranch widow up here that uses a 30-30 for elk last count was 40 elk 150 gr bullets one shot kill she gets her shooting stool and watches a trail that comes down into her ranch at 85 shes a tough old bird by the time I get a phone call she usually has it gutted when her eyes went she put a scope on her rig. danny

Danny, I agree with everything you say regarding the people that have lived the life since they were kids, and have dozens, if not hundreds of animals under their belts....I'm not ashamed to admit that while I have a solid, broad-based knowledge of weapons, I have never had the inclination to be a master hunter, and with my physical disabilities I'm not likely to acquire those skills in my lifetime. I wish my peers, contemporaries, and beginners would realize that not everyone is able to use light caliber weapons and reliably take big game. In my case, I can't walk more than a couple hundred yards, and expect to drag an animal out of the woods. My personal preference is that a 30wcf is about the lightest caliber I would care to use on a big game animal. It's my personal opinion that a 30wcf is superior to a .243 for deer and big game. I take out my 30wcf, the '06, the.444 and the 45-70, and this fall, the new to me .308.... If I were starving, and needed the meat, I'd sneak across the highway at night, get in the Ft Lewis woods, hunker down next to a salt block that I've already placed, and make a 10 yard head shot with a CB Long

[3leggedturtle]

I personally have never owned a .243, however, my cousin and I were hunting deer and both took shots at 3 deer. He had a .243 and I was using my 30-30. I shot 2xs dropping my first deer DRT with a frontal shot to the center of the chest and the other deer was a side shot that dropped the deer within 20 yrds. He shot his deer twice with his .243 and we followed the blood trail at least 300 yards and 2 hrs later. When we finally found the deer the holes were where they should have been, we are still not sure why that deer made it as far as it did. Needless to say he no longer uses the .243 and opted for a .30 cal.

Reminds me of an instance years ago. I was about 19 or 20 years old.
First day of the PA. Doe season. Got ants in my pants around 10:00
in the morning. Came across a guy trying to follow the blood trail of
a deer he hit around 7:30 that morning. Said he thought he made a good
hit on her with his Marlin 336 in 35 rem. Blood trail was next to nothing.
I helped him track for about another ½ hour. He got frustrated, said “screw
it I’m done, if you happen to find the deer it’s yours” With my young good
eyes and about 250 yards later, I found and tagged a very nice well hit dead
deer. The bullet went through the deer but never expanded. I don’t know
what brand ammo. he was using.

I like it when people bash the 30/30. I ask it they have one. If they say "yes", I ask if they want to sell it.

They have always said "no".

Johnny

I must have dealt with these same idjuts. Even after seeing some my 3-4" peep sighted 200 yard groups they still told me a 30/30 was lucky to hit a deer that far. I asked them if they would like to go out 5-600 yards and stand there and catch a bullets for me. They declined, I even offered to buy the beer that night. I tell ya, you just can't work with some people.

[44shooter]

I grew up hunting deer with hounds. Based on what I have seen, the 243 is iffy. The 308 is pretty ideal. These aren't very big deer, but they know something's after them. it makes a difference.

With hounds maybe , but not when you're sitting in a tree waiting on them and they're unaware !

True, at least with a decent bullet. Yes, ambushing deer is totally different and that is how the vast majority are taken. But for me, this makes the 243 marginal as a all around deer round. As long as I can shoot something bigger, I will. I'm no magnum fan either. Any standard high power round from .26 to about .33 seems about right as an all around deer round.

Obviousely you're not an advocate of hunting from treestands since you call it anbushing !

Now with that being said I see no way you can call chasing deer with hounds hunting and treestand hunting ambushing . I mean generally the way the doggers do it here in Virginia is set up where they think the deer will come and wait for the dogs to push then . So if I'm ambushing them when they walk by , whattya call it when the dogs push them by ?

Sounds like ambushing as you say I'm doing !

I'm not disparaging stand hunting in any way. I called it ambushing because it fits the definition. The hunter waits for and attacks the prey from concealment. It is a legimate hunting method that I use.

Most modern doghunters are not concealed on stand and their prey is very aware that they are being persued. It is as ethical as dogging hogs or rabbits, or treeing coons, cats, bears or squirrels.

My point was shooting a pumped up deer trying to evade dogs is different than shooting a deer munching on acorns from a tree. IMO the 243 or any other 6mm does not cut the mustard in that environment.

[n2t]

I've been using my .243 for antelope, mulies, white tail, and a few of 86ers texas hog hunts. I've never had anything to complain about and the last time I went with the 35rem, I felt I would have done better with the .243 yet again. IMHO for deer/hog sized game on down, the 243 is a great round, for deer/hog sized game and up, the 308 has an advantage.

[BigSky56]

Blaine It is hard for people that dont live in a rural area to stay on top their game with shooting you can get rusty in your reflexes but the difference in caliber I dont buy, whats the difference in a 25 cal and a 45 cal you have to be a 1/4" better shot is all. What I believe is most hunters that are born and raised with a firearm and live where they hunt have a better grasp of the animals anatomy and know just where to put the bullet and not count on shock and awe with a hail mary shot plus they know what the animal eats where it beds where the water is and where it rests up during the day depending on the weather. danny

[Blaine]

Blaine It is hard for people that dont live in a rural area to stay on top their game with shooting you can get rusty in your reflexes but the difference in caliber I dont buy, whats the difference in a 25 cal and a 45 cal you have to be a 1/4" better shot is all. What I believe is most hunters that are born and raised with a firearm and live where they hunt have a better grasp of the animals anatomy and know just where to put the bullet and not count on shock and awe with a hail mary shot plus they know what the animal eats where it beds where the water is and where it rests up during the day depending on the weather. danny

I'll buy that (I don't have a magnum...don't need one) I will say that the last deer I shot was with a 300 grain 45-70, and it was just like in the roadrunner cartoon when the boulder dropped on the coyote...hammered to the ground. I never saw that before even with shot gun slugs....

[Concho]

I'm new here, but i'll weigh in on this discussion if you guys don't mind.

I have hunted whitetail in Texas for some 30 odd years, and have taken
at least one, sometimes as many as three each year. Most were taken
with a .243win. The only whitetail I ever lost was shot with a 22-250.

I shot a 308 in benchrest competition, but hunted with the caliber little.
I see nothing wrong with either. As it has already been pointed out in this
thread, shot placement is key with most any caliber. Personally, I would
think, based on my experiences, for those who prefer to take lung shots
the .243win may not be the best choice. Most of the deer i have taken
with the .243win were either neck or heart shots, and they never went
far.
To me, the 6mm class is fine for whitetail. I personally like 90-100 grain
bullets such as Sierra Gameking, or the 87 gr Hornady Interlock. I have
used these bullets with great success. Loaded with powders such as
H4350, Varget or Re17,IMR4895 and driven around 2800-3000fps, this
caliber is an incredibly flat-shooter. I have taken shots on deer/hogs
sucessfully many times over the years in excess of 250 yards.

I see nothing wrong with either. I'd likely pick the .243win just because I
have hunted with it so much over the years.

[cshold]

Thanks & good post Concho,
Welcome aboard

[n2t]

For deer in the .243win, I've had great success with the 100grn hornady interloc, 87grn hornady boat tailed hollow point, and 85grn sierra game king boat tailed hollow point. All are designed as med game rounds and work very well in that capacity.

[Bridger]

I'm not disparaging stand hunting in any way. I called it ambushing because it fits the definition. The hunter waits for and attacks the prey from concealment. It is a legimate hunting method that I use.

Most modern doghunters are not concealed on stand and their prey is very aware that they are being persued. It is as ethical as dogging hogs or rabbits, or treeing coons, cats, bears or squirrels.

My point was shooting a pumped up deer trying to evade dogs is different than shooting a deer munching on acorns from a tree. IMO the 243 or any other 6mm does not cut the mustard in that environment.

I think it would be fair to say a whole lot of the dog hunting that goes on for deer here in Bama is done with Buckshot. At least from what I know of it. I haven't personally been yet, but next season.....I certainly plan to.

[nemhed]

Are we still talking about this? I vote .308. I love shooting mine, I love the bullet selection available, I love shooting subsonic Trailboss loads out of it. I love shooting milk jugs with it 300yds away with cheap 150gr FMJ bullets. Did I say I love the rifle/round? Personally, I don't need the middle ground between .223 and .308, but I do think .243 would be great for anything from whitetails on down to varmints with proper bullet selection and shot placement of course. But, heck, I don't think anybody said anything about "need".

[n2t]

Which reminds me..there's a very nifty trailboss load for the .243 that could get pretty interesting for varmints. a 100grn cast bullet at about 1800fps..I may have to consider that one...

[2ndovc]

For deer in the .243win, I've had great success with the 100grn hornady interloc, 87grn hornady boat tailed hollow point, and 85grn sierra game king boat tailed hollow point. All are designed as med game rounds and work very well in that capacity.

I was a .243 skeptic until I saw what this kid did to a large boar and a neck shot. Bang, down and a huge pool of blood.
I've seen some very inaccurate, really expensive rifles in the .243 that couldn't take a large wood chuck
but I was impressed that day!

jb

[Gunnin'Wreck]

The great thing about a thread like this, is that both sides are right. The 243 will kill any whitetail that has ever walked. I suspect it would kill an elephant if you wanted to machine a tough solid bullet for it. After all, a lot of the old elephant hunters used the 6.5x54 M-S and it is only slightly larger than a 243.

I have killed deer with both calibers, and based on that experience, I think the 243 is a caliber for disciplined, expert hunters that will only take shots where the presentation is good (near broadside) and good enough shots to put the bullet precisely where it needs to be (e.g. neck shot). As the presentation gets worse, the deer get larger, and the ranges get longer, the 308 starts to have an advantage. I am not saying that you do not have to place your bullets precisely with the 308, you most certainly do. What I am saying is that when the presentation is bad, say the buck of a lifetime quartering away from you, with the 308 and a premium hunting bullet, you are still in business. You may or may not be with a 243, depending on the size of the deer.
In my mind that is the difference, pure and simple. The 243 is fine for the majority of deer hunting, but there are times when the 308 has an advantage.

[n2t]

There are definitely times the 243 is not the gun of choice. Going on a bear hunt in a few weeks, won't be taking the .243. I have a 300 savage and a 35 remington and I think both are superior on black bear. I'll be honest though, if the buck of a lifetime came by, I would feel pretty good with the .243 in my hands. I need a like button for the above comment, that was a great hog hunt. I used a 35 rem the year after that, and though shot placement was good, bullet selection was not. If I only had those two exp. to go on, I would choose the .243 and the 357mag as a better hog gun than a 35rem. But I know it was a bullet issue, and now I have full trust in that 35rem for next time. Shot placement is king..but a great shot with a bad bullet still gives bad results, choose the right bullet for the game at hand.